mikempb 0
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Thanks brother
I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.
QuoteI was working that day Im a NYC Fireman and to be honest I wish they would rebuild already, I want to move on and see something positive down there. I put way too many hrs digging and finding pieces of people and people in pieces Lets put something good down there to keep NY strong
wow...
I'll think about you and all of the toil and agonizing work you put in while there, Mike. I'll think about all of those that prayed, those that struggled, and those that fell...
I am of the opinion of 'lest this day be forgotten...' I believe it is better to honor those gone, and remember the past to make the future better. I'm not harboring hatred, here -I don't want those thousands of peoples' deaths, and the back-breaking physical and emotional pain that people like Mike lived through, to be lost on someone like me that didn't happen to live in that city at the time.
This past Saturday I was at the funeral and graveside of a 24 year old man who's life was cut short needlessly.
I can feel the history in places like that...and not in some TV series psychic way, but maybe more that the history is so abundant, and so tangible in places like that -here is where they stood; here is where their families grieved; there is the evidence of the cross they bore... that it does leave an impression.
My brother visited ground zero while it was still a real mess...he had just gotten out of basic and AIT over there on the east coast. He didn't speak about it much; just that it was amazing.
I don't seek acceptance from anyone to have whatever emotion I might when I do see for myself, but I was curious if anyone else had a strong feeling about it.
Good posts.
~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.
QuoteI was there 2 weeks ago. My mom came out to visit and I took her down there when we were in the city. I did see a lot of emotion there. Some crying, some anger, some in just utter awe. It's kinda hard to imagine the amount of damage and the size of it until you see it in person. All the debris is gone but on some of the neighboring buildings. The scrape marks on the concrete buildings. For my mother I could tell it got to her and she was moved in several ways.
Looking at the web cams, which admittedly aren't good enough to really see people standing there, I guess I was thinking that ground zero would be more of a passing thing and there wouldn't be tourists 'gathered' on that spot any more. Interesting. I guess NYC being such a huge tourist city I should have expected that.
My cousin works in Manhattan and was there that day. I haven't talked to him since before then...I should give him a call and see if he'd meet us for lunch or something. If he wants to tell us about it, I'm sure he will. I know he wasn't IN either of the towers that day, but I do know that his apartment or office (I don't recall which) was right there in Manhattan and in full view...
~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.
QuoteLooking at the web cams, which admittedly aren't good enough to really see people standing there, I guess I was thinking that ground zero would be more of a passing thing and there wouldn't be tourists 'gathered' on that spot any more. Interesting. I guess NYC being such a huge tourist city I should have expected that.
I believe it was on the north end of the site that there is a fence with a lot of pictures with a time line of the events that day. Tourist come by to see the sight. The only thing that gets on my nerves are some of the people selling cheap Chinese bullshit souvenirs on the sidewalk around the sight like your at a damn Yankee's game.
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
QuoteThe only thing that gets on my nerves are some of the people selling cheap Chinese bullshit souvenirs on the sidewalk around the sight like your at a damn Yankee's game.
I could see how hocking keychains and plastic snowglobes right out on the street might seem a bit degrading.
I thought that I read about a museum right near the site...I'm thinking some nicer things in a gift shop sounds a little classier.
Joe is from NY, and his mom bought his sister a huge 3' x 5' black and white of the towers that is framed on her wall. It looks really nice. I was thinking that perhaps we might find a smaller black and white to frame and hang with our Yogi Berra limited charcoal print (that's been in the tube it came in for 7 years now
. I really need to pick a frame and a safe spot to hang that. 
) Anyhoo, I am not all that certain that Joe will want to go to ground zero. He was raised in NY (Long Island and then they had to move to Jersey) and it's hard to say. He might not want to see it at all. If not, that's his choice and I'm sure we'll find other things to occupy us for 4 days.
I'll ask him when I surprise him with this trip. That'll be 23 days from now...dang it's hard to keep in a surprise this big!
~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.
QuoteDoes it still illicit emotion from people (outside of New Yorkers, who understandably will always have a firmer attachment)?
Haven't been to NYC since '98, so I couldn't say for sure. But I have stood out on Lexington Green, where the Brits opened fire on the Minute Men. And I've stood on top of Cemetary Ridge at Gettysburg and looked down the long hillside General Pickett's division tried to march up as they were cut to pieces. They were both very sobering, even after a century or two. In Europe people still visit places like Dachau and Auschwitz. And don't forget the Arizona Monument at Pearl Harbor. I don't know if I believe in people's spirits hanging around these places, but most of them - including Ground Zero - very definitely have a lot of human remains that have never been recovered beneath their peaceful surfaces. History changed all of these places, and when they became part of our history, they became part of us.
I took a week long tour of Washington DC and Gettysburg when I was 12. I kinda wish I had gone when I was older, or at least had studied my US history a little better prior. Adding to my lack of understanding was a traumatic knock to the head months after I got back, and much of my memory of that week is gone, unfortunately...
I remember being hot and feeling queasy when they were graphically explaining 'bettlefield medicine' and how the old 'saw-bones' would literally...saw bones.
It was probably 100 degrees and way too much humidity, and this guy was just pouring on the graphic descriptions to us 7th graders. I didn't get as much out of that trip as I would have liked.~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.
There is a small Tribute/Museum on across the street on the south side of the site. Free to visit, a $10 donation is suggested.
They have boxes and boxes of Kleenex, you'll need some.
Two things really set me off in there.
One was a Red Cross worker's ID badge on a lanyard. The lanyard was covered with pins from around the world showing support, and the clip in the end was FULL of laminated photos of loved ones lost.
The other thing was one handwritten letter on a huge wall of cards from friends and family of loved ones. The one handwritten letter that stuck out to me was in crayon, and from a young boy, I think about 7 or 8. It said something like "I miss you daddy, I hope you're having fun in heaven."
I'm not religious, but I lost it there, and was starting to be embarrassed about bawling like a baby. That was till someone handed me a box of Kleenex, and I noticed there wasn't a dry eye in the house.
Downstairs there is an exhibit where you can write your memories of the day down.
I highly recommend a visit.
They have boxes and boxes of Kleenex, you'll need some.
Two things really set me off in there.
One was a Red Cross worker's ID badge on a lanyard. The lanyard was covered with pins from around the world showing support, and the clip in the end was FULL of laminated photos of loved ones lost.
The other thing was one handwritten letter on a huge wall of cards from friends and family of loved ones. The one handwritten letter that stuck out to me was in crayon, and from a young boy, I think about 7 or 8. It said something like "I miss you daddy, I hope you're having fun in heaven."
I'm not religious, but I lost it there, and was starting to be embarrassed about bawling like a baby. That was till someone handed me a box of Kleenex, and I noticed there wasn't a dry eye in the house.
Downstairs there is an exhibit where you can write your memories of the day down.
I highly recommend a visit.
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.
South side...ok I'll check it out.
Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the info.
~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.
billvon 2,470
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AKA, JP - your one warning.
ExAFO 0
QuoteAKA, JP - your one warning.
Why does my cat follow me into the bathroom to watch me take a dump?
Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.
FlyingJ 0
While I understand why folks visiting NYC want to visit the site, and think they should if they want to, it makes me sick to see the touristy stuff that has popped up around it. I lived there until 2004 and only ever went to the site once when friends visiting wanted to go. It made me sick to see all of the vendors selling stuff like flip books with pictures of the planes hitting the buildings and t-shirts saying "I visited Ground Zero." Friends visiting always wanted to go. First I would take them over to Battery Park to see the remains of the sculpture that once stood in the WTC plaza, and then if they felt they wanted to see more I was happy to tell them how to get over to the site, but I never went back.
I suggest making sure you go through Battery Park to see the sculpture and I believe there is now an eternal flame as part of the memorial. It's a nice place to visit regardless, but in my experience the best way to pay homage to those lost without being confronted with the commercialization that has taken over at the site, especially if your husband would prefer to not visit the site.
I suggest making sure you go through Battery Park to see the sculpture and I believe there is now an eternal flame as part of the memorial. It's a nice place to visit regardless, but in my experience the best way to pay homage to those lost without being confronted with the commercialization that has taken over at the site, especially if your husband would prefer to not visit the site.
Killing threads since 2004.
QuoteWhile I understand why folks visiting NYC want to visit the site, and think they should if they want to, it makes me sick to see the touristy stuff that has popped up around it. I lived there until 2004 and only ever went to the site once when friends visiting wanted to go. It made me sick to see all of the vendors selling stuff like flip books with pictures of the planes hitting the buildings and t-shirts saying "I visited Ground Zero." Friends visiting always wanted to go. First I would take them over to Battery Park to see the remains of the sculpture that once stood in the WTC plaza, and then if they felt they wanted to see more I was happy to tell them how to get over to the site, but I never went back.
I suggest making sure you go through Battery Park to see the sculpture and I believe there is now an eternal flame as part of the memorial. It's a nice place to visit regardless, but in my experience the best way to pay homage to those lost without being confronted with the commercialization that has taken over at the site, especially if your husband would prefer to not visit the site.
I'll make sure we get to Battery Park, thanks.
~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.
DZJ 0
Can understand the feeling, but I wouldn't say it's the vendors' fault, or at least not solely their fault. Supply and demand and all that.QuoteIt made me sick to see all of the vendors selling stuff like flip books with pictures of the planes hitting the buildings and t-shirts saying "I visited Ground Zero."
ntrprnr 0
QuoteThey're all dead already. Get over it. Carrry onQuoteI just bring it up because I'll be there in about 30 days.
Does it still illicit emotion from people (outside of New Yorkers, who understandably will always have a firmer attachment)?
I wonder what I'm going to find there. I am curious what I'll feel on that spot...and I wonder what other people think of when they see or hear about 'that place'...
Live Ground Zero Web Cam.
It looks like any other construction site, doesn't it? -but it's not, and I am interested in what it will mean to be there in person.
Gota wonder if we're gonna say the same thing about you.
I still have friends down there who were never found. In my opinion, it's courtesy to pay your respects if you come in from out of town to visit.
_______________
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."
FlyingJ 0
QuoteCan understand the feeling, but I wouldn't say it's the vendors' fault, or at least not solely their fault. Supply and demand and all that.
While I hate that the vendors are there, I didn't really intend to put them blame/disgust on them. Honestly, I understand why they are there. They have something that people will buy. What really got me is that people would buy it. When I brought friends the one time, one of them pulled out a flip book of photos that they had purchased and it was filled with photos of planes hitting the buildings, people in midair after jumping out of the building, etc. It was awful.
I understand that different people remember things in different ways. To some, that might be an appropriate way to remember the events. I didn't get on her case about it, just simply asked her to put it away and save it for when she was no longer staying in my apartment.
Killing threads since 2004.
DZJ 0
Understand that too. There seems something terribly ghoulish and exploitative about photographs, and especially those of jumpers. I'd hope that if anything quite so traumatic and dramatic were to happen to my city (London) that it would be treated with the proper sensitivity and respect.
(London has had it's share of terrorist outrages, but with 7/7 happening largely underground, its somehow less symbolic and less traumatising. There isn't a 'ground zero' in quite the same way)
(London has had it's share of terrorist outrages, but with 7/7 happening largely underground, its somehow less symbolic and less traumatising. There isn't a 'ground zero' in quite the same way)
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