akarunway 1 #1 March 20, 2007 http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyid=2007-03-19T234643Z_01_N19319805_RTRUKOC_0_US-IRAQ-PROTESTS.xml&src=rss&rpc=22I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base283 0 #2 March 20, 2007 What is it about? take care, space Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #3 March 20, 2007 QuoteWhat is it about? Yeah. What he said. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #4 March 20, 2007 QuoteQuoteWhat is it about? Yeah. What he said. Its an uplifting report on all the unprecedented freedoms that modern Americans enjoy.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #5 March 20, 2007 QuoteWhat is it about? take care, space Free speech (or lack thereof).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #6 March 20, 2007 QuoteQuoteWhat is it about? take care, space Free speech (or lack thereof). Or the proper enforcement of laws such as disturbing the peace, disorderly conduct, or some similar constitutional law.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #7 March 20, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteWhat is it about? take care, space Free speech (or lack thereof). Or the proper enforcement of laws such as disturbing the peace, disorderly conduct, or some similar constitutional law. Yep. Their right to protest does not allow them to interfere with the rights of others who may not want to listen, or who want to go drive home. Market Street is a major thoroughfare right into the center of San Francisco.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #8 March 20, 2007 QuoteMarket Street is a major thoroughfare right into the center of San Francisco. Market Street is blocked every day. Do the police arrest drivers during rush hour? First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #9 March 20, 2007 QuoteYep. Their right to protest does not allow them to interfere with the rights of others who may not want to listen, or who want to go drive home. Market Street is a major thoroughfare right into the center of San Francisco. If you go to the 2nd page of the article, you find that they were protesting effectively in front of the stock exchange. They only got arrested once they started blocking traffic. So they weren't arrested for protesting, They were arrested for blocking the street 2 different things - one is fine and encouraged, the other is illegal This sounds like it was handled appropriately, before the jaywalkers caused an accident. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #10 March 20, 2007 QuoteQuoteMarket Street is a major thoroughfare right into the center of San Francisco. Market Street is blocked every day. Do the police arrest drivers during rush hour? I bet if 30 people went into the street to play a rousing game of hackey sack, they'd also be arrested. And if they were just playing on the street in front of the exchange they wouldn't be. how is this different? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penniless 0 #11 March 20, 2007 QuoteQuoteYep. Their right to protest does not allow them to interfere with the rights of others who may not want to listen, or who want to go drive home. Market Street is a major thoroughfare right into the center of San Francisco. If you go to the 2nd page of the article, you find that they were protesting effectively in front of the stock exchange. They only got arrested once they started blocking traffic. So they weren't arrested for protesting, They were arrested for blocking the street 2 different things - one is fine and encouraged, the other is illegal This sounds like it was handled appropriately, before the jaywalkers caused an accident. Better than Kent State, for sure. I guess the right to drive trumps the First Amendment every time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #12 March 20, 2007 QuoteQuoteYep. Their right to protest does not allow them to interfere with the rights of others who may not want to listen, or who want to go drive home. Market Street is a major thoroughfare right into the center of San Francisco. If you go to the 2nd page of the article, you find that they were protesting effectively in front of the stock exchange. They only got arrested once they started blocking traffic. So they weren't arrested for protesting, They were arrested for blocking the street 2 different things - one is fine and encouraged, the other is illegal This sounds like it was handled appropriately, before the jaywalkers caused an accident. Here is another interesting tid bit about "the" protest. There were actully two protests going on at the same time. One was the anit war group that made all the news and then the other group proesting against the anti war group. Did anyone hear on their news source about that group? Did anyone hear that the second group outnumbered the anti war group by 3 to 1?? HHmmm. and many think the news outlets are fair"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #13 March 20, 2007 QuoteI guess the right to drive trumps the First Amendment every time. One can exercise free speech without blocking traffic and breaking laws. I could also carry a banner and break into a storefront and steal VCRs. Carrying the banner would be protected, the last part wouldn't. How is it different? You could kidnap someone and tie them up and force them to listen to your speeches. Giving a speech is protected, kidnapping and forcing another to listen isn't. How is it different? You could pee all over the steps of city council while talking about how you don't like their tax code. The talk is protected, public urination isn't. How is it different? Or do you just want to throw out some catch phrase again? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #14 March 20, 2007 QuoteDid anyone hear on their news source about that group? Did anyone hear that the second group outnumbered the anti war group by 3 to 1? 2 questions 1 - did the second group break any laws like blocking traffic? 2 - did the second group force the first group into traffic? if either is yes, then I have an issue with the second group also ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #15 March 20, 2007 QuoteQuoteDid anyone hear on their news source about that group? Did anyone hear that the second group outnumbered the anti war group by 3 to 1? 2 questions 1 - did the second group break any laws like blocking traffic? 2 - did the second group force the first group into traffic? if either is yes, then I have an issue with the second group also I agree with you. My point was aimed more at fair reporting than anything else. If that second group have broken the law then they should go to jail too. If they had I bet they would have been in the news and not in a supportive context"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #16 March 20, 2007 Quote How is it different? It's different because many people think "The Man" is always trying to keep people down... It seems to stem from an overinflated sense of self-importance. This world needs business to thrive. To snarl traffic because of your "cause celebre du jour" is to snarl others' right to free movement, free buisness transactions, and right to pursue happiness. In such a case you should be penalized. You do have the right to free speech, but, if while in the process of exercising that right, you break a law that is not related to or covered under the 1st Amendment, you're still subject to penalty. Face it--the vast majority of the world doesn't give a fuck about you. You're one of five Billion on this planet. The main thing I liked in this story is that the protestors did not affect the trading floor's business.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #17 March 20, 2007 Quoteyou do have the right to free speech, but, if while in the process of exercising that right, you break a law that is not related to or covered under the 1st Amendment, you're still subject to penalty. exactly - it's the difference between a group effectively exercising their right to speak and a criminal mob doing anything but that and pretending it's ok "But your honor, we held the sign on the overpass and asked cars to honk if they supported us. They weren't honking so we thought they didn't see us. Obviously, the 1st amendment means I had the right to drop those rocks on those windshields so people would look up and read my message" ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
willard 0 #18 March 20, 2007 Right to free speech does not give one the right to yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater. The right to swing your fist stops where the other guys nose starts. Sure we have rights. Along with those rights comes the responsibility to use them wisely. A lot of people don't seem to understand that connection. Edit to add: There are still many countries where those protester would have been shot on sight. I'd say we have it pretty good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #19 March 20, 2007 While I'm not making a judgment on this case since I don't know complete details about it. I do disagree with this: QuoteThere are still many countries where those protester would have been shot on sight. I'd say we have it pretty good. We shouldn't be comparing ourselves to those countries worse than us. We should be comparing ourselves to those countries better than us, and to strive to better ourselves in the long run.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penniless 0 #20 March 20, 2007 Quote There are still many countries where those protester would have been shot on sight. I'd say we have it pretty good. SURE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #21 March 20, 2007 QuoteQuote There are still many countries where those protester would have been shot on sight. I'd say we have it pretty good. SURE Hmmm...36 years ago...yep, we're still evil because of things that happened more than a quarter century ago... Grasping at straws, sparky?Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #22 March 20, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote There are still many countries where those protester would have been shot on sight. I'd say we have it pretty good. SURE Hmmm...36 years ago...yep, we're still evil because of things that happened more than a quarter century ago... Grasping at straws, sparky? What, exactly, has changed in the intervening 36 years? You may be in your twenties, but there are LOTS of us that remember Kent State very very well indeed and see history repeating itself.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #23 March 20, 2007 Most of you are missing the shades of grey which actually governs the legal status of what occurred. The cases are far too numerous to cite, but there is a degree to which a limited amount of public inconvenience or nuisance must be tolerated for non-commercial, "First Amendment" freedom of expression like public demonstrations. Demonstrators exercising non-commercial free speech may temporarily interfere with thoroughfares up to a point, and police have the right to keep thoroughfares open to transit, up to a point. There is no one solid rule that applies to all cases. When these types of cases go to court, the judge has the unenviable task of weighing the two conflicting interests in balance. The cases are very fact specific, meaning that each case must be decided on a case by case basis. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #24 March 20, 2007 Quote...You may be in your twenties... Thirties, actually. But I stil get carded for R-rated movies.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #25 March 20, 2007 QuoteHmmm...36 years ago...yep, we're still evil because of things that happened more than a quarter century ago... You're evading the point by mischaracterizing it. History to a nation is like memory to a person. If we fail to remember how and why we were burned in the past, we will fail to be vigilant against the same thing burning us in the present, or in the future. Just as the WWII generation is correct to remind us of the dangers of unchecked foreign dictatorships, the Vietnam War generation is correct to recognize the excesses of the US government when we see it, and to guard, warn, teach, write and act against it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
