AMerican MArrieds

[miked10270 0]

Just a small query for the "Jonathans" (I'm feeling historical today).

What's the thing with married womens' surnames in America - particularly their insistence on retaining their maiden surname as a sort of middle name or precursor surname?

It seems that they get quite irate if their maiden name is omitted.

So, what is it that makes, for example; "Hillary Rob'em Clinton" cling so desperately to their original name?

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[narcimund 0]

Why does retaining one's name seem "desperate" to you?

Why do you care?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[miked10270 0]

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Why does retaining one's name seem "desperate" to you?

It's not the fact they retain their name that strikes me as desperate, it's the desperate way they insist on the name being used.

Why do you care?

[Michele 1]

From as far as I can tell, Mike, it's not a legal requirement, rather more a personal preference.

It stems from when women were considered their husband's property - and thus took their name. Once that issue was cleared up, women still took their husband's name because of the legalities involved (i.e. married tax returns, children, et cetera).

However, some women, especially in the last 30 years or so (since the feminist movement, at least), women retain their maiden name as a sort of status indicator - it's a subtle way to remind people that they are their own person, and have also joined up with a husband as a team.

For those who insist on it, to me it seems more of the feminist movement issue rather than anything else.

Also, keep in mind that some women achieve educational goals, i.e. doctorates and masters, and those were awarded in their maiden name. It's a pain in the ass to change their degrees into their maiden name (if it can be done), and so some women retain their maiden name for this reason. That was the case with one of my professors - she was born Liang, married to Chen, and is listed as Liang on her degrees. She goes by Chen, but is listed in the college directory and catalog as Liang.

I don't know if this answers your question, and I also don't know if the information is absolutely accurate; but that's my take on things, from both experience and a woman's POV.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[narcimund 0]

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It's not the fact they retain their name that strikes me as desperate, it's the desperate way they insist on the name being used.

I think your sense of what "desperate" means must be very different from mine.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Remster 26]

In Quebec, the law is now that spouse keep their original names. If you want to change it to your spouse's, its an offical name change procedure.

I like it that way. The whole name change seems pretty feudal to me.

Remster

[Nightingale 0]

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It's not the fact they retain their name that strikes me as desperate, it's the desperate way they insist on the name being used.

If it's your name, what's wrong with insisting people use your name rather than the wrong name? Why would you think that someone would be okay with being called something that isn't their name? How is someone named Robert insisting "don't call me Bob." any different from Katie Smith insisting that you don't call her Katie Jones? Bob isn't his name, and Jones isn't hers.

Other reasons, beyond the ones previously mentioned by others: Sometimes his last name just won't work. For example, I had a college friend with the last name of Wiener (pronounced Wee-ner). He married an elementary school teacher. You really think she's going to change her name to "Mrs. Wiener"? That's a classroom-management problem waiting to happen.

[Gawain 0]

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So, what is it that makes, for example; "Hillary Rob'em Clinton" cling so desperately to their original name?

In the US, there isn't any legal framework around women using their husband's name. My wife took my name, but not in every aspect. She kept a lot of her personal assets (401K, IRA, etc) in her own name out of mere convenience.

In Senator Clinton's case, the use of her maiden name is much the same overall. However, for her politically, it's an attempt to generate a bit of separation from her former-President husband.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[narcimund 0]

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it's an attempt to generate a bit of separation from her former-President husband.

I don't think the OP is actually concerned with people keeping their names at all. I think he just got a little thrill from typing "Rob'em" instead of "Rodham" and he needed a post to do it in.

Go miked10270! You got a real zinger in there.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[peregrinerose 0]

Desperate isn't the right word at all. I was a doctor for 4 years, then got married. 6 months later I changed practices but still in the area. Many docs (or attorneys or any other profession along those lines where name makes them accessable to patients) keep whatever name they got their degree with, even with marriages (or divorces). I did change my name, but it was a PITA for patients.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[billvon 2,476]

>So, what is it that makes, for example; "Hillary Rob'em Clinton" cling so
>desperately to their original name?

Same reason I "cling" to my last name I suppose. Computer systems regularly try to shorten it to "Novak." Indeed, when my great-grandfather came to this country, he put down "Novak" as his name to avoid getting too much attention as a funny-names foreigner; my father had it legally changed back to our original family name, von Novak.

>It seems that they get quite irate if their maiden name is omitted.

I don't get irate if that prefix is omitted - but I do fix it when it happens. I recently became "Novak" again for a few months due to the latest DMV screwup.

[Lindsey 0]

Of course, Hillary remained Hillary Rodham after they were married. Here in Arkansas, though, it didn't sit well with a lot of people for a woman not to take her husband's name. She changed it to Hillary Rodham Clinton after Bill lost his re-election campaign for governor.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[miked10270 0]

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...got a little thrill from typing "Rob'em" instead of "Rodham"... Go miked10270! You got a real zinger in there.

Aww... C'Mon... What happened to playing the subject rather than the poster. If it helps, I apologise for sticking my tongue in my cheek during my original post.

My reason for asking was that when I called someone (for example) "Hillary Clinton" during an E-correspondence, I got the reply that it was "Hillary RODHAM Clinton" (their typing)! In effect, how dare I omit the correspondent's MAIDEN name.

I thought this a bit extreme (although obviously not as extreme as being disrespectful to Saint Hillary - in future I'll confine that to Dubbie & Tony B'Liar). Hence my original question about folk clinging to their whole name, maiden & married and insisting on the use of both.

Mike.

PS: Nice to be called a Right-winger again. It makes a nice change from being accused of being a pinko.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[narcimund 0]

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My reason for asking was that when I called someone (for example) "Hillary Clinton" during an E-correspondence, I got the reply that it was "Hillary RODHAM Clinton" (their typing)! In effect, how dare I omit the correspondent's MAIDEN name.

You're reading an awful lot of meaning and emotion into a bit of capitalization. You're inferring (A) that it's the "maidenness" of the missing part that's important and (B) that capitalization implies desperation rather than simply irritation or exasperation.

Sounds to me like they objected to you shortening their name, not necessarily to you omitting a particular part.

My friend Philip would be irritated or exasperated if you called him "Phil". He might even capitalize the missing letters in his response. I don't think it's fair to say he's desperate about it however. I also doubt he's got some kind of intense focus on the last two letters of his name. It's just polite to use the whole thing if that's how he likes it.

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PS: Nice to be called a Right-winger again. It makes a nice change from being accused of being a pinko.

Who called you a right-winger?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Tonto 1]

It must really, really suck to spend 30 years or so building an identity, perhaps have been published, and then to have to go and change your name.

If I ever get married I'd be 100% comfortable with my wife keeping her name. I fell in love with her when she had that name. It'll always be good enough for me.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[NCclimber 0]

Here's an article on the subject.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2294/is_2002_March/ai_91475113

What is the accepted practice when a couple marries, where both husband and wife come to the alter with hyphenated last names?

Mr. and Mrs. John-Jacob-Jingleheimer-Schmidt?

[Tonto 1]

The article you posted is about those who use hyphenated names.

I said if I get married that my wife would keep her name. There would be no hyphenating.

I have my name, and she has hers. That's worked great for our whole lives. I think it can continue to work.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Remster 26]

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I have my name, and she has hers. That's worked great for our whole lives. I think it can continue to work.

Hear hear.

Remster

[NCclimber 0]

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The article you posted is about those who use hyphenated names.

I wasn't refuting your post. It was just the last post when I replied.

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I said if I get married that my wife would keep her name. There would be no hyphenating.

I have my name, and she has hers. That's worked great for our whole lives. I think it can continue to work.

t

What will your children's last name(s)?

[Tonto 1]

Ah. So now it's about kids? I thought it was about being married.

Well, that would be the children's call, wouldn't it?

I'm sure as intelligent, responsible adults they'd be able to think of something. While they grow up, I think it's prudent they keep the name of the woman who carried them to term, rather than the name of the man who came up with half the plan.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[NCclimber 0]

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Ah. So now it's about kids? I thought it was about being married.

Well, that would be the children's call, wouldn't it?

I'm sure as intelligent, responsible adults they'd be able to think of something. While they grow up, I think it's prudent they keep the name of the woman who carried them to term, rather than the name of the man who came up with half the plan.

Is that a common practice among married parents where you live?

I ask because I've not heard this in the US.

[rehmwa 2]

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Ah.. While they grow up, I think it's prudent they keep the name of the woman who carried them to term, rather than the name of the man who came up with half the plan.

Is that a common practice among married parents where you live?

I ask because I've not heard this in the US.

by acting all femo-sensitive, it helps to meet chicks

If the man came up with 'half' maybe the child could have a hybrid name.....

if Ms. Nickopopalous had a boy from Mr. Rimaldi, the child could be young "Rinickopaldi"

think of the fun it could create in this, Oh so fair and senstive world we live in.

God, is everybody in the world living on a holodeck episode of Star Trek?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Tonto 1]

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by acting all femo-sensitive, it helps to meet chicks

I've spent over half a decade out of the dating game and in love with the same woman, so that's not my motivation.

Actually. when you look at the US stats on childbirth, the number of single parent families, the number of men that don't pay maintenance for their kids etc, it seems a little odd to name a child after the father.

In 1998, an estimated 42 percent of all custodial parents had never married, 38 percent had divorced, only 5 percent were widowed, and about 15 percent were separated.
“Census Bureau Facts for Features,” U.S. Census Bureau, www.census.gov, April 29, 1999.

Edit to add

An estimated 25 million (40 percent) children are growing up without fathers in the home.
“American Agenda,” World News Tonight with Peter Jennings, December 13, 1994.

About 13 million (50 percent) children without fathers in the home have never even been in their fathers’ homes.
“American Agenda,” World News Tonight with Peter Jennings, December 13, 1994.

Since the conversation switched from AMerican MArrieds to children, I thought these were valuable stats as to whether kids should have their fathers names.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[rehmwa 2]

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I've spent over half a decade out of the dating game and in love with the same woman, so that's not my motivation.t

That's just super.

"Rinickopaldi" or "Moonhubba" both are pretty neat last names - and a good name for a rock band

{I figure each couple can figure it out on their own. Stats don't really matter when it comes down to each couple and each birth. But, then, to me, neither does tradition.}

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,476]

>"Rinickopaldi" or "Moonhubba" both are pretty neat last names - and a
>good name for a rock band

And Brodsky-Chenfeld is a pretty good name for an RW type. I don't think most people care all that much about what someone's last name is. I'm happy to call people whatever they want to be called. (Although it took a few tries to be able to pronounce Nangavalli Ramasubramanian, a former co-worker.)