NCclimber 0 #26 March 1, 2007 Oooo, dodgeball Must be a day that ends with "y". Considering one in 37,500 women dies from cervical cancer each year, should we spend $360.00 on every woman to avoid these deaths, especially considering those same deaths can be avoided by women getting pap smears. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #27 March 1, 2007 QuoteConsidering one in 37,500 women dies from cervical cancer each year, should we spend $360.00 on every woman to avoid these deaths, especially considering those same deaths can be avoided by women getting pap smears. I vote yes. I agree it's reasonable for us to educate ourselves on the comparative preventive efficacy of the HPV vaccine versus pap smears, as well as the safety of the current formulation of the HPV vaccine. And yet, our society does not and will not require (even though it may strongly recommend) that all women get regular pap smears, nor will it mandate and assure women getting follow-up treatment if there's a suspicious finding. Logically, it's much simpler, and more universally effective, to mandate early vaccination for children as a prophylactic measure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #28 March 1, 2007 >should we spend $360.00 on every woman to avoid these deaths, >especially considering those same deaths can be avoided by women >getting pap smears. 1) It starts at $360 per person then declines, eventually reaching zero. 2) Pap smears are not prophylactic. They merely allow surgical intervention earlier; surgery is not a "cure." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #29 March 1, 2007 Quote>should we spend $360.00 on every woman to avoid these deaths, >especially considering those same deaths can be avoided by women >getting pap smears. 1) It starts at $360 per person then declines, eventually reaching zero. Eventually reaching zero? How so? Quotesurgery is not a "cure." No, but it's pretty effective at preventing cancer in those who have it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #30 March 1, 2007 QuoteQuote>should we spend $360.00 on every woman to avoid these deaths, >especially considering those same deaths can be avoided by women >getting pap smears. 1) It starts at $360 per person then declines, eventually reaching zero. Eventually reaching zero? How so? Quotesurgery is not a "cure." No, but it's pretty effective at preventing cancer in those who have it. Once you have the cancer, it can't be prevented; at best it hopefully can be treated. And that is, if the disease is detected and the treatment intiated in time. You're begging the question. Why rely on surgical treatment of an acquired disease rather than virtually non-invasive prophylaxis of the disease in the first place? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #31 March 1, 2007 >Eventually reaching zero? How so? Once the disease has been eradicated, you don't have to immunize. >No, but it's pretty effective at preventing cancer in those who have it. Surgery does not prevent cancer. It merely removes as much of it as possible and hopes the body's immune system can deal with the rest. This often renders women infertile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #32 March 1, 2007 Quote>Eventually reaching zero? How so? Once the disease has been eradicated, you don't have to immunize.Quote This is a world wide problem. Can you name another STD that has been completely eradicated? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peregrinerose 0 #33 March 1, 2007 Surgery can prevent cancer... it removes lesions that have a risk of turning into cancer... cell dysplasia in cervical cancer, polyps in colon cancer. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,648 #34 March 1, 2007 QuoteSurgery can prevent cancer... it removes lesions that have a risk of turning into cancer... cell dysplasia in cervical cancer, polyps in colon cancer. Maybe we should all have appendectomies too, that would prevent appendicitis. And have all women's breasts removed, to prevent breast cancer. And castrate all men to prevent testicular cancer. Yup, Surgery, a FAR better solution to disease prevention.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peregrinerose 0 #35 March 1, 2007 I didn't say surgery was better or worse than any other option.... someone posted that surgery doesn't prevent cancer, in some cases it does by removing specific lesions (not an entire organ) that often turn to cancer. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #36 March 1, 2007 QuoteDoesn't alcohol and smoking kill more people each year? Why are there no laws to protect us from drinking or smoking too much? We should ban all alcohol and cigarettes. Don't some of you claim that alcoholism is a deadly "disease"? Banning cigarettes or alcohol isn't comparable because they're not banning sex, they're just mandating a vaccine (and, IIRC, it's easily avoided on religous grounds). Drinking one beer does not cause liver disease. Smoking one cigarette does not cause lung cancer. Contracting HPV does result in having HPV, which may just cause warts or other cellular irregularities but may also lead to cancer. I imagine that if they came up with a vaccine against alcoholism or lung cancer, it would only be a matter of time before they were mandated as well. That's the society we live in. Scratch that. Alcoholism and lung cancer aren't comparable anyhow because they are not communicable diseases. Am I correct that the bill was passed with an exemption for those girls whose parents object on religous grounds? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflybella 0 #37 March 1, 2007 QuoteAm I correct that the bill was passed with an exemption for those girls whose parents object on religous grounds? This not directed at you, Dave, but WTF? WHY do I have to have GOD to be able to opt out of a vaccine mandate?! Is that cuz GOD will cure my HPV? Only a dwindling few states allow philosophical exemptions. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lindercles 0 #38 March 1, 2007 QuoteAm I correct that the bill was passed with an exemption for those girls whose parents object on religous grounds? There was no bill. It was an executive order straight from the governor. I was hoping that would be a topic of discussion in this thread, but it turned out better than I expected anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #39 March 1, 2007 QuoteQuoteSurgery can prevent cancer... it removes lesions that have a risk of turning into cancer... cell dysplasia in cervical cancer, polyps in colon cancer. Maybe we should all have appendectomies too, that would prevent appendicitis. And have all women's breasts removed, to prevent breast cancer. And castrate all men to prevent testicular cancer. Yup, Surgery, a FAR better solution to disease prevention. you're right, the schools should immediately implement your recommendation ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #40 March 1, 2007 QuoteQuoteAm I correct that the bill was passed with an exemption for those girls whose parents object on religous grounds? This not directed at you, Dave, but WTF? WHY do I have to have GOD to be able to opt out of a vaccine mandate?! Is that cuz GOD will cure my HPV? Only a dwindling few states allow philosophical exemptions. Bella is right, it should read "with an exemption for those girls whose parents object" The parent shouldn't have to explain why they object. Just that they do. THough it seems silly to me for a parent to object to a vaccination, it's the parents choice when the kid is a minor and the woman's choice when she gains adulthood. Get around the whole "it encourages sex" thing, by just making it part of the whole vaccination series of shots. SOP, "it's a vaccinnation for a disease", stop there, no need to elaborate. it's a silly mandate, they could just make the vaccine available and voluntary, and be done. Smarter parents will allow the vaccination and it wouldn't have to be a big production. This is jsut a PR stunt for the politician. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shell666 0 #41 March 1, 2007 QuoteOooo, dodgeball Must be a day that ends with "y". Considering one in 37,500 women dies from cervical cancer each year, should we spend $360.00 on every woman to avoid these deaths, especially considering those same deaths can be avoided by women getting pap smears. If a woman in your life died of cervical cancer, would you consider the $360 saved worth it ?? And your comment about the deaths being avoided by women getting pap smears is ridiculous. Bordering on extremely stupid, actually. 'Shell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #42 March 1, 2007 QuoteAnd your comment about the deaths being avoided by women getting pap smears is ridiculous. Bordering on extremely stupid, actually. How many women, who get annual pap smears, die from cervical cancer? Or is this an "extremely stupid" question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peregrinerose 0 #43 March 1, 2007 QuoteAnd your comment about the deaths being avoided by women getting pap smears is ridiculous. Bordering on extremely stupid, actually. The deaths from cervical cancer are primarily due to lack of pap smears and medical care. Even the American Cancer Society considers it a preventable cancer. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ExAFO 0 #44 March 1, 2007 This entire debate seems to be the Tinfoil Hat Brigade and the Religious Right (an oxymoron) sacraficing their childrens' health for paranoia and dogma. Morons.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peregrinerose 0 #45 March 1, 2007 I am not the religious right. Hell, I'm not religious at all, and I would not want this vaccine to be manditory. It doesn't make any sense for it to be manditory... it does not prevent cervical cancer... only prevents two types of HPV that have been linked to cervical cancer (and there more than 2 that have been linked to it). To me the risk outweighs the benefit, I want the right to make that decision. I also think that those who believe the benefit outweighs the risk should have the right to easily access the vaccination. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #46 March 1, 2007 QuoteTo me the risk outweighs the benefit, I want the right to make that decision. I also think that those who believe the benefit outweighs the risk should have the right to easily access the vaccination. silly person, why should anyone respect the wishes of adults and parents in the realm of medical treatment? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DrewEckhardt 0 #47 March 1, 2007 QuoteTexas Governor Rick Perry has issued an executive order (circumventing the legislature) mandating that 11 and 12 year old girls receive the new HPV vaccine before entering the 6th grade. The governor's office press release can be read here and a news story about the ramifications of the executive order here. Seems reasonable. As long as a government has an obligation to provide medical care for its citizens through things like Medicaid and state indigent care programs it should have some say in preventative measures which will reduce total expenditures. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #48 March 1, 2007 QuoteThis entire debate seems to be the Tinfoil Hat Brigade and the Religious Right (an oxymoron) sacraficing their childrens' health for paranoia and dogma. Morons. Thank goodness we have objective, even-keeled people like yourself to help us along our path. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #49 March 1, 2007 QuoteAs long as a government has an obligation to provide medical care for its citizens through things like Medicaid and state indigent care programs it should have some say in preventative measures which will reduce total expenditures. this is tacit approval that socialism is more important than individuality - doesn't seem a reasonable basis to draw a conclusion ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #50 March 1, 2007 QuoteAs long as a government has an obligation to provide medical care for its citizens through things like Medicaid and state indigent care programs it should have some say in preventative measures which will reduce total expenditures. The goverment provides food stamps (which can't be used for tobacco or alcohol) for a portion of the population, too. Does that allow it to prevent everyone from purchasing tobacco or alcohol? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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peregrinerose 0 #33 March 1, 2007 Surgery can prevent cancer... it removes lesions that have a risk of turning into cancer... cell dysplasia in cervical cancer, polyps in colon cancer. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #34 March 1, 2007 QuoteSurgery can prevent cancer... it removes lesions that have a risk of turning into cancer... cell dysplasia in cervical cancer, polyps in colon cancer. Maybe we should all have appendectomies too, that would prevent appendicitis. And have all women's breasts removed, to prevent breast cancer. And castrate all men to prevent testicular cancer. Yup, Surgery, a FAR better solution to disease prevention.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #35 March 1, 2007 I didn't say surgery was better or worse than any other option.... someone posted that surgery doesn't prevent cancer, in some cases it does by removing specific lesions (not an entire organ) that often turn to cancer. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #36 March 1, 2007 QuoteDoesn't alcohol and smoking kill more people each year? Why are there no laws to protect us from drinking or smoking too much? We should ban all alcohol and cigarettes. Don't some of you claim that alcoholism is a deadly "disease"? Banning cigarettes or alcohol isn't comparable because they're not banning sex, they're just mandating a vaccine (and, IIRC, it's easily avoided on religous grounds). Drinking one beer does not cause liver disease. Smoking one cigarette does not cause lung cancer. Contracting HPV does result in having HPV, which may just cause warts or other cellular irregularities but may also lead to cancer. I imagine that if they came up with a vaccine against alcoholism or lung cancer, it would only be a matter of time before they were mandated as well. That's the society we live in. Scratch that. Alcoholism and lung cancer aren't comparable anyhow because they are not communicable diseases. Am I correct that the bill was passed with an exemption for those girls whose parents object on religous grounds? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflybella 0 #37 March 1, 2007 QuoteAm I correct that the bill was passed with an exemption for those girls whose parents object on religous grounds? This not directed at you, Dave, but WTF? WHY do I have to have GOD to be able to opt out of a vaccine mandate?! Is that cuz GOD will cure my HPV? Only a dwindling few states allow philosophical exemptions. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindercles 0 #38 March 1, 2007 QuoteAm I correct that the bill was passed with an exemption for those girls whose parents object on religous grounds? There was no bill. It was an executive order straight from the governor. I was hoping that would be a topic of discussion in this thread, but it turned out better than I expected anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #39 March 1, 2007 QuoteQuoteSurgery can prevent cancer... it removes lesions that have a risk of turning into cancer... cell dysplasia in cervical cancer, polyps in colon cancer. Maybe we should all have appendectomies too, that would prevent appendicitis. And have all women's breasts removed, to prevent breast cancer. And castrate all men to prevent testicular cancer. Yup, Surgery, a FAR better solution to disease prevention. you're right, the schools should immediately implement your recommendation ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #40 March 1, 2007 QuoteQuoteAm I correct that the bill was passed with an exemption for those girls whose parents object on religous grounds? This not directed at you, Dave, but WTF? WHY do I have to have GOD to be able to opt out of a vaccine mandate?! Is that cuz GOD will cure my HPV? Only a dwindling few states allow philosophical exemptions. Bella is right, it should read "with an exemption for those girls whose parents object" The parent shouldn't have to explain why they object. Just that they do. THough it seems silly to me for a parent to object to a vaccination, it's the parents choice when the kid is a minor and the woman's choice when she gains adulthood. Get around the whole "it encourages sex" thing, by just making it part of the whole vaccination series of shots. SOP, "it's a vaccinnation for a disease", stop there, no need to elaborate. it's a silly mandate, they could just make the vaccine available and voluntary, and be done. Smarter parents will allow the vaccination and it wouldn't have to be a big production. This is jsut a PR stunt for the politician. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shell666 0 #41 March 1, 2007 QuoteOooo, dodgeball Must be a day that ends with "y". Considering one in 37,500 women dies from cervical cancer each year, should we spend $360.00 on every woman to avoid these deaths, especially considering those same deaths can be avoided by women getting pap smears. If a woman in your life died of cervical cancer, would you consider the $360 saved worth it ?? And your comment about the deaths being avoided by women getting pap smears is ridiculous. Bordering on extremely stupid, actually. 'Shell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #42 March 1, 2007 QuoteAnd your comment about the deaths being avoided by women getting pap smears is ridiculous. Bordering on extremely stupid, actually. How many women, who get annual pap smears, die from cervical cancer? Or is this an "extremely stupid" question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #43 March 1, 2007 QuoteAnd your comment about the deaths being avoided by women getting pap smears is ridiculous. Bordering on extremely stupid, actually. The deaths from cervical cancer are primarily due to lack of pap smears and medical care. Even the American Cancer Society considers it a preventable cancer. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #44 March 1, 2007 This entire debate seems to be the Tinfoil Hat Brigade and the Religious Right (an oxymoron) sacraficing their childrens' health for paranoia and dogma. Morons.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #45 March 1, 2007 I am not the religious right. Hell, I'm not religious at all, and I would not want this vaccine to be manditory. It doesn't make any sense for it to be manditory... it does not prevent cervical cancer... only prevents two types of HPV that have been linked to cervical cancer (and there more than 2 that have been linked to it). To me the risk outweighs the benefit, I want the right to make that decision. I also think that those who believe the benefit outweighs the risk should have the right to easily access the vaccination. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #46 March 1, 2007 QuoteTo me the risk outweighs the benefit, I want the right to make that decision. I also think that those who believe the benefit outweighs the risk should have the right to easily access the vaccination. silly person, why should anyone respect the wishes of adults and parents in the realm of medical treatment? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #47 March 1, 2007 QuoteTexas Governor Rick Perry has issued an executive order (circumventing the legislature) mandating that 11 and 12 year old girls receive the new HPV vaccine before entering the 6th grade. The governor's office press release can be read here and a news story about the ramifications of the executive order here. Seems reasonable. As long as a government has an obligation to provide medical care for its citizens through things like Medicaid and state indigent care programs it should have some say in preventative measures which will reduce total expenditures. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #48 March 1, 2007 QuoteThis entire debate seems to be the Tinfoil Hat Brigade and the Religious Right (an oxymoron) sacraficing their childrens' health for paranoia and dogma. Morons. Thank goodness we have objective, even-keeled people like yourself to help us along our path. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #49 March 1, 2007 QuoteAs long as a government has an obligation to provide medical care for its citizens through things like Medicaid and state indigent care programs it should have some say in preventative measures which will reduce total expenditures. this is tacit approval that socialism is more important than individuality - doesn't seem a reasonable basis to draw a conclusion ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #50 March 1, 2007 QuoteAs long as a government has an obligation to provide medical care for its citizens through things like Medicaid and state indigent care programs it should have some say in preventative measures which will reduce total expenditures. The goverment provides food stamps (which can't be used for tobacco or alcohol) for a portion of the population, too. Does that allow it to prevent everyone from purchasing tobacco or alcohol? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
