Al Gore, not practicing what he preaches

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

Quote

I'll put it this way - which is better for the environment: 1) teleconferencing to California from his home-base in Tennessee; or 2) flying via commercial air to California and back, but purchasing carbon offsets; or 3) flying to California via private jet and back, and purchasing more carbon credits?

Hard to say. Which method is likely to do a better job of getting his message out via the national media, a teleconference or a personal visit?

Aha! You wrote, "via the national media." In other words, getting the word out is more important from a national perspective than it is personal appearances. Are you saying that the national media gives him more coverage when he flies in someplace?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 2,406]

>Which method is likely to do a better job of getting his message out
>via the national media, a teleconference or a personal visit?

I hadn't thought much about him until he came to Qualcomm and I got to ask him a few questions. He impressed me with his understanding of the California ZEV mandate issues.

[NCclimber 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

If Gore can get such an effort kicked off even a few years sooner, he will have done far more for the planet than he has harmed it. I hope he succeeds.

I think he would be more likely to succeed if he set a good example.

Bullshit. You're an intelligent guy, so you have to recognize that making an Oscar winning documentary and running a huge PR campaign is more likely to get a message across than simply sitting at home and setting a good example. Ideally, he'd do the former WHILE setting a good example, but the truth is, if he had the most energy efficient house and transportation modes in the world, those who dislike him or disagree with his message would just find another reason to do so. Billvon sets a pretty damned good example. Gore doesn't. Which do you think has been a more effective agent for change by others? I'd wager Gore and "An Inconvenient Truth" have had the greater overall impact.

Blues,
Dave

Are you saying he's not a hypocrite?

Or is a matter of you excusing his hypocrisy because you support his message?

[livendive 8]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

If Gore can get such an effort kicked off even a few years sooner, he will have done far more for the planet than he has harmed it. I hope he succeeds.

I think he would be more likely to succeed if he set a good example.

Bullshit. You're an intelligent guy, so you have to recognize that making an Oscar winning documentary and running a huge PR campaign is more likely to get a message across than simply sitting at home and setting a good example. Ideally, he'd do the former WHILE setting a good example, but the truth is, if he had the most energy efficient house and transportation modes in the world, those who dislike him or disagree with his message would just find another reason to do so. Billvon sets a pretty damned good example. Gore doesn't. Which do you think has been a more effective agent for change by others? I'd wager Gore and "An Inconvenient Truth" have had the greater overall impact.

Are you saying he's not a hypocrite?

Or is a matter of you excusing his hypocrisy because you support his message?

Neither. If I'd meant to say one of those two things, I would have.

However I'll say now, in hopes of answering the next question before it's asked, that I do think he's being somewhat hypocritical and I agree that he should try to set a good example in addition to publically promoting change.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[ahegeman 0]

This is especially funny when you compare it to Bush's house in Crawford. His 4,000 sq ft home "has 25,000 gallons of rainwater storage, gray water collection from sinks and showers for irrigation, passive solar, geothermal heating and cooling"

Bush walks the environmentalist talk more than Gore does. I'm not even particularly fond of the guy's politics and I see the humor in that.

---------------------------------------------------------------
There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'.
--Dave Barry

[NCclimber 0]

And then there's John Edwards, who has been trying to make a name for himself as an advocate of the poor, while he puts the finishing touches on his 28,200 square foot home, which sits on 102 acres.

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

Aha! You wrote, "via the national media." In other words, getting the word out is more important from a national perspective than it is personal appearances. Are you saying that the national media gives him more coverage when he flies in someplace?

That's the lead to the story. "So and so was in Afghanistan today after his stops in Pakistan and Australia blah blah blah meeting with blah blah about blah blah. Film at 11:00". Why do you think Bush flies all over the country pushing his campaign donor payback proposals? "Free" publicity. No one's going to write an article about someone making a phone call.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I'd say that BV (and those like him) who just go and do it and don't make a huge stink about it, will effect more change in the world, and motivate others, than any 'documentary' film ever would.

10s of millions saw that film. It's hard for someone like Bill to compete (if he were). As it is, BV has had much more influence making a 'small stink' by posting here about what he's been doing. Merely waiting for neighbors and friends to see and ask would be very unproductive.

The question you really want to ask - how many of those 10s of millions were part of the choir, or at least the ones that give lip service to the notions while they continue to drive their fuel guzzling luxury vehicles? Like Bowling and many of the other Oscar winners, not sure how many converts are there.

[rehmwa 2]

I don't know, Al Gore puts out a movie and 10's of millions see it and 4 do something.

BV has a couple dozen visitors every year and each year, maybe 4 people take a lesson.

And how many BV types are out there that just do it because it's the right thing to do and not to be seen doing it because it's trendy?

I'll take personal example over hollywood production any day to effect long term behavior change.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

I don't know, Al Gore puts out a movie and 10's of millions see it and 4 do something.

What if those four are the Governors of four west coast states

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Quote

I don't know, Al Gore puts out a movie and 10's of millions see it and 4 do something.

What if those four are the Governors of four west coast states

Well, since he is kissing up to hollywood, we could definitely say 4 future governors of west coast states....

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,406]

>I'd say that BV (and those like him) who just go and do it and don't
>make a huge stink about it, will effect more change in the world, and
>motivate others, than any 'documentary' film ever would.

I'd say it takes both. Few people are going to emulate my ugly bilge-pump-and-storage-tank greywater system, even if they like the idea. But if enough plumbers/housing developers/architects/city planners/homeowners are exposed to the idea, then it's a LOT more likely that someone will check the "greywater" box on their contract with the builder (and it will be more likely that there will _be_ a greywater box on the page of options.) And a lecture tour/book will do that far more effectively than I ever could.

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I don't know, Al Gore puts out a movie and 10's of millions see it and 4 do something.

What if those four are the Governors of four west coast states

Well, since he is kissing up to hollywood, we could definitely say 4 future governors of west coast states....

Nah, he was using hollywood as his bitch. He was macking for those millions of viewers who had succumbed to the hype of the week long pre-oscar propaganda fest. Sort of a weird approach if you ask me though, trying to get an important point across to millions of people who deliberately tuned in to something of no real importance.

[sundevil777 94]

Quote

Quote

Quote

If Gore can get such an effort kicked off even a few years sooner, he will have done far more for the planet than he has harmed it. I hope he succeeds.

I think he would be more likely to succeed if he set a good example.

Bullshit. You're an intelligent guy, so you have to recognize that making an Oscar winning documentary and running a huge PR campaign is more likely to get a message across than simply sitting at home and setting a good example. Ideally, he'd do the former WHILE setting a good example, but the truth is, if he had the most energy efficient house and transportation modes in the world, those who dislike him or disagree with his message would just find another reason to do so. Billvon sets a pretty damned good example. Gore doesn't. Which do you think has been a more effective agent for change by others? I'd wager Gore and "An Inconvenient Truth" have had the greater overall impact.

Blues,
Dave

Bullshit. You're an intelligent guy, I agree that an in-person PR campaign is better at spreading the word than a teleconference PR campaign. However, it isn't required to get there by private jet, and leading by example (in terms of carbon footprint or however you measure it) is important when asking others to make changes/sacrifices in their lives.

I don't like to use analogies , but executives of corporations are often criticized when they ask for wage concessions/make layoffs and at the same time their own pay and bonuses go way up. I think that is a very fair criticism. Otherwise, you have to accept that the executives will be more effective at changing the direction of a company if they don't have to suffer like the ordinary guy. I don't think that goes over well - doesn't get much cooperation from the lower ranks.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

And how many BV types are out there that just do it because it's the right thing to do and not to be seen doing it because it's trendy?

That's what you want as the end goal - everyone does it on their own accord. But to get to that phase, you often have to go through a long process of having: 1) innovation 2) early adopters (BV) 3) proponents (Al Gore) 4) subsidation and/or mandated legislation 5) consumer acceptance 6) consumers no longer remember it the other way.

You can't skip over the early adopters - people like Bill have to actually use the stuff and work out the design in practical use. But typically this sort of change is not cost practical on a wide scale without government involvment, and that only comes if millions of people want it.

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

But to get to that phase, you often have to go through a long process of having: 1) innovation 2) early adopters (BV) 3) proponents (Al Gore) 4) subsidation and/or mandated legislation 5) consumer acceptance 6) consumers no longer remember it the other way.

You would often think that the innovators would be among the earliest adopters and proponents. Think Anna Nicole and Trim Spa - her fridge was filled with Slim Fast. Open advocate of one thing, but practitioner of something different.

Which tells me that there is a lot of money to be made off of this. And Al Gore is taking it in. Al Gore would be happy to cut his own pollution - once he has to pay for it himself or if required by law.

I think billvon put it nicely in a post a couple of months ago. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2578629#2578629

Quote

To some religious types that have gay affairs, homosexuality really IS an evil, vile thing that must be destroyed. Heck, look at how it destroyed Haggard's life! To them, if you could "legislate away" homosexuality, they would not be tempted, and their lives would be that much better/easier.

Of course, they caused themselves the problem, and needless to say this would have been no issue at all if they had chosen a path in life where they could accept their own sexuality. But not everyone thinks that way. They want to be church leaders and be delivered from temptation - through new laws if possible.

There is a parallel that I see - to some environmentalists, pollution really IS and evil, vile thing that must be stopped. To them, if you could legislate away pollution, they would not be tempted and their lives would be much better and easier.

They want to be environment leaders and be delivered from temptation - through new laws if possible.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 2,406]

>There is a parallel that I see - to some environmentalists, pollution really
> IS and evil, vile thing that must be stopped. To them, if you could
> legislate away pollution, they would not be tempted and their lives would
> be much better and easier.

I agree, partly. I think most people feel pollution is pretty evil (it does kill a lot of people) and they want it legislated away. Fortunately, much of it has been - LA is now between 75% and 90% cleaner than it was in the 70's, and fewer people are dying as a result. That's a good thing.

You are implying, though, that pollution is a "temptation" that people "fall into." I disagree there. The problem is not that they lust after a polluting car, the problem is that they lust after a big car - and right now that means polluting. One solution (a bad one) is to ban big cars. A better solution is to provide options so people can buy the big car and have it get 60mpg. Much of the efforts by environmentalists over the past 20 years have been to get incentives for companies to provide those options. We've seen some good progress in appliances - the Energy Star program is a great one, for example. We are just starting to scratch the surface of what we can do with vehicles. A PHEV version of a Suburban, for example, could get 60mpg (average) and still let Mrs. Soccer Mom get the big car she wants. This will allow people who want to make the choice to make the right one.

I don't really think there are people out there lusting after more NOx in the atmosphere, though.

[sundevil777 94]

Quote

There is a parallel that I see - to some environmentalists, pollution really IS and evil, vile thing that must be stopped. To them, if you could legislate away pollution, they would not be tempted and their lives would be much better and easier.

They want to be environment leaders and be delivered from temptation - through new laws if possible.

Quite right! There isn't a problem that can't be solve by proper application of a new law.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[sundevil777 94]

If skydivers wanted to improve their enviro friendliness, we would discourage the habit of making bonfires. For now, we can't skydive without burning lots of fuel, but we don't have to have an open fire for hours to partake in our hobby.

It really does piss me off when I see people burning leaves with open fires. I know people in rural areas that regularly burn much of their trash to reduce their waste disposal costs. They only thing limiting it are infrequent burn-bans.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

I don't really think there are people out there lusting after more NOx in the atmosphere, though.

I don't think so, either, despite the allegations of many.

It is, to me, an issue of people having less desire to be clean than they have desire to do things within their comfort level. It's why I mention Al Gore - spokespeople report that he is looking into greener energy options for his home. The problem is NOT that the options are not available - they are. The problem is that it is something that is not worth the trouble to him.

To me, that's the danger. I recycle. I have an ugly-ass car with good mileage. I burn fluorescent bulbs. In fact, I'm a cheap sonofabitch, which is why I do it. It's worth it to me. And I am HEAVILY lobbying my better half to set aside money for a solar array and on-demand water heaters to cut the power bills. She is starting to see the light.

I do it to save money and it ends up with great benefits. Being green means seeing green. (I need to copyright that. Actually, I declare my copyright on it now.)

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[sundevil777 94]

Darryl Hannah should be the more well known/recognized advocate for the movement instead of hypocrite Al.

Heard her interviewed by Sean Hannity. He gave her a lot of compliments for being true to her preaching, for her work in regards to human slavery, etc. She seems pretty reasonable, as far as environmental activists go.

Plus, she is a lot nicer to look at...her voice and laugh are sooo nice.
Splash was a great movie

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[freethefly 6]

Group: Gore a Hypocrite Over Power Bill
Feb 27, 9:40 PM (ET)
By KRISTIN M. HALL
NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) - Al Gore, a leading voice in the fight against global warming, is being called a hypocrite by a conservative group that claims his Nashville mansion uses too much electricity.

A spokeswoman for Gore said the former vice president invests in enough renewable energy to make up for the home's power consumption.

Gore's documentary film "An Inconvenient Truth," which chronicled his campaign against global warming, won an Academy Award on Sunday.

The next day, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research put out a news release saying Gore was not doing enough to reduce his own consumption of electricity. The group disputes whether global warming is a serious problem.

"We wanted to see if he was living by his own recommendations and walking the walk," said Drew Johnson, president of the think tank, which pushes for conservative economic issues.

Utility records show the Gore family paid an average monthly electric bill of about $1,200 last year for its 10,000-square-foot home.

The Gores used about 191,000 kilowatt hours in 2006, according to bills reviewed by The Associated Press spanning the period from Feb. 3, 2006, to Jan. 5. That is far more than the typical Nashville household, which uses about 15,600 kilowatt-hours per year.

His Nashville home is more than four times larger than the average new American home built last year - about 2,400 square feet, according to the National Association of Home Builders.

A spokeswoman for Gore said he purchases enough "green power" - renewable energy sources such as solar, wind and methane gas - to balance 100 percent of his electricity costs.

"Sometimes when people don't like the message, in this case that global warming is real, it's convenient to attack the messenger," Gore spokeswoman Kalee Kreider said.

Gore participates in a utility program that sells blocks of "green power" for an extra $4 a month. Gore purchases 108 such blocks every month, covering 16,200 kilowatt-hours and helping subsidize renewable energy sources.

Johnson said it's unclear whether global warming is caused by humans, and he said the threat outlined in Gore's documentary is exaggerated.

The think tank said that Gore used nearly 221,000 kilowatt hours last year and that his average monthly electric bill was $1,359. Johnson said his group got its figures from Nashville Electric Service.

But electric company spokeswoman Laurie Parker said the utility never got a request from the policy center and never provided them with any information.

Parker said Gore has been purchasing the "green power" for $432 a month since November. The Gore home is also under renovation to add solar panels, Kreider said.

Gore also owns homes in Carthage, Tenn., and in the Washington area.

Gore has said he leads a "carbon-neutral lifestyle." To balance out other carbon emissions, the Gores invest money in projects to reduce energy consumption around the globe, Kreider said.

"For every ton of carbon they emit, he offsets that by doing investments in renewable energy sources," Kreider said.

Johnson said those efforts were unconvincing.

"In general, I applaud his efforts to reduce energy consumption, but if he is going to be a spokesman for global warming, he has to be willing to make the same sacrifices," Johnson said.

Johnson said Gore's home has gas lamps lining the driveway, a heated pool and an electric gate, all of which would be easy to do without.

Kreider confirmed that Gore's home has a heated pool and an electric gate, but noted that the gate is important for security and that the driveway has only one gas lamp.

Focusing on Gore's personal electricity consumption misses the point of "An Inconvenient Truth," Kreider said, which is that governments and the public can work together to reduce emissions.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

I'm one of the people calling for action. Yet I drive a car and skydive! What a hypocrite! I'm worse than Gore! (but fewer people hate me because I never ran for president.)

Due to all you have done...I would listen and respect your opinion on the environment. But it is hard to listen to guy that does not practice what they say others should do.

I for one wish I had the know how to equip my house like you did. Maybe my next house I will do better.

[kallend 1,635]

This thread is starting to remind me of Pelosi-"I want my jet".

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

This thread is starting to remind me of Pelosi-"I want my jet".

Yep, you guys defending hypocrisy when it is "your" guy