Is anyone still stupid enough to believe that the Repubs are for worker's rights?

[Lucky... 0]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070215/pl_nm/congress_labor_veto_dc_1

Unionizing bill advances; Cheney threatens veto


Nice, so this is our free market? Hmmm, under the encyclopedic definition of fascism they speak of how fascists dislike organized labor. Hmmmmm

[FallRate 0]

Has anyone ever believed that Republicans are for worker's rights?

FallRate

[rushmc 18]

Got nothing to do with workers rights

Just follow the money...........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Butters 0]

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Vice President Dick Cheney declared the administration's opposition to the measure earlier on Wednesday, saying secret ballots are needed to prevent possible worker intimidation.

Not everyone wants to be in a union. Sounds like they are trying to protect worker's rights.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[willard 0]

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Vice President Dick Cheney declared the administration's opposition to the measure earlier on Wednesday, saying secret ballots are needed to prevent possible worker intimidation.

Not everyone wants to be in a union. Sounds like they are trying to protect worker's rights.

Exactly right. A worker has more to fear from pro-union people if he votes against the union (or resfuses to sign a petition) than he ever would from an employer if he voted in favor of a union.

[Andy9o8 0]

After reading the article, I'm on the fence about this. On the one hand, it is still too easy for employers to impede union organizing; so I don't have a problem with some sort of legislation to help remedy that. On the other hand, the Repubs have a point that the proposed bill removes the element of secret ballot, and that will inevitably lead to some workers not "voting" their true conscience, due to well-founded fears of intimidation and ostracization. Secret ballots exist in civilization for a good reason: to assure that a choice is truly a choice, and not mere acquiescence.

[TrophyHusband 0]

unions are great, just ask gm.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[warpedskydiver 0]

My father had to break union lines back in 1972 after he was kept from working for over 8 months and there were seven children to feed and a house to pay for.

The strikers parted the line the next day for fear of another physical confrontation as they had they had the day before.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Yep it is great to tell a guy how great a union is when his kids have no food, and he is told he can't work.

And then to find out there is no pension fund left after Jimmy and the mob stole it.

[quade 3]

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unions are great, just ask gm.

The unions didn't kill GM. GM existed, in fact prospered, for decades with unions

Japan killed GM. Outsourcing killed GM. Shitty designs killed GM. Shitty marketing killed GM. Chasing the wrong types of vehicles and building what they -thought- the public wanted rather than what the public -actually- wanted killed GM.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Andy9o8 0]

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Shitty designs killed GM. Shitty marketing killed GM. Chasing the wrong types of vehicles and building what they -thought- the public wanted rather than what the public -actually- wanted killed GM.

Put succinctly, GM killed GM.

Edit: BTW, Ford's killing Ford, too, pretty much the same way.

[willard 0]

I've been on both sides of the union fence. I was a member of the Teamsters, but the only thing they ever did for me was take money from my paycheck. Oh, and threatened to kill my brother when they went on strike and he kept on hauling (he is an independent trucker) so he could feed his kids.

[Andy9o8 0]

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I've been on both sides of the union fence. I was a member of the Teamsters, but the only thing they ever did for me was take money from my paycheck. Oh, and threatened to kill my brother when they went on strike and he kept on hauling (he is an independent trucker) so he could feed his kids.

I agree that unions can be abusive, wasteful and corrupt, and that the Teamsters have been among the worst of the lot. But the flip side is that wage scales, all sorts of safety and health practices, health insurance benefits, sick time, vacation time, etc., are also a byproduct of unions. Unions are not exclusively responsible for these, but they had an important hand in them; and these things might still not exist today had untions never existed. And a world in which workers have the ability collectively bargain is a whole lot less mean than it was before effective unions existed. So there are definitely two sides to this coin.

[kallend 1,635]

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unions are great, just ask gm.

Unions would never have arisen if it weren't for the tremendous abuse of workers in the 19th Century by big businesses.

If companies don't like unions, they have only themselves to blame.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Andy9o8 0]

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Unions would never have arisen if it weren't for the tremendous abuse of workers in the 19th Century by big businesses.

Yes. Precisely what I meant when I said "a world in which workers have the ability collectively bargain is a whole lot less mean than it was before effective unions existed. "

[TrophyHusband 0]

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unions are great, just ask gm.

Unions would never have arisen if it weren't for the tremendous abuse of workers in the 19th Century by big businesses.

If companies don't like unions, they have only themselves to blame.

you are right, unions were a great thing at one time. It is still a great concept, if not abused. unfortunatly that is not the case. I do believe that if companies treat their workers right, there wouldn't be a need to unionize.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Quote

unions are great, just ask gm.

Unions would never have arisen if it weren't for the tremendous abuse of workers in the 19th Century by big businesses.

If companies don't like unions, they have only themselves to blame.

Great comments everyone, I will answer the rest later. For now, Kallend nailed it on teh head, as a former lawyer down the street put it, bad business practices create unionization. If a company was great, a union presented itself, the workers would tell the union to fuck themselves. Let the company turn exploitive and the workersare looking in the yellow pages for a union.

[seedy 0]

What unions should do – since they say they are the very best, most highly trained workers there are and produce the superior product – is to organize into a cooperative instead of a union. Then go to the company and say, “We have a product to offer you – our labor. We will take care of the benefits packages for the workers (who work for the cooperative, not the company), the salaries, everything. We will guarantee you a set amount of productivity per year (or month or whatever period of time) and quality. In exchange, you pay us x amount of dollars for that period of time.”

The companies (if they were foresighted) would realize that they have a guaranteed amount and quality of product and that they would not have to have the overhead of a large HR department, payroll department, etc.

Safe working environments could be negotiated as well as other facets of the job. Training could the responsibility of the cooperative.

Win – win for all.

I intend to live forever -- so far, so good.

[Butters 0]

What happens to the people that want to work but not for the cooperative?

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[rushmc 18]

Quote

What unions should do – since they say they are the very best, most highly trained workers there are and produce the superior product – is to organize into a cooperative instead of a union. Then go to the company and say, “We have a product to offer you – our labor. We will take care of the benefits packages for the workers (who work for the cooperative, not the company), the salaries, everything. We will guarantee you a set amount of productivity per year (or month or whatever period of time) and quality. In exchange, you pay us x amount of dollars for that period of time.”

The companies (if they were foresighted) would realize that they have a guaranteed amount and quality of product and that they would not have to have the overhead of a large HR department, payroll department, etc.

Safe working environments could be negotiated as well as other facets of the job. Training could the responsibility of the cooperative.

Win – win for all.

Great post!! This would also give the union the chance and responsibility to get rid of the dead meat in the ranks.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[warpedskydiver 0]

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What happens to the people that want to work but not for the cooperative?

Gulag!!!

[willard 0]

Quote

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I've been on both sides of the union fence. I was a member of the Teamsters, but the only thing they ever did for me was take money from my paycheck. Oh, and threatened to kill my brother when they went on strike and he kept on hauling (he is an independent trucker) so he could feed his kids.

I agree that unions can be abusive, wasteful and corrupt, and that the Teamsters have been among the worst of the lot. But the flip side is that wage scales, all sorts of safety and health practices, health insurance benefits, sick time, vacation time, etc., are also a byproduct of unions. Unions are not exclusively responsible for these, but they had an important hand in them; and these things might still not exist today had untions never existed. And a world in which workers have the ability collectively bargain is a whole lot less mean than it was before effective unions existed. So there are definitely two sides to this coin.

I agree that unions have played a very important role in reforming working conditions, wages, benefits etc. But at some point the unions got greedy and wanted to control the entire industry including those who worked in non-union positions. The difficulty in the union vs management conflict is in arriving at a suitable compromise. History has shown that to be a tough goal to attain.

[willard 0]

Quote

What unions should do – since they say they are the very best, most highly trained workers there are and produce the superior product – is to organize into a cooperative instead of a union. Then go to the company and say, “We have a product to offer you – our labor. We will take care of the benefits packages for the workers (who work for the cooperative, not the company), the salaries, everything. We will guarantee you a set amount of productivity per year (or month or whatever period of time) and quality. In exchange, you pay us x amount of dollars for that period of time.”

The companies (if they were foresighted) would realize that they have a guaranteed amount and quality of product and that they would not have to have the overhead of a large HR department, payroll department, etc.

Safe working environments could be negotiated as well as other facets of the job. Training could the responsibility of the cooperative.

Win – win for all.

That would be a great idea except for one thing: The unions claim to have the best trained and the most qualified workers but that is not neccessarily the case. One only has to look at the auto industry.

There are skilled workers both union and non-union, as well as poorly skilled workers on both sides regardless of the trade.

Another problem is the same as we already have. When that contract expires the union stops work and forms a picket line. Often the company will bring in replacement workers but at a risk of a violent reaction from the striking unions.

Often just the threat of unionization is enough to entice a company to offer a wage and benefit package close to what a union contract would entail, just to keep unions out.

[Darius11 12]

My experience with unions has been bad.
The one I worked for back in the day 8-9 years ago were a sack of lazy shits making good money for not working much. Within the first day I was told to slow down, and shown where to hide from the cameras so to avoid working. I have never been so over paid for the amount work I did, and you can’t do your thing because they will fire you.
It was a waist.

I like the idea of fair pay but for fair work.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[sundevil777 94]

I think that there should be a law that says union leadership should get the same strike pay as their represented workers, when they are on strike.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am