rehmwa 2
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Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteMaybe the reason my post rang true for Michele had to do with the tone and content of my post. Maybe that's the same reason your's didn't. Tone and Content.
Bingo.
As for politics being relevant to basic chemistry, it's not. I don't know enough Chemistry to understand the political ramifications of X or Y, and neither do those in my class. This is NOT a class wherein politics mixes well...perhaps in some of the upper level chem it would be appropriate, but basic chem in 5 weeks doesn't lend itself well to political discussions within the context of the classroom at this level.
Ciels-
Michele
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. You barely even addressed my post, nor other posts from different posters advocating the same thing, I think you even dismissed teh idea of calling off the fight and would stand your ground. Then NClimber jumps in with it and it's a great idea. Pretend all day that it's about giving credit to a con buddy, I couldn't give a shit less.
As for politics and the classroom, deal with it. I asked if you were in nursing, probably the comm college rout so the teachers are generally more grounded, but if univ, as in state univ, it could be different. Since your school was not on Pickaprof.com, that makes me think you're in COmm Coll too.
I'm very god damned good at dealing with techers, whether harshly or to befriend them, probably due to my age more than anything, somewhat my disposition, and I will tell you that most would rather take you to the carpet than to concede, so I suggest you try the befriend route.
If they wanna talk sports, religion, politics, let em. Most people are there to get a degree rtaher than an education anyway, so do more stroking than swinging.
Lucky... 0
QuoteI was talking to a friend of mine, and he was surprised to hear I'm "republican," as he'd thought I was democrat.
I'm shocked, it's not as if you wear it on your lseeve or anything
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuotenow that Richards is out as a racist, hell, a racist could watch it for that!!!
?????????????????????????
That's Kramer on Seinfeld..... tell me you know that.
Michele 1
QuoteCan you GUARANTEE that everyone in the PoliSci class has taken enough chemistry to understand the issues? Do you want to make Chem a prerequisite for PoliSci? Where will you find a PoliSci prof who knows any chemistry anyway? And even then, some whacko will complain that Chemistry is being taught in PoliSci.
Kallend, are you suggesting that I am a "whacko" for having the concerns I stated in my original post? If so, you're rather far outta line.
For all: Here's what I think the discrepancy is. In one instance, one is arguing that the interrelationships of all topics should be taught and discussed. That I will agree with.
However, some are stating that personal political opinions (OPINIONS, not fact), are not appropriate in basic gened (or perhaps elsewhere). That I also agree with. While I can see some crossover happening in the upper division stuff, say, stem cell research ethics during a semester on embryo development or political aspects to global warming in a geology class or even in chem 200+ (i.e. what CO2 does and how it works, and how it's made and why it's important to understand)...that's fine.
But at this level, Chemistry For Dummies, any discussion about the 2000 election is NOT relevant, not topical, and more than certainly diverted an entire class from working on the subject matter.
And that's the difference. One is taught, and one is not. One is discussed with fundamental understanding of the subject matter, and one is learning fundamental subject matter and not ready for that sort of application.
And last note, there is no chemistry correlation between the 2000 election and moles/liters conversions and pH balances. Not that I can tell...and while I'm not necessarily the sharpest tool in the shed, I am not the dullest, either.
I've got to study for the final. I might be able to hold onto the B if I manage a B on the final, but that's going to take a ton of work. And so, I'm heading to my books to work it.
For those who have sent me PMs of support, I thank you so very much. This was something which bothered me greatly, and has been generally worked out. He and I will not be running off to dinner any time soon, but we're back to joking and teasing each other about things...
I've got a job to get done...and I will go get it done.
Ciels-
Michele
~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuote
Oops - corrected! Fingers operating faster than brain...
You're still not proving how that chemical reaction is affected by politics...QuoteWe believe in interdisciplinary education. We believe that all subjects are intimately related, yet these relationships are often ignored by teachers who focus on their own areas of specialization and by textbooks which are written by specialists. We believe that one cannot learn science independently of philosophy, logic, literature, mathematics, economics, art, language, etc. Science, without these other disciplines is sterile indeed!
Yeah...that's still not answering the question either...
Who claimed that chemical reactions are affected by politics? Certainly not me.
If you can't find an answer it's hardly my fault - I've pointed you in the right direction.
Silly me - I was under the assumption that Chemistry was about science, not politics. YOU are the one that was saying there is a connection.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteMaybe the reason my post rang true for Michele had to do with the tone and content of my post. Maybe that's the same reason your's didn't. Tone and Content.
Bingo.
As for politics being relevant to basic chemistry, it's not. I don't know enough Chemistry to understand the political ramifications of X or Y, and neither do those in my class. This is NOT a class wherein politics mixes well...perhaps in some of the upper level chem it would be appropriate, but basic chem in 5 weeks doesn't lend itself well to political discussions within the context of the classroom at this level.
Ciels-
Michele
I guess I'm not happy with this. I **assume** that Chemistry is a "general education" requirement at your college, and as such it is there to assure that college graduates have a level of basic education sufficient to be well informed citizens regardless of their actual major. Since chemistry is SO central to many political decisions right now, I think that some political considerations in which chemistry plays a part ought to be involved even in an intro course.
Hell, right now? IN Darwin's days it was an issue, in Mendell (as I recall, the guy that did geneology on plants) it was an issue. I bet in the days of flat world vs round (oblate spheroid) world it was an issue. Only the side that wants to suppress it claims there is no correlation, so let's keem em seperate.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteGeneral education requirements aside, why don't you explain why POLITICAL concerns need to be addressed in a SCIENCE class, and not in a political science class (which would, it is to be presumed, fulfill part of the General Education requirements).
I've noted that nobody can answer how politics affect chemical reactions as of yet.
Can you GUARANTEE that everyone in the PoliSci class has taken enough chemistry to understand the issues? Do you want to make Chem a prerequisite for PoliSci? Where will you find a PoliSci prof who knows any chemistry anyway? And even then, some whacko will complain that Chemistry is being taught in PoliSci.
What is your point? That because there are some overlaps, professors should lecture on subjects outside of their field of expertise?QuoteYou second comment has already been addressed.
So, you liked my butterfly analogy, too?
No.
What was your point?
Your analogy was crappy. Hence the "NO". Simple really.QuoteWhat is your point? That because there are some overlaps, professors should lecture on subjects outside of their field of expertise?
Still waiting.
Try reading this and come back when you know something about the way education works.
Why? Because you lack the ability to articulate an answer.
I'm guessing this is such a hot button issue with you,... one that you've been repeatedly evasive on because it taps into the dirty little secret David Horowitz has been ranting about for years,... that many of the heavily left leaning academics feel they are entitled to push their ideological agenda on their captive audiences, regardless of whether or not it has any bearing on their expertise or the course material they are hired to teach.
When it comes to higher learning, education and indoctrination are not synonymous.
How about you sack up and quit playing dodgeball on this one?
Lucky... 0
QuoteI understand your point, Kallend, and I think that politics and chemistry do mix. Just not at this level. Especially on a winter intersession, where it's a total of 5 weeks, 5 hours a day, 5 days a week...
I mean, it's the most basic chemistry class...we're discussing simple and basic things like balancing chem. equations, double replacements, conversion formulas, moles/molarity/molar mass, and things like that.
If I were to equate it to an english class, it's less English 101 as it is learning the alphabet and reading See Jane Run. Sure, it'd be more exciting to see Jane run away from, say, Al Quaida, but if you don't know what running is, you'll have no concept, let alone introducing the complications of what AQ is, let alone the reason Jane would consider running from them.
In the higher divisions of chemistry, fine; let's talk about how GW impacts thw world and what CO2 really does. Right now, we're just trying to figure out how O2 produces CO2...
That's my position, at least. You might disagree, but that's all right.
Ciels-
Michele
GEEZ, in English 102 I had to write papers on current events, political or otherwise. Fundamental classes shouldnot be void of national/world issues.
rehmwa 2
QuoteHow about you sack up and quit playing dodgeball on this one?
He did, the rest is just good old fashioned button-pushing fun.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2639908#2639908
applicability of subject matter to current events is fine, what this specific teacher was doing did NOT fit into the category of applying chemistry to "current events" - he crossed that line
K was talking about the first bit, it's been fun to poke at his with Michelle's example because it's a crappy (and unethical) example of application in gened curriculum. The worry, is the gened intent is abused too much by the many activist and extreme (lib and con) profs out there pushing their agendas - it is a problem in academia.
A student has 3 choices when the run across these types (every student will have one as some time, but it's not a huge hit rate if you think about it)
1 - Lucky's approach. (pragmatic) Kiss up to them and keep you 'real' opinions to yourself. If can do it, you get the grade and can laugh about the activist as you leave the class for the next one.
2 - Michelle's approach. (idealistic) Stick to your guns and argue. Feed's the teacher's ego and gets you in a position to be unfairly discriminated against.
3 - the rest of us. (mission focused) Ignore him except to remind him you are in a class that you are paying for. Deflates them but doesn't so much make it personal as just neutral.
however, 1 and 2 have the benefit of discovering if the teacher is vindictive/play's favorites and you can learn if they are a hypocrit where fairness and objectivity are in play
It kind of depends on what your goals are.....
and, I bet that students are just as guilty of it as teachers, but they aren't in the power structure so much
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteIn order for ANY undergraduate program to be accreditable, it must have a general education component. The universities and colleges have no option if they want to be accredited.
The purpose of GenEds is NOT the same as the purpose of major courses. I'm surprised that you are ignorant of this. No, on reflection, I'm not surprised at all.
General Education - you mean like some basic coursework in math, physics, economics, psychology and chemistry?
I think it's odd that a professor of hard sciences doesn't consider something like chemistry to be of enough value (all by its little lonesome), that it would only be considered good enough as a single topic in a curriculum of basic general education only if we dice in the personal political views of the professors.....
Before you guys make more complete asses of yourselves on a subject on which you apparently know nothing, I suggest you educate yourselves on accreditation criteria for colleges and universities in the USA and the purpose and assessment of the (mandatory) gened programs.
MO for cons arguing:
1) Throw out random thoughts that are opinions dressed as fact
2) When some silly lib posts evidence to undermine the con's so-called 'proof', the con gets several other cons to agree, hence the mob tries to win by numbers
3) When all else fails and/or the con looks silly, get the mods to delete the thread
..... or something like that.
kallend 1,683
Quote
How about you sack up and quit playing dodgeball on this one?
You REPEATEDLY have tried to misprepresent my position despite being shown over and over that your statements ARE misrepresentations. You fool no-one except yourself.
If you want to know what the requirements are for accreditation of colleges and universities and why things are done the way they are, read the book. I tried telling you but you don't believe me, so go to the source and have fun reading it.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
jakee 1,280
QuoteKallend, are you suggesting that I am a "whacko" for having the concerns I stated in my original post? If so, you're rather far outta line.
Another nail in the coffin of reading comprehension.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote
Please enlighten us on how the 2000 election drama is relevant to the subject matter in "Chemistry for Dummies".
I'm really interested in reading why you think this kind of behavior is completely approrpiate.
My gut tells me you think this is some sort of entitlement. Am I wrong?
Educate the masses.
If you'll show me where I wrote that, I'd be quite interested to see what I wrote since I don't recall being drunk.
Of course, it could be that I didn't write that and you are making it up.
No, if he claims it, it must have been. NClimber is a stickler for getting quotes as direct. He does, on occassion, clean them up tho
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteBefore you guys make more complete asses of yourselves on a subject on which you apparently know nothing,
Why so testy?QuoteI suggest you educate yourselves on accreditation criteria for colleges and universities in the USA and the purpose and assessment of the (mandatory) gened programs.
Please tell us about the part detailing how professors can/should offer political opinions, unrelated to the stated course material.
You could always try reading what I actually wrote instead of making stuff up and attributing it to me.QuoteSince chemistry is SO central to many political decisions right now, I think that some political considerations in which chemistry plays a part ought to be involved even in an intro course.
What part of the highlighted text did you fail to misquote this time?
Fixxed it for ya.
Lucky... 0
QuoteKallend, I'd really rather not get this thread locked.
Thank you so much, Michelle, CASE IN POINT. Both side being combative, you turn away from the cons and go the otehr way as if it's their fault.
That was my point here, the cons stick together regardless of facts, truth, etc.
Lucky... 0
Likelihood is that she's going for an ADN, associates in nursing, so chem is just a PIA that you have to suffer thru.
ExAFO 0
This thread should die of gonorrhea and rot in hell.
Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.
kallend 1,683
Quote
Kallend, are you suggesting that I am a "whacko" for having the concerns I stated in my original post? If so, you're rather far outta line.
I have answered your original post and given an opinion on your concerns. You don't have to associate yourself with my hypothetical.
How come you don't call out the person (NC) who calls your course "Chemistry for Dummies"? He's suggesting you're a "dummy", right? But that was OK with you?
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Lucky... 0
QuoteI've noted that nobody can answer how politics affect chemical reactions as of yet.
If only life were that compartmentalized.
ExAFO 0
Lock. This. Thread.
Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.
Richards 0
QuoteThat's Kramer on Seinfeld..... tell me you know that.
Doh!!. My dumb. I thought maybe something I said got taken out of context. Completely missed who it was you were referring to.
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
that's two jokes, Lucky
darn it, you're becoming likeable
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
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