Liberalism in the Classroom (Long, but I need your opinion)

[Shotgun 1]

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If he responds, I'll post it up.

It doesn't seem very appropriate to be posting private email conversations on a public forum.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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I bet there were people beheaded for thinking the world was round (spherical, even tho it's not a perfect sphere)?

"oblate spheroid" is a funny term

It's a Geiod not a Spheroid Dammit!!!!!

[Michele 1]

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It doesn't seem very appropriate to be posting private email conversations on a public forum.

Worry not; it will be redacted so none of you will know who it is...or where it's from.

He hasn't answered yet, so I'm not sure he will; I'm heading to school in about 30 minutes anyway, exam at 4:30, lecture and lab after that...so it's more likely at this point he says something to me personally rather than email anyway. 'Course, he might not say anything, and ignore the issue completely. That, too, will be telling.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[rehmwa 2]

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It doesn't seem very appropriate to be posting private email conversations on a public forum.

Worry not; it will be redacted so none of you will know who it is...or where it's from.

He hasn't answered yet, so I'm not sure he will; I'm heading to school in about 30 minutes anyway, exam at 4:30, lecture and lab after that...so it's more likely at this point he says something to me personally rather than email anyway. 'Course, he might not say anything, and ignore the issue completely. That, too, will be telling.

Ciels-
Michele

If he's as bad as he sounds, be ready for him to flash your "apology" on the overhead projector for all to see. Then he'll claim "victory" on all his political points. and then do a little dance.

(I figured you aren't worrying enough about him)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Michele 1]

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If he's as bad as he sounds, be ready for him to flash your "apology" on the overhead projector for all to see

(I figured you aren't worrying enough about him)

Meh. If he does that, and doesn't apologize to me, then the whole class will know what sort of a person he is (not that they don't know already...).

Honestly? I'm more worried about the exam than his flashing my apology...I just want to get through that (I'm wrestling with one aspect; the other parts are just peachy), and get on to the rest of the week; the final is on Friday, so it's high pressure all week for me.

That's what I'm worried about.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[unformed 0]

For someone who's intensely worried about the exam, you sure are spending a lot energy being aggravated about your teacher.

Why not be the better person and just forget about it? Go to class. Don't talk to him about politics; don't provoke him, and if he says something meant to incite you, just ignore it and focus on learning what you need to learn. If he gets no response, eventually he'll grow bored and do what he's there to do - teach.

This ad space for sale.

[crwtom 0]

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Well, if that were a correct description of any educational establishment, all grades would be "A" and the workload would be minimal because that's what the customer wants. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way.

... there certainly is a pressure in this direction.

University administrators like to make connections between tutition revenue and student evaluations.

And there is little doubt that the latter are very much correlated to spoon-feed teaching styles, soft work loads, and high grades.

Cheers, T

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Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[Richards 0]

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spoon-feed teaching styles, soft work loads, and high grades.

Why does everyone equate effective teaching that adds clarity of instruction to spoonfeeding? I agree entirely that you need to make the standards high and people should have to earn thier marks but I go nuts when people say that students learn the material better if they are forced to struggle to figure it out. For example in many undergraduate business courses (accounting, economics..etc) there is a tendency to not provide solutions for end of chapter questions even though you are not marked on these. Some professors feel that allowing students to compare thier solution against a solution manual so as to get effective feedback qualifies as spoonfeeding. Why? How do you measure your progress and know if you are missing the point unless you have a means of doing so?

Some of my favourite profesors were hated by other students because they apparently gave killer exams but as far as I was concerned that was fine because up until the exam they taught in a manner that made complex ideas seem understandable. Test hard yes, but teach poorly no.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[jenfly00 0]

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One other thing you might want to consider is apologizing to your professor. Without get into particulars, you could offer something along the lines of "I thought we had a pretty good relationship and I want to apologize for any part I played in turning it into a confrontational one". If he replies with criticisms... let them slide.

NC, thanks for that. You're right...and I went ahead and emailed him a moment ago. Here is what I sent over...

"Hi, Professor:

Friday's episode has been bothering me, and I wanted to take a brief moment to email you this morning. I thought we had a pretty good relationship and I want to apologize for any part I played in turning it into a confrontational one. It wasn't (and isn't) my intent to have a confrontational relationship with anyone, and again, I am sorry for any part I played in developing that.

With that, I am back to studying, and I'll see you this afternoon.

Regards-
Michele"

If he responds, I'll post it up. If not, well, we'll see what happens this afternoon in class.

Thanks again for the wording, and for the suggestion. Let's see how this goes. And now, I have to review pH factoring and buffer identification...

Ciels-
Michele

Good move!

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[jumprunner 0]

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"What would you do, in my situation? Talking to him is apparently not working; I tried that tonight...but he walked out of the conversation, and told me to "get over it." Other than notifying the Dean, I don't really know what else to do...so does someone have an idea? "

I can tell you that the way you are going now, you are going to have a rocky road getting through some of these college courses. I have found that, if you dont get along with the class instructor, then there is a good chance that you are not going to pass the course. It always works out like that, and I even had one instructor tell me that. Something you might want to remember, if you dont like repeating courses.

You initiated a political discussion with an instructor and got yourself into this mess, mainly because, you dont mind voicing your opinion when you think you are right. It's okay to do that here on the forums, but keep it out of college courses, unless you plan on repeating several of them during your college career.

To illustrate this, I remember a political science class where I and several others had a difference in opinion on a political view with the instructor. All of us with differing opinions made a "D" in the course and had to repeat it. She was popular for doing that. The Dean wont do anything but blame it on you, in any college, its always the students' fault and you as a student have no say-so with any instructor.

Dont look for Democracy in a system that is not Democratic.


I have a degree in Chemistry from TTU, so if you need some help with Chemistry let me know and Ill see if I can help.

Best to not talk to him anymore, just smile as you pass by would be the best policy for now. Saying anything to him will just dig a deeper hole.

[jumprunner 0]

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>(well, relatively big bucks; academia isn't known for its pay scales.)

my sister works for a university - their 401K program matches 2 to 1 (unlike most industries that match 0.5 to 1). And, tenure is an interesting concept also.

But, universities are political institutions, if the guy is PC Milquetoast and sucks, he gets fired. If the guy is some activist, he gets fired if he is in disagreement with the general faculty staff (despite his performance or lack of one). If he's an activist and agrees with the general faculty, then he gets cut a ton of slack.

best for students to just avoid the topics in class and not waste the time. and not feed the jackass.

I think some companies might also be political institutions. I interviewed with a defense contractor recently, and, well, you know what my political views are and what can set me off in a split second.

One interviewer said something about Iran and nukes and I followed through with what a crappy president we have. Didnt get selected for the second round of interviews, but didnt want to work there anyway. if I kept my mouth shut during the interview and got the job, it would all eventually come out sooner or later.

[willard 0]

Since I don't have time to read all the replies here I will apologize in advance if I happen to repeat anything that has been mentioned previously.

What this prof has done is on the edge of misconduct. He has no business telling anyone what their political beliefs are anymore than he does telling them what their favorite color is. If he is willing to do this with a mature student, I can only guess what he would be telling younger students who are at a very impressionable age.

I wouldn't worry too much about how he will grade your tests. H2 is still hydrogen, O2 is still oxygen, and H2O is still water. Just make sure you cross all "T"s and dot all "i"s, which you should be doing anyway. Being a science class almost every answer will be either right or wrong with no grey area. The few that may depend upon the graders interpretation can always be compared with a classmate's to see if he was grading fairly.

My advice, from one mature student to another, is to get through the rest of the course on a strictly student-prof relationship. I once had a prof who tended to make political remarks and judgements in his lectures. I took it in stride until one day he made a remark that was an outright falsehood, which I confronted him about after class. He admitted that he didn't confirm his information and apologized to the class the next day. After that he saved his remarks for private conversation with those who welcomed it, myself included. I have spent hours discussing politics with him and we have never raised our voices or made personal attacks, rather we both learn from each other and enjoy talking current events with someone who is a political opposite.

Our professors in our colleges and universities have a great responsibility in their hands. The students in front of them, for the most part, are at an age where they are taking on the social beliefs that they will carry with them for the rest of their lives. It is good that information is available to them in the form of Dem and Repub clubs, debate clubs, etc. It is not, however, a good thing when the profs push their political agenda onto the students as part of a class that has nothing to do with politics. Most of the students are still at an age where they have the idea that if a teacher said it, it has to be true.

There is a small portion of the PhD population that feel they should automaticaly be respected and revered just because they have a PhD. I know one prof who insists upon being called "Doctor". He told me that he spent 12 years in college working for his PhD and, by God, people were going to show respect. Luckily I did not have him for any classes and therefore felt comfortable telling him that, in his case, PhD meant Pompous Honorary Dickhead.
Most of my profs have been the opposite, prefering their students to call them by their first name only or the traditional Mr. (insert name here).

My feeling about your situation is that this prof has issues that go far beyond any dealings with you. I hope you can get through his class without any more stress than there already is. Hang in there! College is tough enough at our age without jerks making it tougher. Our big advantage is that we have been in the world long enough to have learned how to deal with people like him. Use that knowledge to your advantage.

[1969912 0]

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think some companies might also be political institutions. I interviewed with a defense contractor recently, and, well, you know what my political views are and what can set me off in a split second.

One interviewer said something about Iran and nukes and I followed through with what a crappy president we have. Didnt get selected for the second round of interviews, but didnt want to work there anyway. if I kept my mouth shut during the interview and got the job, it would all eventually come out sooner or later.

Just in case you just graduated yesterday,

1) Learn basic interviews skills
2) Don't apply for jobs with defense contractors
3) Keep your political views to yourself at work

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[1969912 0]

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I wouldn't worry too much about how he will grade your tests. H2 is still hydrogen, O2 is still oxygen,

Sorry to nitpick, Willard, but H is Hydrogen and O is Oxygen. H2 and O2 are the diatomic ways that H and O are found in our atmosphere.

Again, sorry to nitpick, but I have a pint of Murphy's Stout riding on this

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[waltappel 1]

During my last semester of engineering school when a bunch of us were talking with recruiters, word got around about one question the defense contractors were asking and what the "right" answer was.

Q: "Do you have any problem working on weapons systems, even though they may be used to kill large numbers of people including women and children?"

The "right" answer: [with a somber look] "I believe in a strong America."

Shit, most of us would have killed large numbers of people with our bare hands for the right gig!

Walt

[willard 0]

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I wouldn't worry too much about how he will grade your tests. H2 is still hydrogen, O2 is still oxygen,

Sorry to nitpick, Willard, but H is Hydrogen and O is Oxygen. H2 and O2 are the diatomic ways that H and O are found in our atmosphere.

Again, sorry to nitpick, but I have a pint of Murphy's Stout riding on this

Yes, you are correct. When I went through my chem sequence we almost always refered to the diatomic states unless specifically asked not to so the habit of referring to them as H2 and O2 follows me still.

[willard 0]

BTW, are you gonna share that stout?

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[billvon 2,476]

> BTW, are you gonna share that stout?

At this point I would like to completely hijack this thread and point out that I have just discovered Older Viscosity, a limited-run strong ale from Port Brewing. One of the best beers I've ever had, although at 12% alcohol it's barely a beer. In many ways it's the port of beers - it's definitely not something you can pound.

[Lucky... 0]

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I bet there were people beheaded for thinking the world was round (spherical, even tho it's not a perfect sphere)?

"oblate spheroid" is a funny term

Yep, that's teh one I was thinking of. Earth spins on its axis, the middle (euator) is fatter and the ends pull down some. Last time I was in a club and wrote that the world is a shpere some guy piped in and made clear that it wasn't a perfect sphere, which is why I wrote the disclaimer in parenthesis.

[Lucky... 0]

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I bet there were people beheaded for thinking the world was round (spherical, even tho it's not a perfect sphere)?

"oblate spheroid" is a funny term

I could see Seinfeld making an episode on 'oblate spheroid'.

Sein: Ever wonder if the "flat earth" people thought about the oblate spheroid? .... yea, that wouldbe a kick.... too bad he hung it up

[Lucky... 0]

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One other thing you might want to consider is apologizing to your professor. Without get into particulars, you could offer something along the lines of "I thought we had a pretty good relationship and I want to apologize for any part I played in turning it into a confrontational one". If he replies with criticisms... let them slide.

I proposed that....she ignored. Egos, they're not just for breakfast anymore. Hell, let him win, then he upgrades you thinking he's changed you somehow.

[Lucky... 0]

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I bet there were people beheaded for thinking the world was round (spherical, even tho it's not a perfect sphere)?

"oblate spheroid" is a funny term

I could see Seinfeld making an episode on 'oblate spheroid'.

They could make one, but I wouldn't see it. I hate that show. Now, Scrubs, is funny.

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I hate that show.

How could you? That show is great. Not a PA andnot inferring you, but I could see an antisemite hate the show, but hell, now that Richards is out as a racist, hell, a racist could watch it for that!!!

[Lucky... 0]

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If he wants to teach politics, he needs to change to the political science department - otherwise, he needs to shut up and teach chemistry.

Teachers have free rein, other than grabbing ass or dropping the N bomb. Don't think so, go a round or two with em. The chair and the dept willback them all the way into civil court, admin hearings, etc...

Then go to a univ and fuck with a tenured prof, they are totally galvanized. If you read my post about that prof who used the Mexican Lightbulb Question to explain your grade, and he retired ameritus.

Theoretically, teachers do X, in reality they do A. Theoretically we have no inniocent people in jail/prison, we know different. There is the written world and the real world, quit living in the written world, it'snot real.

Actually, I'd call it the difference between the academic world and the real world.

Check out a book called "The Rape of Alma Mater". Drawing the parallels between the book and the changes I've seen in the educational system from my own experience is illuminating.

I think this is a case where we're both right. Depends where you choose to dichotomize it. The expected behavior is usually ddifferent from the realized diff and the whole academic POS is different from reality, as you stated.

[Lucky... 0]

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Oh yes they do. As I wrote, WMD = chemicals and how the governments react. Perhaos the usable life of the chems, etc....

Bullshit - show me how religion or politics changes a chemical reaction and I'll cede the point.

Who distributes the chemicals to whom? What they do with them? What teh shelf life is in relation to which countries tiring of that country. It is really a convoluted mess.

A better example of politics and science would be your hero and stem cell research. So, politics and science have no correlation, huh? Never did address the Mendell or Darwin cite.

[Lucky... 0]

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Religon, Christianity and politics have no correlation?

Not to chemistry, Lucky...

Ciels-
Michele

Of course they do.

Trying to discredit biochemistry, environmental chemistry, genetics, molecular biology and paleontology is job #1 for the whacko right.

Tomorrow a House committee is holding a hearing on administration interference with federal scientists' research. Should be interesting now that the GOP can't whitewash it.

Right, Bush and stem cell research.... nuff said there