Skyrad 0 #26 January 8, 2007 Evan if it does I think the use of Tac Nukes would be a very big mistake.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #27 January 8, 2007 QuoteWill if we don’t want to be hypocrites we should hold the same standards for all nations. Do you think the US should be considered violent? There are very active, very violent nations out there right now. Some to their own people, the rest to other nations. Which is the greater threat to us? To the balance of peace? Does the body count not matter if our interests are not at stake? If you act on the premise of national defense, even pre-emptive, does that make you violent? Who gets to make this choice of who falls into which category?_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #28 January 8, 2007 QuoteSo Darius11 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As for Israel we all know the deal with them. They started their nation by mass murdering Palestinians, but wonder why they are hated. So lets see all the nations in the region hate Israel and think of Israel (rightfully so IMHO) as a murdering cruel nation that has stolen land from people who were unable to protect themselves, but once again we assume every one is wrong and we are right. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- and Skyrad -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Israel faces a threat from SOME Arab states and the Iranians. Israel doesn't face a threat from all Muslims. I was brought up in a Muslim family and was taught that the Jews are our cousins, not people to be hated as is often portrayed on TV. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- the contrast between these two muslim family upbringings is one of the most poignant things I've seen on this subject in DZ.com Once again you have a really blinded and hypocritical view on the world. Does family upbringing shape every Christians views and ideas or do any Christians do there own research, and maybe make up there own mind? Or do all Christians do what there daddy tells them? I don’t care that’s the Israelis are Jews, I care that they cruel, and they are hypocrites. They talk about international law and their rights, at the same time they brake international law constantly. We are all brothers in my book, you should try telling that to the Israelis who believe the land is theirs and no one else. You can choose to focus on what you want, but my views on Israel have not changed, and I have never had a problem with Jews, I have a problem with inhumanity. I have also stated many times that it would have been much better if it was looked at as a land dispute and religion was never brought up.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #29 January 8, 2007 QuoteQuoteWill if we don’t want to be hypocrites we should hold the same standards for all nations. Do you think the US should be considered violent? There are very active, very violent nations out there right now. Some to their own people, the rest to other nations. Which is the greater threat to us? To the balance of peace? Does the body count not matter if our interests are not at stake? If you act on the premise of national defense, even pre-emptive, does that make you violent? Who gets to make this choice of who falls into which category? You see your right because you used the words our interest. Your right the decisions we make are for our interest. I have an issue when people try to make it sound like the right thing. Here is what most confuse that I have an issue with. The right thing and what’s right for us our not always the same. What drives me crazy is when you have people whom always try to argue what’s right for us is the right thing. The reality we are a selfish nation like other nations in the world.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #30 January 8, 2007 QuoteOnce again you have a really blinded and hypocritical view on the world...... do all Christians do what there daddy tells them?.... I don’t care that’s the Israelis are Jews, I care that they cruel, and they are hypocrites..... . . . We are all brothers in my book, . . . I have never had a problem is with Jews, I have a problem with inhumanity.... good stuff D - all I did was post two posting side by side and noted it was poignant. the contrast is poignant and seems to really bug you. The family upbringing was an inference on my part - if you arrived at your views independently without any community or family influence, then easy enough to just clarify that without you, in your gentle and 'love thy brother' way, of call me 'blinded and hypocritical". The truth is, I'm 'cynical' and I see very well. Your dictionary might be broken. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #31 January 8, 2007 The point is this. Don’t attack or question my upbringing. If I say something that is false, or a lie challenge me, and call me on it every time. I have no issue with that what so ever. I don’t like it when you have people and you know who they are as well as I do, that choose one sentence in your post and pick it a part or attack something that has no relevance.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #32 January 8, 2007 QuoteEvan if it does I think the use of Tac Nukes would be a very big mistake I agree. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #33 January 8, 2007 QuoteWe are all brothers in my book, you should try telling that to the Israelis who believe the land is theirs and no one else. 1. how is that different from palestinians who believe the land is theirs and no one elses? 2. we're talking about Iran and its threat to wipe israel off the map. i don't remember any land dispute between Israel and Iran (and please don't sell me the "helping their muslim brothers" issue because you know very well they'll be at eachother's throats if it had served them better) QuoteI have also stated many times that it would have been much better if it was looked at as a land dispute and religion was never brought up. agreed. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #34 January 8, 2007 Quote1. how is that different from palestinians who believe the land is theirs and no one elses? I believe they have more right to the land then the people who moved from Europe 50 years ago. IMHO it would be great if the boarders were dropped and it was one nation for the good of all people there. I know I am a dreamer. Quote2. we're talking about Iran and its threat to wipe israel off the map. i don't remember any land dispute between Israel and Iran (and please don't sell me the "helping their muslim brothers" issue because you know very well they'll be at eachother's throats if it had served them better) Well that’s political bullshit and we both know it. Most Iranians couldn’t give two fucks about Palestine. Iran’s position is simply a political stance it does not even represent the will of the majority for the people. What cracks me up most people think because I am from Iran I am biased on the issue of my Arab brothers, they have no idea that historically and even in today’s world the majority of Arabs do not like Iranians, and the majority of Iranians don’t like Arabs.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #35 January 8, 2007 What about IRA? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #36 January 8, 2007 QuoteThe point is this..... you don't get it at all, explaining the point is futile also with you on this one, suffice to say that no attack intended so you won't get an apology either - thin skinned today? still, I'll try once - looking at two consecutive posts, notice the dramatic difference in opinions. Therefore, you can't treat muslims (or those that come from a muslim background) as a single personality. Still have to take them one at a time. It was a tacit agreement with Skyrad that we all have very differing opinions. secondly, I stated upbringing as I inferred from skyrad that he might not be muslim, only raised as one (directly from his posts) - that statement was a concession to his words, not yours. the link to your post rather than SR was because your post was more wordy, so easier to write it from that baseline. If you took the comparison as a slam on you, then you need to look at your own words and how they reflect on who you really are. I implied nothing but a significant contrast. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #37 January 8, 2007 We could do this all day, but I’ll try one more time as well. You implied a significant contrast that you assumed is based on upbringing. My point is my view is based on what I believe to be truths, not simply because of being brain washed or influenced by my upbringing. QuoteSo Darius11 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As for Israel we all know the deal with them. They started their nation by mass murdering Palestinians, but wonder why they are hated. So lets see all the nations in the region hate Israel and think of Israel (rightfully so IMHO) as a murdering cruel nation that has stolen land from people who were unable to protect themselves, but once again we assume every one is wrong and we are right. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- and Skyrad -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Israel faces a threat from SOME Arab states and the Iranians. Israel doesn't face a threat from all Muslims. I was brought up in a Muslim family and was taught that the Jews are our cousins, not people to be hated as is often portrayed on TV. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- the contrast between these two muslim family upbringings is one of the most poignant things I've seen on this subject in DZ.com I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #38 January 8, 2007 A pre-emptive strike (Nuke or otherwise) on Iran at this stage would be completely 100% wrong, no matter who instigated it. Iran is like the scared kid shouting at the school yard bullies. They have done nothing to warrant a slap. Would you slap someone, just because they tell lies about you family? - Only a bully would. Would you slap someone, just because they say that you should be killed? - Again nope, only a bully would. Are the bullies gouding them into to inappropriate action? - Seems likely. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #39 January 8, 2007 I did not base the contrast assumption on upbringing, I used the word solely because I wasn't sure Skyrad was muslim, or only raised muslim. Anything else is a result of my poor English skills. I can see how it was read the other way. If you really know me, you'd recognize that the only contrast I will consciously make in my own mind is between the two individuals. However, fair enough, another disconnect is that I don't consider "upbringing" to be some bad thing that I'd equate it to brain washing. People with "upbringing" regularly grow up to have opinions on things. edit: original post edited to keep the peace in the family http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2603792#2603792 ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #40 January 8, 2007 50 years ago Israel became the name of the tribal nation that has been on that dirt since the Dead Seas Scrolls where written and the time prior to the bible being written. THe events of WWII where used as a catalyst for the Nation Naming and Border drawing. Additionally, Anthropologists and other Scientists have shown how the Hebrew (Israel's Majority Religion) have lived on that area as long as the Arabs (prior to the Muslim Religion being started and infused into the current fight). But also lets not forget the Turks, Kurds, etc etc. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #41 January 8, 2007 QuoteI believe they have more right to the land and I believe otherwise. Quoteit would be great if the boarders were dropped and it was one nation exactly the point. its NOT one nation, its 2 different nations. a border should be set exactly for the same reason any 2 nations have a border between them. QuoteWell that’s political bullshit and we both know it. my point exactly. Iran has no REAL reason to hate israel and to want to "wipe it off the map", beside the insanity of its current leaders... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #42 January 9, 2007 QuoteIran took American Hostages who were presumed to be spy’s in 1979 and that’s your reasoning for calling Iran violent? Of the 90 that were initially in the embassy at the time, 52 remained hostages...you're saying they were spies? Of course, Khomeini said they were spies, so I guess it's true... The revolutionaries planned the seizure of the embassy, it wasn't a spontaneous event.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #43 January 9, 2007 QuoteQuoteIran took American Hostages who were presumed to be spy’s in 1979 and that’s your reasoning for calling Iran violent? Of the 90 that were initially in the embassy at the time, 52 remained hostages...you're saying they were spies? Of course, Khomeini said they were spies, so I guess it's true... The revolutionaries planned the seizure of the embassy, it wasn't a spontaneous event. I said that was the reason given, and I am willing to bet there is more truth to the American Embassy in Iran being used as a hub for spies then there was WMD in Iraq. People sometimes believe in bullshit the majority of the US did. Like I said before set a standard and hold every one to it. If you’re going to judge other countries and their action it is good to take a long hard honest look at our selves first.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #44 January 9, 2007 Getting back to the OP - OPEC keeps announcing production cuts and the price of crude keeps falling. Earlier today, crude traded at it's lowest price in 18 months. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #45 January 9, 2007 QuoteI said that was the reason given, and I am willing to bet there is more truth to the American Embassy in Iran being used as a hub for spies then there was WMD in Iraq. People sometimes believe in bullshit the majority of the US did. Like I said before set a standard and hold every one to it. If you’re going to judge other countries and their action it is good to take a long hard honest look at our selves first. So you did not read my post. ALL Embassies in the world have a member or members of their coutries intelligence service there stationed in the embassy. NO other country has acted in such a heinous manner as Iran did to take over a foreign embassy.. Based on what you are saying WE SHOULD take over all of the Embassies and consulates and be justified to hold them in Gitmo since many of them are spying in our country.. to the detriment of the American People Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #46 January 9, 2007 Actually, the next time that Nukes get thrown around, Petrol prices should go down.... cus there will be a lot less of us around to need any. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #47 January 9, 2007 QuoteQuoteI said that was the reason given, and I am willing to bet there is more truth to the American Embassy in Iran being used as a hub for spies then there was WMD in Iraq. People sometimes believe in bullshit the majority of the US did. Like I said before set a standard and hold every one to it. If you’re going to judge other countries and their action it is good to take a long hard honest look at our selves first. So you did not read my post. ALL Embassies in the world have a member or members of their coutries intelligence service there stationed in the embassy. NO other country has acted in such a heinous manner as Iran did to take over a foreign embassy.. Based on what you are saying WE SHOULD take over all of the Embassies and consulates and be justified to hold them in Gitmo since many of them are spying in our country.. to the detriment of the American People Some how I don’t believe that every embassy is presumed to be filled with spies that are actively spying on their host country. I am sure we would not like it much if we found out that any country embassy is a home for spies that are after our top secrets. QuoteNO other country has acted in such a heinous manner as Iran did No off course we just invade the whole country in a heinous manner, and kill 30K+ people in the process Yep your right we are SOOOOOOOOOOOO much more civilized then those barbaric Iranians. Thanks for the laugh.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #48 January 9, 2007 QuoteSome how I don’t believe that every embassy is presumed to be filled with spies that our actively spying on their host country. if only everyone felt that way, spying would be a much easier vocation than it is today ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #49 January 9, 2007 QuoteQuoteNO other country has acted in such a heinous manner as Iran did No off course we just invade the whole country in a heinous manner, and kill 30K+ people in the process Yep your right we are SOOOOOOOOOOOO much more civilized then those barbaric Iranians. Thanks for the laugh. Are you actually trying to justify the Iranian taking of the US embassy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #50 January 9, 2007 IT seems someone has a perception problem with what is appropriate in diplomatic circles.. as opposed to what is done in WAR... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
