What religion are you? And what does it mean?

[steveorino 7]

Quote

>Likewise, if all things are not God's will, then God is logically not all
>knowing and all powerful.

If God is omnipotent, could he create a stick so strong that he couldn't break it?

Wow, so deep.

steveOrino

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

It is a strawman because your creating your own idea of divine attributes.

I start with two assumptions:
1. God is all knowing and all powerful.
2. God is eternal.

Do you disagree with these assumptions?

Quote

It would not stand in ANY theology class I know of from the most conservative fundamentalist to the extreme liberal higher criticism.

I have held my own in theological discussions in a university classroom setting. I don't have a problem with Christianity or Genesis, but the literal interpretation of the (King James translation) book does not stand up to logic. It's a nice metaphor, but should not be taken literally.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[beowulf 1]

Quote

gain knowing what we choose is not the same as choosing for us. Ask any parent.

That doesn't make sense. Parents don't always know what their kids will do. They will have a better guess then most.

[beowulf 1]

If god were to know the future then the future would be set and there is no choice.

[steveorino 7]

Quote

I have held my own in theological discussions in a university classroom setting. I don't have a problem with Christianity or Genesis, but the literal interpretation of the (King James translation) book does not stand up to logic. It's a nice metaphor, but should not be taken literally.

I agree. As I said earlier, whether it is divinly inspired or not, it is literature and should be read as such.

steveOrino

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

I agree. As I said earlier, whether it is divinly inspired or not, it is literature and should be read as such.

I agree. I also believe that religion is not an acceptable replacement for science.

(I should also add that science, if they ever discover the unified field theory, may also show free will to be illusional.)

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[steveorino 7]

Let me hasten to say although it is literature and literary rules should apply, it doesn't mean it is false in its purpose.

steveOrino

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

Let me hasten to say although it is literature and literary rules should apply, it doesn't mean it is false in its purpose.

I believe the truthfulness is dependent upon the interpretation. If one interprets it as saying the earth was made in a day, it is absolutely false. If one interprets it to mean the earth has not always existed, I think that is very consistent with what we have evidence to support.

Likewise, if we interpret Adam and Eve to be the very first people, it makes the account false. If we interpret it as other creatures existed before man, and man evolved from them ("We created...") then it is more accurate.

Etc. Etc.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[steveorino 7]

First thing a theologian should do is ask what is the purpose of this book? If it is to be a science or history book than it should be held up to standards set for science and history books.

It is my opinion that the purpose of the Bible is to point us to Christ as a means to be made whole. (sometimes the Greek word for being made whole, sousa is interpreted as "saved")

steveOrino

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

First thing a theologian should do is ask what is the purpose of this book? If it is to be a science or history book than it should be held up to standards set for science and history books.

Agreed.

It is my opinion that the purpose of the Bible is to point us to Christ as a means to be made whole. (sometimes the Greek word for being made whole, sousa is interpreted as "saved")

[br0k3n 0]

Quote

Quote

"God's will" - typical cop-out when the facts contradict the idea of a loving caring god.

See, i don't buy this. The natural laws that God created like gravity and two things can't occupy the same place at the same time dictates accidents wil happen. My personal experience says God seldom intervenes into HIs natural laws. To say all things are God's will is not correct theologically.

Can you please list these "natural laws".

Now your not getting confused with the 4 known forces are you?

1. Gravity
2. Electromagnetic
3. The Strong Force
4. Weak Force

-----------------------------------------------------------
--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[br0k3n 0]

Quote

It is my opinion that the purpose of the Bible is to point us to Christ as a means to be made whole. (sometimes the Greek word for being made whole, sousa is interpreted as "saved")

Ok then, but why did God not just simply place a glowing cross in the sky, that way we would all know that he exists and not just blindly hope so....

-----------------------------------------------------------
--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[steveorino 7]

Quote

Quote

Quote

"God's will" - typical cop-out when the facts contradict the idea of a loving caring god.

See, i don't buy this. The natural laws that God created like gravity and two things can't occupy the same place at the same time dictates accidents wil happen. My personal experience says God seldom intervenes into HIs natural laws. To say all things are God's will is not correct theologically.

Can you please list these "natural laws".

Now your not getting confused with the 4 known forces are you?

1. Gravity
2. Electromagnetic
3. The Strong Force
4. Weak Force

I don't know what it is called, but I described it above.

steveOrino

[br0k3n 0]

Does your god have free will?

-----------------------------------------------------------
--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[steveorino 7]

sure

steveOrino

[steveorino 7]

Quote

Quote

It is my opinion that the purpose of the Bible is to point us to Christ as a means to be made whole. (sometimes the Greek word for being made whole, sousa is interpreted as "saved")

Ok then, but why did God not just simply place a glowing cross in the sky, that way we would all know that he exists and not just blindly hope so....

#1 Without faith you cannot experience God. Don't ask me why I have no answer other than that was how he planned it. (Heb 11:6)

#2 Even then people would attribute it to something else, say a flying spaghetti monster.

steveOrino

[steveorino 7]

First thing a theologian should do is ask what is the purpose of this book? If it is to be a science or history book than it should be held up to standards set for science and history books.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Agreed.

It is my opinion that the purpose of the Bible is to point us to Christ as a means to be made whole. (sometimes the Greek word for being made whole, sousa is interpreted as "saved")

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I also agree here. However, I disagree that the only way to become "whole" is through Christ. (You haven't made this claim, AFIK.) I think different religions accomplish this for different people. One is not better than another. Personally, I prefer the Eastern religions that lack deities.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote

Christ said he was the only way. I take him at his word. It is your perogative to not do so.

steveOrino

[br0k3n 0]

Quote

sure

No he doesnt, he cant have......

If you are all-knowing, you know your future actions, what choices you will make, and you cannot change them otherwise your knowledge would be wrong, and you wouldn't be all-knowing. An omniscient being has no free will to choose actions; all its actions are predetermined.

"There is a light switch on the wall; God may either turn it on, or leave it off; but, since God already knows the future, God knows that he will turn it on. That is part of his knowledge. But what if God exercises freewill, and chooses not to turn it on. Is this possible?"

-----------------------------------------------------------
--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[billvon 2,465]

>But what if God exercises freewill, and chooses not to turn it on. Is this possible?

I liked my stick paradox better.

[skysaintj 0]

Quote

Does your god have free will?

read (posted earlier) as well : this as an interesting view relating to your question :

http://www.vanderbilt.edu/~postjf/mcich4int.htm

If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it

[steveorino 7]

Quote

Quote

sure

No he doesnt, he cant have......

If you are all-knowing, you know your future actions, what choices you will make, and you cannot change them otherwise your knowledge would be wrong, and you wouldn't be all-knowing. An omniscient being has no free will to choose actions; all its actions are predetermined.

"There is a light switch on the wall; God may either turn it on, or leave it off; but, since God already knows the future, God knows that he will turn it on. That is part of his knowledge. But what if God exercises freewill, and chooses not to turn it on. Is this possible?"

Your argument goes back to the debate bewteen Calvinism and Arminism. There are two sides of the Christian camp. Calvinist and Arminians. You my friend are a Calvinist.

steveOrino

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

For those who are atheists, I have some questions for you:

What's the purpose of life?
What's the purpose of living? ( Staying alive?)

I don't know. But I don't really feel the need to have a "purpose" for living. I seem to be here for the experience - to learn and to feel. If there is a purpose to that, then it is a mystery to me, but the mystery makes it all the more intriguing.

Quote

Where do you turn to when everything in your life gets turned upside down?

Depends on the situation.

Quote

What hope do you have for things to change?

I'm not sure how to answer this question, because I'm not sure which "things" you are referring to.(?)

If you mean things that are bad in my life, I have witnessed myself and others make huge changes in life, so I believe that we all have the power to change ourselves for the better.

If you mean things that are bad in the world, I do not necessarily have hope that those things will change. All I can do is play my small part in making things better (according to my own perception of what is "better"), and then accept that I really have no control over the rest of the world.

Quote

What keeps you going everyday?

Mental stimulation, love, the mystery of life...

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

For those who are atheists, I have some questions for you:

What's the purpose of life? 42
What's the purpose of living? 42
Where do you turn to when everything in your life gets turned upside down? 42
What hope do you have for things to change? 42
What keeps you going everyday? 42

edited to add: I genuinely want to know. This post isn't meant to stir up controversy.

asked and answered

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

Quote

For those who are atheists, I have some questions for you:

What's the purpose of life? 42
What's the purpose of living? 42
Where do you turn to when everything in your life gets turned upside down? 42
What hope do you have for things to change? 42
What keeps you going everyday? 42

edited to add: I genuinely want to know. This post isn't meant to stir up controversy.

asked and answered

Ah, so the militant atheists have finally converted you?

Welcome to the club.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Ah, so the militant atheists have finally converted you?

Welcome to the club.

No way. Don't foist your hate agenda on me. I WON'T BE BRAINWASHED. NEVER!!!!

I'm a militant anti-bobist agnostic apethetic. (the Bob has let me down - mainly due to the fact that most Bob's don't really find Calvin and Hobbes that funny - C'mon Bob, it's all Calvin's imagination, he doesn't 'really' have a small live talking tiger for a pet..)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants