Tink1717 2 #101 September 16, 2006 Yeah, and they would do it all over again if they could. Never think a caged animal is a tame or friendly animal.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwtom 0 #102 September 16, 2006 QuoteComing from the head of an organization that is responsible for the inquisition and the crusades, his words are totally indefensible. only that those were not his words. ******************************************************************* Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #103 September 16, 2006 One his behalf..... QuoteIn a statement read out by a senior Vatican official, the Pope said he respected Islam and hoped Muslims would understand the true sense of his words. But of course it wont be enough for those that dont want it to be enough (if you know what I mean). (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
erakis 0 #104 September 16, 2006 It just shows now that coddling muslims is the new PC. They just ned reasons to be angry, and they'll be mad about something else if not that. They've been becoming the most sensitive group in the world. As a christian, i've seen Christianity as the butt of numerous jokes and critisism across the spectrum of the media. You don't see me taking to the streets in violent protest every time I see something desrespectful to Jesus. --------------------------------------------- " Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #105 September 16, 2006 I recognise a certain truth in what you said. It does sometimes seem that some of their members are currently the most vocal group in the media/world at the moment. . (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #106 September 16, 2006 QuoteThe response of believers to someone who throws the bullshit flag on religion is always amusing. Reducing the faith of over a billion Roman Catholics to a safe haven for pedophiles and a fairy tale is throwing the "bullshit flag?" I don't think so. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #107 September 16, 2006 QuoteIt just shows now that coddling muslims is the new PC. They just ned reasons to be angry, and they'll be mad about something else if not that. They've been becoming the most sensitive group in the world. As a christian, i've seen Christianity as the butt of numerous jokes and critisism across the spectrum of the media. You don't see me taking to the streets in violent protest every time I see something desrespectful to Jesus. And thats why people are disrespectfully about Jesus, because Christians didn't speak out and when people commited blasphamy, people like you didn't think it important enough to say anything or do anything (Not that I agree with violent protest). So now you'd see Muslims be ineffectual and place no value on God, their Prophet or religion either. How sad.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,279 #108 September 16, 2006 QuoteSo now you'd see Muslims be ineffectual and place no value on God, their Prophet or religion either. Far better than placing them on an untouchable pedestal, especially if every religion followed suit. Think of the stress reduction that would follow!Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amibovered 0 #109 September 16, 2006 Religion = man's weak minded need to believe in imortality. Religious wars and anger = man's evolutionary instinct to fight.What we know = we're just thinking, talking animals,who don't really know that much in the scheme of things,accept this.forget your silly books and I.F's,and live life, it might be the only one you get.If theirs a hell bellow, We're all gonna go. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #110 September 16, 2006 QuoteNo, a whole lot has changed. The church is no longer the seat of government (at least for the moment), the west is mostly christian and now the church only provides a safe haven for pedophiles. You mean homosexuals, don't you? Call 'em what they are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skyrad 0 #111 September 16, 2006 And because your a hetrosexual male I guess that makes you a rapist thenWhen an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tink1717 2 #112 September 16, 2006 QuoteReducing the faith of over a billion Roman Catholics to a safe haven for pedophiles and a fairy tale is throwing the "bullshit flag?" No, but believing in a middle eastern desert mythology IS. The strife that such belief brings is about as bullshit as it gets. Besides, there is more that enough evidence to support the accusation that the church, especially the catholic church, has systematically hidden, abetted and excused pedophile priests and other child abusers. There are so many new allegations that they are no longer front page news, but instead get relegated to the local pages or are not covered utnil they go to trial. That alone should be cause enough to throw the bullshit flag. Religion is bullshit, get used to it.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tink1717 2 #113 September 16, 2006 QuoteYou mean homosexuals, don't you? Call 'em what they are. No. Pedphilia has nothig to do with sexual orientation. Most pedophiles are straight. Look in the psych literature for the most accurate assesment of pedophilia.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skyrad 0 #114 September 16, 2006 For your information...When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #115 September 16, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou mean homosexuals, don't you? Call 'em what they are. No. Pedphilia has nothig to do with sexual orientation. Most pedophiles are straight. Look in the psych literature for the most accurate assesment of pedophilia. If you look a little deeper into the church's sex scandal, it's part true pedophilia and part post-pubescent homosexual attraction. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,279 #116 September 16, 2006 QuoteAnd many have done an immense amount of good. For example, we have our University system, something you should be thankful for, b/c of my particular brand... 'Cos my internet has been down for a while I've only just seen this and I'm going to back everyone up a bit. What do you mean when you say 'your brand' invented universities? We get the word acadaemia from a park in Athens where Plato founded a school of education in the 4th Century BC. As far as I am aware the first recognisable modern higher education faculties were mostly founded in India and the Islamic middle east. Do you know something different?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,679 #117 September 16, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote How cynical, hypocritical and arrogant. Just like a death cult, which is what islam really is. Now there I think you've gone too far. True, there is a substantial minority within Islam who have turned it into a death cult. However, I believe the majority does consider it a religion of peace. Unfortunately, they too often tend to be a silent majority. The muslims I have worked with are very peaceful people. More peaceful and indeed spiritual than many Christians I know. What were you saying about sample size in another thread? Not that I disagree with you, and maybe you should notify markharju of your observations, but try to be consistent.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #118 September 16, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote How cynical, hypocritical and arrogant. Just like a death cult, which is what islam really is. Now there I think you've gone too far. True, there is a substantial minority within Islam who have turned it into a death cult. However, I believe the majority does consider it a religion of peace. Unfortunately, they too often tend to be a silent majority. The muslims I have worked with are very peaceful people. More peaceful and indeed spiritual than many Christians I know. What were you saying about sample size in another thread? Not that I disagree with you, and maybe you should notify markharju of your observations, but try to be consistent. I'm not being inconsistent in the least. I'm only making observations, not generalizations based on limited observations. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #119 September 17, 2006 QuoteIt just shows now that coddling muslims is the new PC. Quite right. I see it as just another form of terrorism, you know? Sigh...bunch of churches set afire over this. Bunch of synagogues set on fire from the Israeli/Lebanon war. Seems that no holy place has any regard unless it's a Mosque. Pity, that. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,679 #120 September 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteIt just shows now that coddling muslims is the new PC. Quite right. I see it as just another form of terrorism, you know? Sigh...bunch of churches set afire over this. Bunch of synagogues set on fire from the Israeli/Lebanon war. Seems that no holy place has any regard unless it's a Mosque. Pity, that. Ciels- Michele What about mosques? Where have you been? www.minnesotamonitor.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=88 also In recent years American Muslims have witnessed an increase in the incidence of attacks on mosques by arsonists and vandals. On June 20th, Masjid Al-Noor in Memphis, Tenn., became the latest target, this time at the hands of an enraged neighbor. The suspect, who tried to enter the locked mosque, was said to have opened fire on the mosque with his shotgun, filling the door of the mosque with bullet holes. One Muslim man was wounded after being shot in the pelvis area by the suspect, who returned home to reload his shotgun. He was eventually arrested and charged by Memphis police. To the shock of the American Muslim community, he was released the following day on $25,000 bond. and many more.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #121 September 17, 2006 I don't think the Pope has really apologized; he (through spokesmen) has only "explained", and said that he finds this all very upsetting. Sometimes, in the interest of peace, if someone's offended at something you say, even if you didn't mean anything wrong, the best thing is just to UNEQUIVOCALLY say "Sorry" and move on. So why can't his staff stop giving out non-apology apologies? The offended parties want him - personally, not some spokesman - to say "I'm sorry", in just so many words. Is that really so hard? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #122 September 17, 2006 QuoteI don't think the Pope has really apologized; he (through spokesmen) has only "explained", and said that he finds this all very upsetting. Sometimes, in the interest of peace, if someone's offended at something you say, even if you didn't mean anything wrong, the best thing is just to UNEQUIVOCALLY say "Sorry" and move on. So why can't his staff stop giving out non-apology apologies? The offended parties want him - personally, not some spokesman - to say "I'm sorry", in just so many words. Is that really so hard? You have a very valid point and I think in the coming days we'll see exactly that. But you have to remember one thing about Rome, both the city and the Church therein... things move very slowly there... if there will be an official apology from Benedict, it will be not be hastily given. Another thing... I'm not so sure an apology will work nor would it be appropriate in this situation. I mean, look at the incredibly disproportionate (sp?) outrage for this whole incident. I really wonder if the only thing that would give them (the muslims in question and kallend ) satisfaction would be for Benedict to publically evicerate himself. They are calling for a recanting of something he didn't even say, but rather something that he quoted in a speech, as if doing so made it HIS thought, HIS belief. They aren't the same thing. Also, when radical muslims get their turbans in a wad about a perceived slight -when one was NOT EVEN THERE- and start making outrageous demands for the Pope to do this and that and the other, should he cowtow to these things? To me it would make him look like a bootlicking pawn. Should he attempt to open dialogue? Sheuld he continue to express regret and try to offer reconciliation b/t Christians and Muslims, like what JPII was so famous for who, remember, once kissed the Koran? Of course he should... and he will... I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #123 September 17, 2006 16-September-2006 -- Catholic News Agency POPE “SINCERELY REGRETS” THAT HIS WORDS HAVE OFFENDED Vatican City, Sep. 16, 2006 (CNA) - Pope Benedict XVI regrets that his recent comments have been misinterpreted in an offensive way, thus spurring outrage among many Muslims, according to the Vatican’s Secretary of State. On the second day in his job, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone released a statement clarifying that the Pontiff regards Muslims “respect and esteem,” and calling people to give his remarks a “complete and attentive” reading. Bertone said that it was necessary to release a statement in addition to the one released by the Director of the Holy See Press Office, due to the reaction by many Muslims to a short passage in the Pope’s recent address at the University of Regensburg. The reaction of the Muslim world has moved from the expression of displeasure by Muslim clerics to the burning of effigies of the Pope and attacks on Christian churches in the Middle East. The cardinal emphasized that Benedict holds the same position on Islam as the Church expressed in paragraph 3 of the Vatican II document “Nostra Aetate.” The document states that that the Church regards Muslims, “with esteem,” noting their adoration of “the one God” their honor for Jesus (who Muslims consider a prophet) and Mary, their valuing of the moral life, and attentiveness to prayer, almsgiving, and fasting. Benedict, Cardinal Bertone continued, wants to continue the inter-religious and inter-cultural dialogue that his predecessors began. In August of last year the Pope met with members of the Muslim community, telling them that, “We must seek paths of reconciliation and learn to live with respect for each other’s identity.” Protests in many Muslim countries began Thursday after Islamic clerics condemned the Pope’s words. Groups of angry Muslims gathered, chanting anti-Catholic slogans, holding signs, and burning images of Pope Benedict. This morning the Associated Press reported that groups of Palestinians, bearing guns and firebombs attacked five Christian churches on the West Bank, leaving bullet holes in the churches and charring walls and doors. The words which have spurred on such violence were not even the Pope’s own. Benedict very clearly noted that he was quoting the words of Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleaologus when he noted that the prophet Mohammed’s teachings on jihad were “evil and inhuman” and do not mesh with the earlier surah 2, 256 of the Quran which reads, “There is no compulsion in religion.” Bertone said that the Pope “did not mean, nor does he mean, to make (the opinion of the emperor) his own in any way.” The Pope was simply using the comments to speak “in an academic context” on the theme of “the relationship between religion and violence in general, and to conclude with a clear and radical rejection of the religious motivation for violence, from whatever side it may come,” Bertone said. He also noted that “a complete and attentive reading” of the Pope’s words make this evident and that the Pope has made similar statements against religious violence in the past. “The Holy Father thus sincerely regrets that certain passages of his address could have sounded offensive to the sensitivities of the Muslim faithful, and should have been interpreted in a manner that in no way corresponds to his intentions,” Bertone concluded, noting that it was in the same speech that the Pope himself warned secularized Western culture to have respect for religious cultures such as those in the Muslim world. Benedict told the West to guard against "the contempt for God and the cynicism that considers mockery of the sacred to be an exercise of freedom." “In reiterating his respect and esteem for those who profess Islam,” Bertone said, Pope Benedict, “hopes they will be helped to understand the correct meaning of his words so that, quickly surmounting this present uneasy moment, witness to the ‘Creator of heaven and earth, Who has spoken to men’ may be reinforced, and collaboration may intensify ‘to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom.’” I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #124 September 17, 2006 here's something that just pisses me off in the media... CNN's latest headline about this situation w/ the Pope is this... "Pope concerned, not apologizing for Islam remarks" The bias in this is just so glaring it's sickening. First, he's not merely "concerned." To simply say he's concerned about this situation is a gross understatement and ignores ever subsequent statement that has come forth from the Vatican since the original speech occurred. But I shouldn't be surprise for such a characterization coming from this particular news agency. It also adds flavor (of the gasoline kind) to the second part of their headline. Second, declaring that he is "not apologizing" is inaccurate at best and negligent at worst. He has NOT said that he is not apologizing. He has yet to come out and say "I'm sorry" for what he said, but he has, through his spokesman, done about everything else. But that is entirely different from saying he is NOT apologizing. He has said several times how he deeply regrets what has happened and that his words have offended. Does that mean nothing to these people? Evidently not. As I said previously, it would seem that these misrepresented parts of the Pope's speech are proving to be quite prophetic, aren't they. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rasmack 0 #125 September 17, 2006 Quotehere's something that just pisses me off in the media... CNN's latest headline about this situation w/ the Pope is this... "Pope concerned, not apologizing for Islam remarks" Yup. Saw that too. When are they going to get it through their fat skulls that he has nothing to apologize for? They deliberately took his quote out of context and misinterpreted it.HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next Page 5 of 9 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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Skyrad 0 #111 September 16, 2006 And because your a hetrosexual male I guess that makes you a rapist thenWhen an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #112 September 16, 2006 QuoteReducing the faith of over a billion Roman Catholics to a safe haven for pedophiles and a fairy tale is throwing the "bullshit flag?" No, but believing in a middle eastern desert mythology IS. The strife that such belief brings is about as bullshit as it gets. Besides, there is more that enough evidence to support the accusation that the church, especially the catholic church, has systematically hidden, abetted and excused pedophile priests and other child abusers. There are so many new allegations that they are no longer front page news, but instead get relegated to the local pages or are not covered utnil they go to trial. That alone should be cause enough to throw the bullshit flag. Religion is bullshit, get used to it.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #113 September 16, 2006 QuoteYou mean homosexuals, don't you? Call 'em what they are. No. Pedphilia has nothig to do with sexual orientation. Most pedophiles are straight. Look in the psych literature for the most accurate assesment of pedophilia.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #114 September 16, 2006 For your information...When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #115 September 16, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou mean homosexuals, don't you? Call 'em what they are. No. Pedphilia has nothig to do with sexual orientation. Most pedophiles are straight. Look in the psych literature for the most accurate assesment of pedophilia. If you look a little deeper into the church's sex scandal, it's part true pedophilia and part post-pubescent homosexual attraction. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,279 #116 September 16, 2006 QuoteAnd many have done an immense amount of good. For example, we have our University system, something you should be thankful for, b/c of my particular brand... 'Cos my internet has been down for a while I've only just seen this and I'm going to back everyone up a bit. What do you mean when you say 'your brand' invented universities? We get the word acadaemia from a park in Athens where Plato founded a school of education in the 4th Century BC. As far as I am aware the first recognisable modern higher education faculties were mostly founded in India and the Islamic middle east. Do you know something different?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,679 #117 September 16, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote How cynical, hypocritical and arrogant. Just like a death cult, which is what islam really is. Now there I think you've gone too far. True, there is a substantial minority within Islam who have turned it into a death cult. However, I believe the majority does consider it a religion of peace. Unfortunately, they too often tend to be a silent majority. The muslims I have worked with are very peaceful people. More peaceful and indeed spiritual than many Christians I know. What were you saying about sample size in another thread? Not that I disagree with you, and maybe you should notify markharju of your observations, but try to be consistent.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #118 September 16, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote How cynical, hypocritical and arrogant. Just like a death cult, which is what islam really is. Now there I think you've gone too far. True, there is a substantial minority within Islam who have turned it into a death cult. However, I believe the majority does consider it a religion of peace. Unfortunately, they too often tend to be a silent majority. The muslims I have worked with are very peaceful people. More peaceful and indeed spiritual than many Christians I know. What were you saying about sample size in another thread? Not that I disagree with you, and maybe you should notify markharju of your observations, but try to be consistent. I'm not being inconsistent in the least. I'm only making observations, not generalizations based on limited observations. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #119 September 17, 2006 QuoteIt just shows now that coddling muslims is the new PC. Quite right. I see it as just another form of terrorism, you know? Sigh...bunch of churches set afire over this. Bunch of synagogues set on fire from the Israeli/Lebanon war. Seems that no holy place has any regard unless it's a Mosque. Pity, that. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,679 #120 September 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteIt just shows now that coddling muslims is the new PC. Quite right. I see it as just another form of terrorism, you know? Sigh...bunch of churches set afire over this. Bunch of synagogues set on fire from the Israeli/Lebanon war. Seems that no holy place has any regard unless it's a Mosque. Pity, that. Ciels- Michele What about mosques? Where have you been? www.minnesotamonitor.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=88 also In recent years American Muslims have witnessed an increase in the incidence of attacks on mosques by arsonists and vandals. On June 20th, Masjid Al-Noor in Memphis, Tenn., became the latest target, this time at the hands of an enraged neighbor. The suspect, who tried to enter the locked mosque, was said to have opened fire on the mosque with his shotgun, filling the door of the mosque with bullet holes. One Muslim man was wounded after being shot in the pelvis area by the suspect, who returned home to reload his shotgun. He was eventually arrested and charged by Memphis police. To the shock of the American Muslim community, he was released the following day on $25,000 bond. and many more.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #121 September 17, 2006 I don't think the Pope has really apologized; he (through spokesmen) has only "explained", and said that he finds this all very upsetting. Sometimes, in the interest of peace, if someone's offended at something you say, even if you didn't mean anything wrong, the best thing is just to UNEQUIVOCALLY say "Sorry" and move on. So why can't his staff stop giving out non-apology apologies? The offended parties want him - personally, not some spokesman - to say "I'm sorry", in just so many words. Is that really so hard? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #122 September 17, 2006 QuoteI don't think the Pope has really apologized; he (through spokesmen) has only "explained", and said that he finds this all very upsetting. Sometimes, in the interest of peace, if someone's offended at something you say, even if you didn't mean anything wrong, the best thing is just to UNEQUIVOCALLY say "Sorry" and move on. So why can't his staff stop giving out non-apology apologies? The offended parties want him - personally, not some spokesman - to say "I'm sorry", in just so many words. Is that really so hard? You have a very valid point and I think in the coming days we'll see exactly that. But you have to remember one thing about Rome, both the city and the Church therein... things move very slowly there... if there will be an official apology from Benedict, it will be not be hastily given. Another thing... I'm not so sure an apology will work nor would it be appropriate in this situation. I mean, look at the incredibly disproportionate (sp?) outrage for this whole incident. I really wonder if the only thing that would give them (the muslims in question and kallend ) satisfaction would be for Benedict to publically evicerate himself. They are calling for a recanting of something he didn't even say, but rather something that he quoted in a speech, as if doing so made it HIS thought, HIS belief. They aren't the same thing. Also, when radical muslims get their turbans in a wad about a perceived slight -when one was NOT EVEN THERE- and start making outrageous demands for the Pope to do this and that and the other, should he cowtow to these things? To me it would make him look like a bootlicking pawn. Should he attempt to open dialogue? Sheuld he continue to express regret and try to offer reconciliation b/t Christians and Muslims, like what JPII was so famous for who, remember, once kissed the Koran? Of course he should... and he will... I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #123 September 17, 2006 16-September-2006 -- Catholic News Agency POPE “SINCERELY REGRETS” THAT HIS WORDS HAVE OFFENDED Vatican City, Sep. 16, 2006 (CNA) - Pope Benedict XVI regrets that his recent comments have been misinterpreted in an offensive way, thus spurring outrage among many Muslims, according to the Vatican’s Secretary of State. On the second day in his job, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone released a statement clarifying that the Pontiff regards Muslims “respect and esteem,” and calling people to give his remarks a “complete and attentive” reading. Bertone said that it was necessary to release a statement in addition to the one released by the Director of the Holy See Press Office, due to the reaction by many Muslims to a short passage in the Pope’s recent address at the University of Regensburg. The reaction of the Muslim world has moved from the expression of displeasure by Muslim clerics to the burning of effigies of the Pope and attacks on Christian churches in the Middle East. The cardinal emphasized that Benedict holds the same position on Islam as the Church expressed in paragraph 3 of the Vatican II document “Nostra Aetate.” The document states that that the Church regards Muslims, “with esteem,” noting their adoration of “the one God” their honor for Jesus (who Muslims consider a prophet) and Mary, their valuing of the moral life, and attentiveness to prayer, almsgiving, and fasting. Benedict, Cardinal Bertone continued, wants to continue the inter-religious and inter-cultural dialogue that his predecessors began. In August of last year the Pope met with members of the Muslim community, telling them that, “We must seek paths of reconciliation and learn to live with respect for each other’s identity.” Protests in many Muslim countries began Thursday after Islamic clerics condemned the Pope’s words. Groups of angry Muslims gathered, chanting anti-Catholic slogans, holding signs, and burning images of Pope Benedict. This morning the Associated Press reported that groups of Palestinians, bearing guns and firebombs attacked five Christian churches on the West Bank, leaving bullet holes in the churches and charring walls and doors. The words which have spurred on such violence were not even the Pope’s own. Benedict very clearly noted that he was quoting the words of Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleaologus when he noted that the prophet Mohammed’s teachings on jihad were “evil and inhuman” and do not mesh with the earlier surah 2, 256 of the Quran which reads, “There is no compulsion in religion.” Bertone said that the Pope “did not mean, nor does he mean, to make (the opinion of the emperor) his own in any way.” The Pope was simply using the comments to speak “in an academic context” on the theme of “the relationship between religion and violence in general, and to conclude with a clear and radical rejection of the religious motivation for violence, from whatever side it may come,” Bertone said. He also noted that “a complete and attentive reading” of the Pope’s words make this evident and that the Pope has made similar statements against religious violence in the past. “The Holy Father thus sincerely regrets that certain passages of his address could have sounded offensive to the sensitivities of the Muslim faithful, and should have been interpreted in a manner that in no way corresponds to his intentions,” Bertone concluded, noting that it was in the same speech that the Pope himself warned secularized Western culture to have respect for religious cultures such as those in the Muslim world. Benedict told the West to guard against "the contempt for God and the cynicism that considers mockery of the sacred to be an exercise of freedom." “In reiterating his respect and esteem for those who profess Islam,” Bertone said, Pope Benedict, “hopes they will be helped to understand the correct meaning of his words so that, quickly surmounting this present uneasy moment, witness to the ‘Creator of heaven and earth, Who has spoken to men’ may be reinforced, and collaboration may intensify ‘to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom.’” I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #124 September 17, 2006 here's something that just pisses me off in the media... CNN's latest headline about this situation w/ the Pope is this... "Pope concerned, not apologizing for Islam remarks" The bias in this is just so glaring it's sickening. First, he's not merely "concerned." To simply say he's concerned about this situation is a gross understatement and ignores ever subsequent statement that has come forth from the Vatican since the original speech occurred. But I shouldn't be surprise for such a characterization coming from this particular news agency. It also adds flavor (of the gasoline kind) to the second part of their headline. Second, declaring that he is "not apologizing" is inaccurate at best and negligent at worst. He has NOT said that he is not apologizing. He has yet to come out and say "I'm sorry" for what he said, but he has, through his spokesman, done about everything else. But that is entirely different from saying he is NOT apologizing. He has said several times how he deeply regrets what has happened and that his words have offended. Does that mean nothing to these people? Evidently not. As I said previously, it would seem that these misrepresented parts of the Pope's speech are proving to be quite prophetic, aren't they. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasmack 0 #125 September 17, 2006 Quotehere's something that just pisses me off in the media... CNN's latest headline about this situation w/ the Pope is this... "Pope concerned, not apologizing for Islam remarks" Yup. Saw that too. When are they going to get it through their fat skulls that he has nothing to apologize for? They deliberately took his quote out of context and misinterpreted it.HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
