kelpdiver 2 #51 August 22, 2006 Quote Maybe to stop the UN observation posts from observing? Maybe to strike fear in any one who chooses to show Israel for what it really is? Maybe to show they have no mercy to anyone that disagrees with them or shows them in a light they do not want to be viewed in? All of the above. Are we talking about Israel or Iran here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #52 August 22, 2006 QuoteMaybe to stop the UN observation posts from observing? Maybe to strike fear in any one who chooses to show Israel for what it really is? Maybe to show they have no mercy to anyone that disagrees with them or shows them in a light they do not want to be viewed in?Maybe this is a war, and the chickenshit Hezbollah constantly shield themselves with civilian targets. All is fair in love and war. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #53 August 22, 2006 Quote Israel has nothing to gain from destroying a UN outpost. Previously I sent a link to the reports from that UN post that pointed out the number of times that Israel antagonized Lebanon with their military fighters. I should probably read the rest of it to see what else it contains. What would Israel have to gain by blowing up the UN post? Witnesses to a military incursion for which Israel was being heavily criticized. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #54 August 22, 2006 QuoteWhat would Israel have to gain by blowing up the UN post? Witnesses to a military incursion for which Israel was being heavily criticized that's weak... especially when all of Lebanon was full of international media and reporters (often given orders by Hezbollah personnel on what to film). "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #55 August 22, 2006 what would you say about this: Romanian oil rig attacked by Iran or is it only israel who is guilty by default until proven otherwise? "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #56 August 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteMaybe to stop the UN observation posts from observing? Maybe to strike fear in any one who chooses to show Israel for what it really is? Maybe to show they have no mercy to anyone that disagrees with them or shows them in a light they do not want to be viewed in?Maybe this is a war, and the chickenshit Hezbollah constantly shield themselves with civilian targets. All is fair in love and war. We all know only Israelis are allowed to do that. We also see how they treated a UN building marked UN with white flags. Oh yea and the BIG RED PLUS SIGHN that doesn’t stand for plus Hezbollah.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #57 August 22, 2006 QuoteThe 13,000-tonne Orizont rig has 26 people on board and has been in Iranian waters since October last year. I think the key word there is Iranian waters acording to your artical. I wonder what would happen if Israel stayed within it’s borders. Would be niceI'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #58 August 22, 2006 How many times has Iran started a war in the past 50 years? Let’s make it a 100 fuck make it as long as you want? How many Iranian tanks have you seen roaming on other people’s land? How many UN buildings has Iran bombed? Iran even after it’s Islamic revaluation has not caused near as much destruction as Israel or the United States. Not to mention in the Iran and Iraq war )which was started by Iraq) it had to fight the whole world as Sadam was being supplied by everyone. You brought up a good comparison. Iran is viewed by the west as this dangerous country filled with crazy people who want kill everyone but when you look at there history they are much more peace loving then Israel or many other western countries who claim to be peaceful.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #59 August 22, 2006 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The 13,000-tonne Orizont rig has 26 people on board and has been in Iranian waters since October last year. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think the key word there is Iranian waters acording to your artical. I wonder what would happen if Israel stayed within it’s borders. Would be nice lets be clear about something. i didn't accuse Iran of anything because the details are still unknown. my point is that some people here give the benefit of the doubt to anyone but when it comes to Israel, they are guilty until (and sometimes even if) proven innocent. and beside that, according to a Romanian source there was a commercial dispute between the Iranians and the Romanian company. now, whether it was the reason or was it a mistake, lets wait and see. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #60 August 22, 2006 QuoteHow many times has Iran started a war in the past 50 years? I'm sure you see it as "supporting the weak and needy" but their ongoing support of Hamas and Hezbollah is starting and fueling a war, they just send others to fight QuoteIran is viewed by the west as this dangerous country filled with crazy people who want kill everyone no, not filled with crazy people, just a selected few with a crazy leadership. and that leadership is pretty open about its wishes "to kill everyone", at least in Israel. in case you don't know, Israel and Iran were close friends before the revolution, so my problem is with the Iranian leaders, not the people. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #61 August 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhat would Israel have to gain by blowing up the UN post? Witnesses to a military incursion for which Israel was being heavily criticized that's weak... especially when all of Lebanon was full of international media and reporters (often given orders by Hezbollah personnel on what to film). That's far from weak. I can't come up with any other reasonable explanation considering that there were phone calls from UNIFIL to the IDF all day long telling them to cut it out. It looks to me like it was pretty deliberate. And if not, if somehow it was an accident then that complete destroys the claim that I hear over here in America that the IDF strikes with surgical precision and was only taking out Hezbollah targets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #62 August 22, 2006 Quotewhat would you say about this: Romanian oil rig attacked by Iran or is it only israel who is guilty by default until proven otherwise? In case you haven't read all of my posts the reason that I criticize Israel is that there are WAY too many apologists for them over here who are too ready to put all of the blame on the the Arabs. Israel is just as guilty of propagating this conflict and I try to provide some balance to the debate. As for your article, I don't know what to think of it yet. There's not a lot of information. Hell, as far as I know my President dressed up a helicopter and sent it out there so that he can find a reason to go to war with Iran. I'm joking, but only just a little bit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #63 August 22, 2006 Quote can't come up with any other reasonable explanation considering that there were phone calls from UNIFIL to the IDF all day long telling them to cut it out. It looks to me like it was pretty deliberate. And if not, what you're doing is a basic investigation mistake. you assume a conclusion and then you build a case that will lead to it, proving the pre chosen conclusion. Quoteif somehow it was an accident then that complete destroys the claim that I hear over here in America that the IDF strikes with surgical precision and was only taking out Hezbollah targets. no it doesn't, having precision weapons is as effective and the precision of your target and if Hezbollah is firing rockets from houses or roam about a UN compound, it is very likely that these "non targets" will be hit too. the difference is who you are trying to hit. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #64 August 22, 2006 Quote what you're doing is a basic investigation mistake. you assume a conclusion and then you build a case that will lead to it, proving the pre chosen conclusion. Well very few people investigate Israeli action. They typically take the military's word for it. Palestinians and Lebanese on the other hand, that's a different story. They're guilty until.....well to read about it here they're always guilty. Quote no it doesn't, having precision weapons is as effective and the precision of your target and if Hezbollah is firing rockets from houses or roam about a UN compound, it is very likely that these "non targets" will be hit too. the difference is who you are trying to hit. When you take out entire city blocks and using cluster bombs that seems like they're not trying to be too discriminate. Besides, the plan, as written down and presented by Israel was to make things so bad for the Lebanese that they would hopefully turn on Hezbollah. That was in the powerpoint presentation that they presented a year ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites falxori 0 #65 August 22, 2006 QuoteWell very few people investigate Israeli action right, they usually jump to the conclusion that Israel is guilty. investigation takes time, and by the time its finished no one cares anymore. I have many examples for you where something is "public knowledge" although it was later on proven as false. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites idrankwhat 0 #66 August 22, 2006 Quote right, they usually jump to the conclusion that Israel is guilty. Not over here they don't. It's just the opposite. Actually, this conflict with Lebanon is notable becase it's the first time that I can remember where the media here in the US has spent any time at all talking about the damage that Israel has caused. They still spin in favor of Israel but not nearly as badly has they have in the past. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #67 August 22, 2006 Quote You brought up a good comparison. Iran is viewed by the west as this dangerous country filled with crazy people who want kill everyone but when you look at there history they are much more peace loving then Israel or many other western countries who claim to be peaceful. Of course the West views Iran this way. Its leadership talks (within the last year, not 40 years ago) about wiping Israel off the planet. Couple that with its (imo, understandable) drive to develope nuclear weapons, and 'peace loving' isn't the conclusion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,625 #68 August 22, 2006 QuoteQuote You brought up a good comparison. Iran is viewed by the west as this dangerous country filled with crazy people who want kill everyone but when you look at there history they are much more peace loving then Israel or many other western countries who claim to be peaceful. Of course the West views Iran this way. Its leadership talks (within the last year, not 40 years ago) about wiping Israel off the planet. Couple that with its (imo, understandable) drive to develope nuclear weapons, and 'peace loving' isn't the conclusion. And the USA preaches peace while invading other nations on a roughly decennial cycle, and has the world's largest nuclear arsenal. Ot the whole I'd think the US is scarier than Iran to an impartial observer.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #69 August 22, 2006 >Couple that with its (imo, understandable) drive to develope nuclear >weapons, and 'peace loving' isn't the conclusion. Agreed. They are, however, far more peace-loving than we are. After all, only one country, ever, has used nuclear weapons against civilians - and it ain't the Iranians. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #70 August 22, 2006 Quote And the USA preaches peace while invading other nations on a roughly decennial cycle, and has the world's largest nuclear arsenal. Ot the whole I'd think the US is scarier than Iran to an impartial observer. while true, is it revelent to the question of Israel v Iran? Only by our aid might it be so, otherwise it's a diversion to the question at hand. The US, while prone to displacing political leaderships, has no stated intent of wiping out a nation. Not even George. (and it's a good thing, since we are fully able to do it) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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falxori 0 #65 August 22, 2006 QuoteWell very few people investigate Israeli action right, they usually jump to the conclusion that Israel is guilty. investigation takes time, and by the time its finished no one cares anymore. I have many examples for you where something is "public knowledge" although it was later on proven as false. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #66 August 22, 2006 Quote right, they usually jump to the conclusion that Israel is guilty. Not over here they don't. It's just the opposite. Actually, this conflict with Lebanon is notable becase it's the first time that I can remember where the media here in the US has spent any time at all talking about the damage that Israel has caused. They still spin in favor of Israel but not nearly as badly has they have in the past. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #67 August 22, 2006 Quote You brought up a good comparison. Iran is viewed by the west as this dangerous country filled with crazy people who want kill everyone but when you look at there history they are much more peace loving then Israel or many other western countries who claim to be peaceful. Of course the West views Iran this way. Its leadership talks (within the last year, not 40 years ago) about wiping Israel off the planet. Couple that with its (imo, understandable) drive to develope nuclear weapons, and 'peace loving' isn't the conclusion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,625 #68 August 22, 2006 QuoteQuote You brought up a good comparison. Iran is viewed by the west as this dangerous country filled with crazy people who want kill everyone but when you look at there history they are much more peace loving then Israel or many other western countries who claim to be peaceful. Of course the West views Iran this way. Its leadership talks (within the last year, not 40 years ago) about wiping Israel off the planet. Couple that with its (imo, understandable) drive to develope nuclear weapons, and 'peace loving' isn't the conclusion. And the USA preaches peace while invading other nations on a roughly decennial cycle, and has the world's largest nuclear arsenal. Ot the whole I'd think the US is scarier than Iran to an impartial observer.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #69 August 22, 2006 >Couple that with its (imo, understandable) drive to develope nuclear >weapons, and 'peace loving' isn't the conclusion. Agreed. They are, however, far more peace-loving than we are. After all, only one country, ever, has used nuclear weapons against civilians - and it ain't the Iranians. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #70 August 22, 2006 Quote And the USA preaches peace while invading other nations on a roughly decennial cycle, and has the world's largest nuclear arsenal. Ot the whole I'd think the US is scarier than Iran to an impartial observer. while true, is it revelent to the question of Israel v Iran? Only by our aid might it be so, otherwise it's a diversion to the question at hand. The US, while prone to displacing political leaderships, has no stated intent of wiping out a nation. Not even George. (and it's a good thing, since we are fully able to do it) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
