Time to legalize performance enhancing drugs?

[lawrocket 3]

I'm actually thinking that it is.

If you look around and do any degree of review of athletics, it seems that sports themselves have lost legitimacy. Track and Field? Is there any winning performance anymore that isn't suspected of being drug related? Not that it is surprising.

I remember watching the summer Olympics a couple of years ago and wondering why so many sprinters had braces. Then I randomly saw some article about a girl who had braces and treatment was being messed up by therapeutic intake of human growth hormone, which caused her head and face bones to grow. Then I reckoned, "You can tell the HGH users by braces." My own little unscientific thought.

Track and field has a horrible time with doping. Ben Johnson losing his gold. Carl Lewis's gold medal he got from Ben Johnson's disqual woul dhave been stripped had he not waited 15 years before admitting to testing hot for stimulants. Linford Christie, who moved from Bronze to Silver, later had a doping scandal. The Dennis Mitchell, who placed fourth in the race, was also banned a decade later for doping.

Cycling, as well, is just about as dirty as you get. It's been a problem. Nothing has stopped it. Everybody is suspect from Landis and Armstrong to Hamilton, ullrich and Basso - huge names in cycling. Marco Pantani had an issue with it. As much as LeMond gabs, you gotta think he was involved, though like most he never "knowingly ingested" a banned substance.

I even recall that the 2004 Olympic's equestrian was scandal laden due to doping up horses.

Which is more corrupt? Cycling? Track and field or baseball? Nordic skiing or

I'll hand it to soccer - at least its scandals are cocaine related or dealing with fixing games. Kinda like boxing.

My thought is that we should just stop with the testing. Mandatory testing hasn't done anythign to legitimize sports. Allegations that Armstrong has been doped will linger despite testing clean all along. And I gotta think, how does a guy win seven in a row in the dirtiest sport out there?

Why the heck SHOULDN'T we legalize doping in sports? Those Tour de France cyclists are adults. If the 5'6" power lifter wants to have a hat size rivaling Andre the Giant, let him. Or her. If the female sprinter has put so much testosterone in her that she grows a penis, why not say, "Go for it!"

At least it'll put people on an even playing ground.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Gawain 0]

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I'm actually thinking that it is.

I'm actually thinking that is is not.

Besides, most drugs turn people into assholes and the sporting kingdom has enough asshats in it as it is.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[BIGUN 1,060]

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At least it'll put people on an even playing ground.

So would removing the use of performance enhancing drugs.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Shotgun 1]

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Why the heck SHOULDN'T we legalize doping in sports?

Because then we'll have even more parents giving these drugs to their children.

[kallend 1,634]

What exactly do you expect in a society that teaches its children to worship sports winners but not know who the leader of the neighboring country is, or know who won a Nobel Prize last year. You get what you value.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[nathaniel 0]

North Korea is suspected of running drugs for cash, right?

They could spin it as an attempt to curtail North Korea's access to currency And who knows with proper access to treatment we may even see a decline in hardcore drug abuse.

Which does the bible belt hate more: drugs or North Korea?

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[kelpdiver 2]

when you you become french?

Surrender is the lazy solution. And it results in many more super athletes dropping dead in their 20s (like Pantani). And as suggested, many parents abusing their kids.

Drug claims aside, LA came in with a different approach to the Tour - focusing all energy on this one month of the year, preriding the stages, spending a lot of r&d time in wind tunnels and building up a team of 8 with his success as their mission. Some other teams do this now (CSC would have for Basso), others like TMobile are too hopelessly scatterbrained to pull out a win.

[FallRate 0]

I'm thinking it's time that we put down the remotes...cancel the season tickets...take down the posters...rip the bumper stickers off the car...grab a ball, puck, bike, whatever and actually start participating in sport.

Grab a kid and throw a ball. And instead of drilling that poor soul with the basics of whatever sport we happen to prefer, make sure she gets some exercise and still has enough energy left to do her homework.

(Of course, I do realize that I am preaching to the converted. If there is one common thread among skydivers, it is the unwillingness to sit back and derive gratification solely from the accomplishments of others.)

Just a thought.

FallRate

[MarkF 0]

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At least it'll put people on an even playing ground.

Let's go a step further and have two sets of games, races, whatever. An "off yer face" set and a "no enhancements allowed" set. Of course you'd have to take a bit of care in setting up the sites for the throwing type sports - javelin, shot put, hammer throw, etc. but it'd be interesting to see just how far performance enhancing stuff of all natures could take human performance...:-)

Ooroo
Mark F...

[SkyDekker 1,129]

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Time to legalize performance enhancing drugs?

I'm actually thinking that it is.

Great, so at what age do you think it should be legal?

Do you think it would be okay for parents to dope up their kids in the hope of making it big?

[Richards 0]

I repeatedly hear about athletes receiving penalties for this sort of thing yet I do not see much coverage about coaches and trainers receiving similar penalties (not to say it isn't happenning). I have a hard time beleiving that these athletes could be doing this without their trainers cooperation. Why not allow the governing bodies to assume that coaches are aware of all drugs that their athletes use and provide tougher penalties including lifetime bans for coaches who's athletes test positive?

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[SkyDekker 1,129]

why not just a lifetime ban on athletes using it......

[warpedskydiver 0]

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What exactly do you expect in a society that teaches its children to worship sports winners but not know who the leader of the neighboring country is, or know who won a Nobel Prize last year. You get what you value.

Hroes are people who survived doing miraculous things, not an athlete who cashes his paycheck.

[Richards 0]

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why not just a lifetime ban on athletes using it......

Because coaches push thier athletes to do it ( not in any way excusing the athletes, they should be punished to), but so long as the coaches can attain glory having their athletes do this while downloading the risk of consequences to the athletes, they will not have any incentive to stop pushing this onto their athletes.

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[jakee 1,257]

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but so long as the coaches can attain glory having their athletes do this while downloading the risk of consequences to the athletes, they will not have any incentive to stop pushing this onto their athletes.

Michael Johnson made this same comment about the latest doper (Justin Gatlin). His opinion was that Gatlin's coach should also be handed a lifetime ban, seeing as he has a history of working with doped up athletes. I've got to agree with him there.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[brierebecca 0]

I'm not sure I understand your argument. I think what you're saying is that because doping is such a huge and prevalent problem, and we're never going to be able to fix it, we should just give up and legalize it.

I've never found these arguments convincing. It's the "it's too hard, so we're just going to stop trying to control it" line of thinking.

On the other hand, if you're arguing for legalization because people should be able to do whatever they want to their bodies, this issue could be an interesting one to examine. But where do you draw the line? Should college students be able to take crystal meth or unprescribed aderol to do well on exams?

At this point, cycling and track and field would be less about actual talent and more about who is willing to ingest what in order to win. As a former college track athlete (with bad knees because of a few too many cortizone shots), I'd really like to see it be about strength of will and natural talent, rather than the quality of one's performance enhancing drugs.

Brie

"Ive seen you hump air, hump the floor of the plane, and hump legs. You now have a new nickname: "Black Humper of Death"--yardhippie

[nathaniel 0]

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It's the "it's too hard, so we're just going to stop trying to control it" line of thinking.

Close. It's the "we do more damage vainly trying to stamp it out rather than by permitting and controlling it" line of thinking.

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[pajarito 0]

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Why the heck SHOULDN'T we legalize doping in sports?

Because of the following. Especially, the ones concerning vital organs:

Men
- Reduced sperm count
- Impotence
- Development of breasts
- Shrinking of the testicles
- Difficulty or pain while urinating

Women
- Facial hair growth
- Deepened voice
- Breast reduction
- Menstrual cycle changes

Both
- Acne
- Bloated appearance
- Rapid weight gain
- Clotting disorders
- Liver damage
- Premature heart attacks and strokes
- Elevated cholesterol levels
- Weakened tendons

Other
- Behavioral side-effects
- Psychological addiction
- Can affect growth in adolescents

Anabolic Steroids

[Steel 0]

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Time to legalize performance enhancing drugs?

I'm actually thinking that it is.

Great, so at what age do you think it should be legal?

Do you think it would be okay for parents to dope up their kids in the hope of making it big?

Doping up a kid with performance enhancing drugs is stupid because, they are naturally producing 2-300 milligrams of testoserone weekly, which is enough to improve they condition through exercise. Also doping a kid will cause other serious harmful effects, such as closing of growth plates.
A full grown adult using perfomance enhancing drugs is an entirely different story. It helps when you clear all the bull shit and propaganda to get a real understanding of the true effects. I see it quite similar to lipo-sucktion. Some people eat like fools and then get lipo and then get fat again. Lipo for them is un-appropiate and gives a false sense of satisfaction. But what about the girl that diets correctly looses weight but when her waist looks decent, she has no tits or ass. At this point lipo may be her only choice.
Now back to performance enhancing drugs/steroids whatever you want to call them. Take somebody like Arnold Schwarzeneggar: For anybody who doesn't know, he did indeed use steroids and it was perfectly legal for him to do so in the 70's.
However, he did not wake up one day and say, I want to have the best body in the planet so this injection will do it for me. As a matter of fact it wouldn't under any circumstances. It took GENETICS, countless hours/days/years in the gym working out as hard as he could, eating & resting properly, and finally using a safe amount of performance enhancing drugs to get where he got to.

In the end it was his decision and it was not made without consideration. This does not mean that everybody who uses has thought it through carefully, just as not everybody who has had lipo has attempted to accomplish their desired appearance through diet. For this reason, I believe steroids should be legal as performance/appearance enhancing drugs with a doctor's prescription. This is what the AMA (American Medical association) wanted when all the idiots were lobbying congress to make them illegal in 1987 and when they lobbied congress to criminalize them in 1990.
A sports doctor will know if the person has exceeded their natural capability and will be able to make a safety assement to determine if the risk is valid. For instance no doctor would ever prescribe steroids to somebody will a pre-exsiting high colesterol or anybody under 23.
,

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[Steel 0]

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Why the heck SHOULDN'T we legalize doping in sports?

Because of the following. Especially, the ones concerning vital organs:

Men
- Reduced sperm count
thats funny and bull shit.
- Impotence
IBID
- Development of breasts
Not all types aromitize, but I will give you that some do.

- Shrinking of the testicles
only temporarily because the high amount of testoserone causes the testes to stop working. However they don't stay on for ever, they do it in cycles and use PCT post cycle therapy to restart it.

- Difficulty or pain while urinating
this is bull shit
Women
- Facial hair growth
this is true, but don't you think its obvious that a woman should not be taking MALE hormones, which is what steroids are.

- Deepened voice
IBID
- Breast reduction
Not true, unless she is dieting and loosing severe amounts of fat, in which case without the steroids, the same thing would occur.

- Menstrual cycle changes
this is true, but don't you think its obvious that a woman should not be taking MALE hormones, which is what steroids are.


Both
- Acne
not all of them but some.
- Bloated appearance
IBID
- Rapid weight gain
Not true, as a matter of fact many types are using for cutting (loosing weight while preserving muscle)
- Clotting disorders
Doctors prescription needed would help determine who is prone.
- Liver damage
Bull shit, this is only with orals. Injectibles bipass the liver.
- Premature heart attacks and strokes
Only with pre-existing conditions or prolonged cycles not allowing colesterol to go down.
- Elevated cholesterol levels
IBID
- Weakened tendons
only if overdone
Other
- Behavioral side-effects
This is totally not proven but speculated. Its hard to prove something when they make it illegal and don't allow doctors to study it.
- Psychological addiction
Psychological addiction also applies to any other form of training for a sport. How do you plan to make that illegal?
- Can affect growth in adolescents
Yes, which is why is should require a doctors prescription.
Anabolic Steroids

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[nathaniel 0]

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Because of the following. Especially, the ones concerning vital organs:

Which of those side effects is not caused by any existing prescription drug?

Who gets to decide whether the side effects are worth it?

In terms of cost - benefit, for competitive athletes it seems both on principle and empirically that the scales are tipped heavily toward the benefit side. Our society rewards athletes for pushing limits, not for shrinking from them.

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[miked10270 0]

Cheating has occurred throughout sporting history.

For example, in the Tour-de-France, one winner was disqualified for doing part of the course by train!

Other competitors were found to be "biting cork" (attached to a car by fishing line & being pulled along).

And that's before we get to nobbling the competition with laxatives in their water & itching powder in their clothing!

The winner of The Marathon in the 1904 Olympics in America was also disqualified for... Doing part of the race in a car! The three runners up were also disqualified for taking Strychnine (in small doses, the performance-enhancing-poison of the day.

The eventual winner of this Marathon by default, a Cuban Postman, Felix Carvajal (How's THAT for Cuban history, Steel), actually had to run an extra 3 miles because he was chased by a vicious dog... Then had to stop to sleep of the effects of some rotten apples he'd stopped and picked up from an orchard earlier in the race!

Records may not have been broken, but it was still entertaining!

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[jakee 1,257]

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Cheating has occurred throughout sporting history.

And the adverse consequences of doping have bitten athletes in the arse for just as long. Take for instance the great English cyclist Tom Simpson who's recipe for success on the notoriously demanding Mont Ventoux one hot july day in 1967 was the severely dehydrating cocktail of amphetamines and brandy.

Granted most modern doping methods aren't as immediately fatal but take note those who don't think doctors and athletes will go beyond the realms of safety in the hope of a good performance.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Steel 0]

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Cheating has occurred throughout sporting history.

And the adverse consequences of doping have bitten athletes in the arse for just as long. Take for instance the great English cyclist Tom Simpson who's recipe for success on the notoriously demanding Mont Ventoux one hot july day in 1967 was the severely dehydrating cocktail of amphetamines and brandy.
-----------------------------------------------
So this is cheating? ok lets ask some questions on the matter. Is having a good diet cheating? Is training twice as long as your competitor cheating? What if you had to take vivarins to do it? Would it be cheating to stay up the night before a test on caffine pills? How about the previous week?

What about somebody who could afford to have a trainer? Does he have an unfair advantage above the rest?

To be quite clear, I don't believe performance/appearance enhancing drugs are cheating. I believe they are a personal decision that people should make with the advice of their physician. Also, I specify performance/appearance because the fact is that most people using these drugs are not competing but are doing so to be happier with there appearance. Which leads to another group of questions. Should transgendered individuals be prevented from taking hormones to feminize or masculinize their appearance. If not then why should other not be able to take male hormones. Then an arguement could be made that plastic surgery is stupid because people overdue it and then look worse, just look at Wayne Newton. So should that too be illegal? Is or was he cheating to look younger/better? Or was it just a choice he made. Remember when you start judging others choices it comes right back at you very fast. As skydivers we should know that the general population would not loose any sleep over skydiving being made illegal. Think how many skydivers have died in the past two weeks. Do you really think that others would not think they can choose better for us?
================================

Granted most modern doping methods aren't as immediately fatal but take note those who don't think doctors and athletes will go beyond the realms of safety in the hope of a good performance.

Shit can always go wrong but that is inevidable. I still think it will greatly improve the chances of sucess when professionals (not fat, smoking, alcoholic and judgemental politicians) are involved in those decisions.
,

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[brierebecca 0]

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Close. It's the "we do more damage vainly trying to stamp it out rather than by permitting and controlling it" line of thinking.

I wouldn't call

***Why the heck SHOULDN'T we legalize doping in sports? Those Tour de France cyclists are adults. If the 5'6" power lifter wants to have a hat size rivaling Andre the Giant, let him. Or her. If the female sprinter has put so much testosterone in her that she grows a penis, why not say, "Go for it!" ***

controlling it. I would call it a free-for-all. See my second statement in my post above.

Brie

"Ive seen you hump air, hump the floor of the plane, and hump legs. You now have a new nickname: "Black Humper of Death"--yardhippie