Bodies of G.I.'s Show Signs of Torture, Iraqi General Says

[Skyrad 0]

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I am sure they don't do it to their own

I figured that much. They dont give a damn about anybody if you dont bow down to there god. They sound like some really understanding people.

No offence but only approximatly 2% of fighters in Iraq are forigen most of those being from Syria from tribes who stretch across the modern British made borders whos tribal alligence takes prescedence over a largely ignored imposed border. The US and UK have invaded their country, destroyed the infrastructure killed tens of thousands of civillians been caught committing attrocities such as the massacre of civillians in cold blood, the torture and execution of prisoners in jail and in the field. have on TV desecrated Mosques and killed the wounded, opened fire on ambulances and recently shot a pregnant woman on her way to hospital. I guess to them Americans don't really sound all that understanding either, if you view things from their persective I think you'd agree they've got grounds to bitch.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[StreetScooby 5]

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No offence but only approximatly 2% of fighters in Iraq are forigen most of those being from Syria from tribes who stretch across the modern British made borders whos tribal alligence takes prescedence over a largely ignored imposed border. The US and UK have invaded their country, destroyed the infrastructure killed tens of thousands of civillians been caught committing attrocities such as the massacre of civillians in cold blood, the torture and execution of prisoners in jail and in the field. have on TV desecrated Mosques and killed the wounded, opened fire on ambulances and recently shot a pregnant woman on her way to hospital. I guess to them Americans don't really sound all that understanding either, if you view things from their persective I think you'd agree they've got grounds to bitch.

So, Skyrad, why don't you tell us about the good things we've done in Iraq? Do you know of any?

We are all engines of karma

[Botellines 0]

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No offence but only approximatly 2% of fighters in Iraq are forigen most of those being from Syria from tribes who stretch across the modern British made borders whos tribal alligence takes prescedence over a largely ignored imposed border. The US and UK have invaded their country, destroyed the infrastructure killed tens of thousands of civillians been caught committing attrocities such as the massacre of civillians in cold blood, the torture and execution of prisoners in jail and in the field. have on TV desecrated Mosques and killed the wounded, opened fire on ambulances and recently shot a pregnant woman on her way to hospital. I guess to them Americans don't really sound all that understanding either, if you view things from their persective I think you'd agree they've got grounds to bitch.

So, Skyrad, why don't you tell us about the good things we've done in Iraq? Do you know of any?

You tell us about the good things you guys have done in Irak that makes up for all the bad things you guys have done in Irak.

[shropshire 0]

Like what, for example? Rebuild stuff that we bombed? or is there some real good that out weighs the slaughter too?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[StreetScooby 5]

Check out this website:

http://www.michaelyon-online.com

He gives a pretty objective view of American forces in Iraq.

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

It'll help us better appreciate your info, Skyrad, if you'd share your sources for some of these numbers:

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killed tens of thousands of civillians

Where did you get this? I read a minimum of 3 newspapers a day (Wall Street Journal, NYTimes, NYPost), and haven't come across this.

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been caught committing attrocities such as the massacre of civillians in cold blood,

Caught by whom? Where? When? You cannot in fairness compare the entire US armed forces to a small group of individuals who are being investigating for the few episodes that have been published.

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the torture and execution of prisoners in jail and in the field.

Your equating the entire US armed forces to a small group of disgraced thugs in Abu Ghraib?

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have on TV desecrated Mosques

You mean the ones housing snipers? And explosives? And other weapons being used to kill US soilders?

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and killed the wounded,

I believe these incidents were investigated. Don't believe any were deemed unjustified, but I'm not sure.

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opened fire on ambulances and
recently shot a pregnant woman on her way to hospital.

Check points have well established rules. It sad to say, but Iraqis should know those rules by now.

We are all engines of karma

[christelsabine 1]

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/press/pr13.php

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Well if you really want an "out of the box" idea that would definately make the terrorists think twice then I think I have it. Simply killing and torturing most terrorists would most-likely have no effect on their tactics what so ever. The majority of Muslims, however, are a very family oriented culture, so if you want to hurt a terrorist begin targeting their families (mothers, brothers, mom, dads, children, ect...) This could clearly not be done openly, but even if it was done covertly then the terrorists would surely know, and may think twice. It is brutal, immoral, and sickens me to even bring it up(because their family members are most likely innocent), but would clearly be effective and I see it as the only option to disuade them, especially if you held the family members captive under the threat of death or worse. All you need is the names of the specific individuals involved in the acts, and then your ready to set out after their loved ones. Some may not even give a damn about their family members, but most would, as most arabs are extremely family oriented. Also any retaliation or threats thrown out there by these insurgents in responding to this tactic aren't going to be any worse then what they have already done or want to do to us in the future

The Russians can confirm this, ask any current or former SPETNAZ guys.

[Skyrad 0]

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No offence but only approximatly 2% of fighters in Iraq are forigen most of those being from Syria from tribes who stretch across the modern British made borders whos tribal alligence takes prescedence over a largely ignored imposed border. The US and UK have invaded their country, destroyed the infrastructure killed tens of thousands of civillians been caught committing attrocities such as the massacre of civillians in cold blood, the torture and execution of prisoners in jail and in the field. have on TV desecrated Mosques and killed the wounded, opened fire on ambulances and recently shot a pregnant woman on her way to hospital. I guess to them Americans don't really sound all that understanding either, if you view things from their persective I think you'd agree they've got grounds to bitch.

So, Skyrad, why don't you tell us about the good things we've done in Iraq? Do you know of any?

I know that both the US and British forces have done some good things in Iraq, that wasn't my point, the point being try seeing it from an Iraqi point of view. Unless you are one of those Iraqis that has personally benifitted then the chances are that you are more likely to just see the negatives.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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Well if you really want an "out of the box" idea that would definately make the terrorists think twice then I think I have it. Simply killing and torturing most terrorists would most-likely have no effect on their tactics what so ever. The majority of Muslims, however, are a very family oriented culture, so if you want to hurt a terrorist begin targeting their families (mothers, brothers, mom, dads, children, ect...) This could clearly not be done openly, but even if it was done covertly then the terrorists would surely know, and may think twice. It is brutal, immoral, and sickens me to even bring it up(because their family members are most likely innocent), but would clearly be effective and I see it as the only option to disuade them, especially if you held the family members captive under the threat of death or worse. All you need is the names of the specific individuals involved in the acts, and then your ready to set out after their loved ones. Some may not even give a damn about their family members, but most would, as most arabs are extremely family oriented. Also any retaliation or threats thrown out there by these insurgents in responding to this tactic aren't going to be any worse then what they have already done or want to do to us in the future

The Russians can confirm this, ask any current or former SPETNAZ guys.

The Russians lost...QED

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[StreetScooby 5]

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Although what has been described as ‘sectarian violence’ undoubtedly contributes to a growing proportion of deaths,

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the last year’s total includes 370 known civilian deaths from military action by US-led forces

From this document, it is NOT fair to say the US forces have killed 10s of thousands of people.

We are all engines of karma

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Well if you really want an "out of the box" idea that would definately make the terrorists think twice then I think I have it. Simply killing and torturing most terrorists would most-likely have no effect on their tactics what so ever. The majority of Muslims, however, are a very family oriented culture, so if you want to hurt a terrorist begin targeting their families (mothers, brothers, mom, dads, children, ect...) This could clearly not be done openly, but even if it was done covertly then the terrorists would surely know, and may think twice. It is brutal, immoral, and sickens me to even bring it up(because their family members are most likely innocent), but would clearly be effective and I see it as the only option to disuade them, especially if you held the family members captive under the threat of death or worse. All you need is the names of the specific individuals involved in the acts, and then your ready to set out after their loved ones. Some may not even give a damn about their family members, but most would, as most arabs are extremely family oriented. Also any retaliation or threats thrown out there by these insurgents in responding to this tactic aren't going to be any worse then what they have already done or want to do to us in the future

The Russians can confirm this, ask any current or former SPETNAZ guys.

The Russians lost...QED

Oh they lost in their own war on terror?, gee I missed that on the news.

I wonder if you realize they are in combat with their own terrorists every day.

I am sure you have heard of Beslan, and the Chechyan seperatists, who are really Alqaeda, and Muslim extremists hell bent on destroying the infidels

Chechnya is only one of many areas the Russians have problems.

[cyric77 0]

Your probably right just throwing it out there....

[kallend 1,635]

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Well at least something really horrible wasn't done to them, like making them wear panties on their heads. If the terrorists had done that, then all the cut-and-run liberals would have been really upset!

Maybe they learned cut-and-run from Eisenhower, Nixon, and, of course, G.W. Bush, who started a job in Afghanistan and then left it unfinished while he embarked on his Iraq misadventure. The poor management of our occupation of Afghanistan is now coming back to haunt us.

The United States invested several billion dollars in rebuilding the Afghani infrastructure. Once again, the pattern was the same as that in Iraq. Most of the money went to multinationals headquartered in the US and a huge percentage of the cost was for security. Roughly one-third of the total was spent on the construction of one new highway from Kabul to Kandahar, at the expense of $1 million per mile. This left precious little money for reconstruction of the devastated Afghani infrastructure: clean water, electricity, telephone service, health clinics, and schools. Of the 7000 buildings that were used as schools before the reign of the Taliban, slightly more than half were usable in 2002. The largest school construction, $665 million, went to the American company, the Louis Berger Group; their contract called for only 98 new schools at an average of $174,000 per. Now the reconstruction money is drying up.

This grim summary ignores several other facts about Afghanistan. We haven't installed a democratic government and haven't protected the rights of women. Indeed, it's hard to find good news about Afghanistan. Maybe that's why the Bush administration has decided to cut and run.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Skyrad 0]

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Well if you really want an "out of the box" idea that would definately make the terrorists think twice then I think I have it. Simply killing and torturing most terrorists would most-likely have no effect on their tactics what so ever. The majority of Muslims, however, are a very family oriented culture, so if you want to hurt a terrorist begin targeting their families (mothers, brothers, mom, dads, children, ect...) This could clearly not be done openly, but even if it was done covertly then the terrorists would surely know, and may think twice. It is brutal, immoral, and sickens me to even bring it up(because their family members are most likely innocent), but would clearly be effective and I see it as the only option to disuade them, especially if you held the family members captive under the threat of death or worse. All you need is the names of the specific individuals involved in the acts, and then your ready to set out after their loved ones. Some may not even give a damn about their family members, but most would, as most arabs are extremely family oriented. Also any retaliation or threats thrown out there by these insurgents in responding to this tactic aren't going to be any worse then what they have already done or want to do to us in the future

The Russians can confirm this, ask any current or former SPETNAZ guys.

The Russians lost...QED

Oh they lost in their own war on terror?, gee I missed that on the news.

I wonder if you realize they are in combat with their own terrorists every day.

I am sure you have heard of Beslan, and the Chechyan seperatists, who are really Alqaeda, and Muslim extremists hell bent on destroying the infidels

Chechnya is only one of many areas the Russians have problems.

Russia jumped on the Al Q band wagon to justify mass murder in Chechnya.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[warpedskydiver 0]

Chechnya is only one of many areas the Russians have problems.

[Skyrad 0]

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Chechnya is only one of many areas the Russians have problems.

Russia jumped on the Al Q band wagon to justify mass murder in Chechnya.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Chechnya is only one of many areas the Russians have problems.

Russia jumped on the Al Q band wagon to justify mass murder in Chechnya.

And Jesus pissed off the Rabbi's in the temple, so what is your point?

Oh that is right your point is that people should not prevent attacks, or retaliate for terrorist attacks?

I am supposing that you would believe is all the Chechnyans want is independance.

And all AQ wants is the US and the west out of all muslim lands around the world and no further interference, and to convert US to Islam?

Hey I know! why don't you convert, and then travel to Iraq, and tell us how well they receive you.

[Skyrad 0]

Having been brought up in a Muslim family, as a former British soldier and as someone who spent time in the so called Al Q heartland of the North West Frontier province and Afghanistan during the 80's during the Soviet war I'd say I had a pretty damn good idea of what I'm talking about.

So what did you learn from Fox news today?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[StreetScooby 5]

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Having been brought up in a Muslim family, as a former British soldier and as someone who spent time in the so called Al Q heartland of the North West Frontier province and Afghanistan during the 80's during the Soviet war I'd say I had a pretty damn good idea of what I'm talking about.

Thanks for sharing that, Skyrad. I would imagine that few people knew that about you. You do have a tendency to throw out "strong facts" without proper reference. Maybe you could teach a little more in your posts, instead of trying to inflame.

We are all engines of karma

[Skyrad 0]

Will try

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[StreetScooby 5]

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Will try Wink

Thanks! We'll all be better for it.

We are all engines of karma

[Royd 0]

the last year’s total includes 370 known civilian deaths from military action by US-led forces

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From this document, it is NOT fair to say the US forces have killed 10s of thousands of people.

Some people just love to throw around big numbers because they beleive that it makes them sound like an authority.

[kallend 1,635]

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the last year’s total includes 370 known civilian deaths from military action by US-led forces

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From this document, it is NOT fair to say the US forces have killed 10s of thousands of people.

Some people just love to throw around big numbers because they beleive that it makes them sound like an authority.

$292,000,000,000 is a big number. Do you know what it is?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Thanks might be a nice idea, and yes I can only go on what I have read, and that doesn't mean Fox.