Military recruits an austic 18yr old...

[rehmwa 2]

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Second, I spent the better part of the last 3 years as a recruiter

You you BASTARD!!!

Is it true? are you all the same?

If the kid can do the job, then he should be allowed.
If he can't, the army will find out (physical, basic, field experience, etc) and put him out.

Good luck to him if this is what he wants.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[idrankwhat 0]

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If the kid can do the job, then he should be allowed.
If he can't, the army will find out (physical, basic, field experience, etc) and put him out.

Good luck to him if this is what he wants.

This thread reminds me, I haven't seen Full Metal Jacket in a while. Talk about a world of sheeeeeeeiiit!

[rehmwa 2]

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This thread reminds me, I haven't seen Full Metal Jacket in a while. Talk about a world of sheeeeeeeiiit!

What did he name his gun?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[stoneycase 0]

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Having read the article, and having commanded an Army Recruiting Company, I feel I can comment with some authority...

First, you need to LTFU, or Lighten The Fuck Up... not everyone who sees things differently than you is stupid as you seem to insinuate with most of your posts.

how about this...no. i indicated, more than once in this thread, that the topic pisses me off. i'm sure it doesn't piss you off at all, you're obviously on the other side of the fence. that's fine. here's my advice to you (along the same lines as your advice to me): STFU.

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Second, while this is an unfortunate situation, there is a system for dealing with it, and it appears the system is working...

you'll have to excuse me if i don't put a whole lot of stock in an organizational process to 'catch the problem' when the same organizations process to 'prevent the problem' in the first place failed miserably because of the unethical actions of the individuals involved.

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Jared will not ship out in August, the recruiter, and probably the recruiter’s station commander have been suspended pending the investigation, and presuming the investigation finds the allegations to be true, they will both be relieved and disciplined under the UCMJ. The system could have just as easily been put in to motion by calling the Company Commander, Battalion Commander, or MEPS commander.

so, explain to me then, why this happened:
After learning Jared had cleared this first hurdle toward enlistment, Brenda said she called and asked for Ansley's supervisor and got Sgt. Alejandro Velasco.

She said she begged Velasco to review Jared's medical and school records. Brenda said Velasco declined, asserting that he didn't need any paperwork. Under military rules, recruiters are required to gather all available information about a recruit and fill out a medical screening form.

"He was real cocky and he says, `Well, Jared's an 18-year-old man. He doesn't need his mommy to make his decisions for him."'

mom is trying to roll the problem up and meets nothing but resistance from the recruiter, then the recruiter's 'supervisor'. knowing no other alternatives, it looks like she went right to the media. the media went at it and viola, we have an investigation. not quite as simple as you make it out to be, is it? especially when the people that should be helping you, are doing everything to stop you.

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Having done more than a handful of Recruiting Impropriety (RI) investigations, I can tell you that they are not taken lightly by the chain of command. Some RI's turn out to be real infractions by the recruiter, some RI's are just a kid who didn't listen or changed their mind and are just trying to back out, but all of them are investigated.

as i'm sure this one will be, now that the local media is all over it, and it's been picked up around the country. wonder what the result would have been if mom had never called the newspaper to ask for help...

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The article has plenty of inaccuracies and sensationalism too... schools have been compelled to provide phone numbers long before "no child left behind"... you can be arrested for failing to ship out. It’s hard to tell the entire timeline, but does not appear that this took very long to get looked at... it’s not like he was not he steps of the bus to basic...

no, he wasn't steps away from the bus when the investigation started. but that certainly wasn't due to the actions of the military or the recruiters. that is due entirely to the actions of mom and the media. period. had they waited for your 'process' to start the kid *would have been* steps from the bus. see the difference there? one path stops it NOW. the other path lets it run until enough of the pieces have stacked up in the right places that the process stops. which one do you think mom and dad are going to go for? path a or path b? now consider mom and dad's experience with the recruitment process itself, how confident do you think they will be in *any* other process from the military?

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Now a question for you... if you were a scholarship cadet in ROTC, why aren't you in?

ooo, the dreaded "he must be a commie" question. lol. again, you'll have to bear with the energy surrounding this subject. it really pisses me off.

my story is actually rather simple: after 2 years in Army ROTC on a full scholarship i left of my own volition. i told the Army and ROTC to stick it, and send me the bill. they did, and i'm paying about $35k back in mo payments with interest. i finished school on time, worked an entry level position for an IT firm and now i work for a DoD contractor. i'll be pursuing my masters in about 12mo. had i not decided to leave Army ROTC i'd be stuck in a shit-hole sandbox a couple thousand miles away. it put a huge rift between myself and my father (as i said, he was career) but there's not much i can do about that. in many ways i can't stand the way the military operates. even after only seeing a little sliver of it, i decided that it would be ridiculous to commit years of my life to organization like that given the alternatives that exist in this world. if i want to support my country i'll do it another way (like work for this contractor), not all of us need a rifle to contribute. some of us can do it with our minds - kinda interesting how it works that way, isn't it?

/to everyone else who responded, sorry i won't be able to provide you with individual responses like this one. something about mr. army recruiter telling me to LTFU rubbed me the wrong way.

Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

[Brian3576 0]

something about mr. army recruiter telling me to LTFU rubbed me the wrong way.


dude !!!

when are you going to LTFU ?

[downwardspiral 0]

LOL obviously I didn't need to read the fucking article (as you so eloquently put it) did I?

I have to say I do admire your passion even if it is completely misguided and uninformed. Oh yeah, I read the article. Some advice to you.... don't put so much stock in what journalists like to try to pass off as "news" when it is so obviously self serving and designed to sell newspapers. More advice.... in the future you should make an attempt to curb your beligerence when debating. Your credibility suffers for it.

One question about the article. Why is it you think Jared's parents decided to goto the media rather than continue up the chain of command? Certainly the Sgt. has a superior, right?

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[jdhill 0]

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how about this...no. i indicated, more than once in this thread, that the topic pisses me off. i'm sure it doesn't piss you off at all, you're obviously on the other side of the fence. that's fine. here's my advice to you (along the same lines as your advice to me): STFU.

Hey dude, you posted the topic here obviously to be discussed... don't be surprised, especially in the speaker's corner, when someone disagrees with you, and certainly don't let it get your blood pressure up, you live longer... As for whether this topic pisses me off, I'm not going to get my blood pressure up over something like this, where there is a process for dealing with it, and that process appeared to work.

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you'll have to excuse me if i don't put a whole lot of stock in an organizational process to 'catch the problem' when the same organizations process to 'prevent the problem' in the first place failed miserably because of the unethical actions of the individuals involved.

The system isn't perfect, none is. The kid must be fairly functional if he did not give any indication to the MEPS personnel, the doctor (who's specific job is to disqualify candidates), or the guidance councilor. He passed the test, granted not an "A", but 50% of the population is not an "A".

You will run in to unethical people in every line of work, the military is no different, that doesn't excuse it, its just fact... and the fact is, these two soldier's careers are over (assuming the results of the investigation).

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so, explain to me then, why this happened: mom is trying to roll the problem up and meets nothing but resistance from the recruiter, then the recruiter's 'supervisor'. knowing no other alternatives, it looks like she went right to the media. the media went at it and viola, we have an investigation. not quite as simple as you make it out to be, is it? especially when the people that should be helping you, are doing everything to stop you.

The simple answer is she did not get to a high enough level in the chain of command. Have you ever gotten resistance from a customer support person? Did you talk to their supervisor, and not get a satisfactory answer from them? Did you go to the next supervisor? Everyone in the military has a boss, especially Sergeants... Having said that, there is nothing wrong with the way she got someone's attention either, but the result will not be any different than if she had talked to the Company Commander / 1SG or BN Commander. Should the Station Commander done the right thing? Yes, but because he didn't his career is over too.

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no, he wasn't steps away from the bus when the investigation started. but that certainly wasn't due to the actions of the military or the recruiters. that is due entirely to the actions of mom and the media. period. had they waited for your 'process' to start the kid *would have been* steps from the bus. see the difference there? one path stops it NOW. the other path lets it run until enough of the pieces have stacked up in the right places that the process stops. which one do you think mom and dad are going to go for? path a or path b? now consider mom and dad's experience with the recruitment process itself, how confident do you think they will be in *any* other process from the military?

I can understand that they would not have confidence in the system to catch this, but I think in reality it would have... Again, what the recruiter did was wrong, and what the Station Commander did was wrong. They will get what is coming to them. The parents should not have had such a hard time getting someone's attention, but I'm not going to get my heart rate up, or tell people to STFU for disagreeing with the way I see it over the issue...

RI investigations get started in many ways... someone calls the CO, someone calls the news, someone calls their Congressman, etc, etc, etc. Just because this one hit the news doesn't mean it will or should get any different treatment than any other.

As for my question about why you weren't in, it was just an honest question... I though maybe there was some insight into a MEPS physical... never suggested you were a "commie"... but your rational for quitting is insightful.

And again, LTFU, you'll live longer.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[Skyrad 0]

No doubt they'll make him an officer, he sounds perfect.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[txhoss 0]

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my story is actually rather simple: after 2 years in Army ROTC on a full scholarship i left of my own volition. i told the Army and ROTC to stick it, and send me the bill. they did, and i'm paying about $35k back in mo payments with interest.

That is strange, as I understood (and confirmed on the net) you have to start your third year in any ROTC program to have any military obligation or owe any money back to them.

What happened if you do not mind me asking?

Have Rig will travel ...

[Nightingale 0]

If you just join ROTC, you don't have any obligation til year 3. If you join ROTC and take a scholarship, your obligation starts earlier.

[jdhill 0]

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That is strange, as I understood (and confirmed on the net) you have to start your third year in any ROTC program to have any military obligation or owe any money back to them.

Not if you are on scholarship, you can be under contract in your first year... as soon as you accept money, you incur an obligation.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[Guest]

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my story is actually rather simple: after 2 years in Army ROTC on a full scholarship i left of my own volition. i told the Army and ROTC to stick it, and send me the bill. they did, and i'm paying about $35k back in mo payments with interest. i finished school on time, worked an entry level position for an IT firm and now i work for a DoD contractor. i'll be pursuing my masters in about 12mo. had i not decided to leave Army ROTC i'd be stuck in a shit-hole sandbox a couple thousand miles away. it put a huge rift between myself and my father (as i said, he was career) but there's not much i can do about that. in many ways i can't stand the way the military operates. even after only seeing a little sliver of it, i decided that it would be ridiculous to commit years of my life to organization like that given the alternatives that exist in this world. if i want to support my country i'll do it another way (like work for this contractor), not all of us need a rifle to contribute. some of us can do it with our minds - kinda interesting how it works that way, isn't it?

No worries. You decided it wasn't for you, and you're paying back the dough.

"God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more, methinks, would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made
And crowns for convoy put into his purse...."

--Henry V, Act 4, Scene 3

Or in your case, taken away.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[idrankwhat 0]

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This thread reminds me, I haven't seen Full Metal Jacket in a while. Talk about a world of sheeeeeeeiiit!

What did he name his gun?

I had to look it up. I thought it was Darlene but it's Charlene.

[Andy9o8 0]

News as of today: the Army released him from his enlistment contract, and is "conducting an investigation" into how this managed to happen.

According to the report I watched this morning, this sort of thing happens more often (albeit not publicly) than we might think, due to decreased interest in enlistments and correspondingly increasing pressure on recruiters to make their quotas