US Gov't & the definition of Fascism

[AdD 1]

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

14 Points of fascism

In his original article, "Fascism Anyone?", Laurence Britt (interview) compared the regimes of Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Suharto, and Pinochet and identified 14 characteristics common to those fascist regimes. This page is a collection of news articles dating from the start of the Bush presidency divided into topics relating to each of the 14 points of fascism. Further analysis of American Fascism done by the POAC can be read here.
1.) Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
and let's not forget the failed "Bring 'em on!"
New Majority Leader: Iraq War “May Be The Greatest Gift That We Give” Our Grandchildren

Headstones of soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan are inscribed with the Pentagons war-marketing slogans

White House and the RNC are going to make a habit of using uniformed military personnel as props at Republican political rallies, despite the fact that it is a plain violation of military regulations banning politicization of the armed forces.

September 11 Freedom Walk

"You must glorify war in order to get the public to accept the fact that your going to send their sons and daughters to die." The inside story of the cozy relationship between big box office American war movies and the Pentagon 3-8

More...

2.) Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights: Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
Bush threatens to veto $442b defense bill if Congress investigates detainee abuses.
Guantanamo Judge: “I don’t care about international law. I don’t want to hear the words ‘international law’ again. We are not concerned with international law.”
Rumsfeld to approve new guidelines that will formalize the administration's policy of imprisoning without the protections of the Geneva Conventions and enable the Pentagon to legally hold "ghost detainees,"
US 'preparing to detain terror suspects for life without trial'
U.S. oks evidence gained through torture
July 1, 2003: U.S. Suspends Military Aid to Nearly 50 Countries: because they have supported the International Criminal Court and failed to exempt Americans from possible prosecution.
US has at least 9000 prisoners in secret detention
More...

3.) Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

Congressman: Muslims 'enemy amongst us'
SB 24, Ohio law to muzzle "liberals"
World history textbook used by seventh-graders at Scottsdale’s Mohave Middle School was pulled from classrooms mid-semester amid growing right criticism of the book’s unbiased portrayal of Islam
Rallies planned against 'Islamofacism': Event to 'unify all Americans behind common goal'
More...

4.) Supremacy of the Military: Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

If you haven't seen the Oreo flash animation yet, see it here

Bush’s Domestic Program Hit List

Bush slashes domestic programs, boosts defense. Arlen Spector calls it "scandalous"


Funding for job training, rural health care, low-income schools and help for people lacking health insurance would face big cuts under a bill passed Friday by the House

Pentagon to spend 75 billion for three new brigades
Three cable channels now feed news, information and entertainment about the armed services into millions of living rooms 24 hours a day, seven days a week: The Military Channel, the Military History Channel and the Pentagon Channel.
More...

5.) Rampant Sexism: The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
It's legal again, to fire gov't workers for being gay
Bush calls for Constitutional ban on same-sex marriages
Bush refuses to sign U.N proposal on women's "sexual" rights
W. David Hager chairman of the FDA's Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee does not prescribe contraceptives for single women, does not do abortions, will not prescribe RU-486 and will not insert IUDs.
The State Department has awarded an explicitly anti-feminist U.S. group part of a US$10 million grant to train Iraqi women in political participation and democracy.
More...

6.) Controlled Mass Media: Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
Smoking Gun Memo? Iraq Bombshell Goes Mostly Unreported in US Media
Report shows U.S. government has been engaged in illegal propaganda aimed at its own citizens and the story gets only 41 mentions in the media
Free Press details recent governmental propaganda efforts, from faux-correspondent Jeff Gannon to paid-off pundit Armstrong Williams, and from the demise of FOIA to video news releases passed off as news. also... See a Whitehouse fake news release here (opens realplayer)
US seizes webservers from independent media sites
Bush's war on information: US editors forbidden to publish certain foreign writers
More...

7.) Obsession with National Security: Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses
Bush Aides ADMIT 'stoking fear' for political gain: Bush adviser said the president hopes to change the dynamics of the race. The strategy is aimed at stoking public fears about terrorism, raising new concerns about Kerry's ability to protect Americans and reinforcing Bush's image as the steady anti-terrorism candidate, aides said.
The Bush administration periodically put the USA on high alert for terrorist attacks even though then-Homeland Security chief Tom Ridge argued there was only flimsy evidence to justify raising the threat level.
Keith Olbermann: "The Nexus of Politics and Terror."
Cheney warns that if Kerry is elected, the USA will suffer a "devastating attack"
GOP convention in a nutshell (quicktime)
Rove: GOP to Use Terror As Campaign Issue in 2006
More...

8.) Religion and Government are Intertwined: Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
Jerry Falwell cleared of charges that he broke federal election law by urging followers to vote for Bush
NC congressman proposes law making it ok to preach politics from the pulpit
Texas Governor Mobilizes Evangelicals
Family research council: Justice Sunday
Thou shalt be like Bush: What makes this recently established, right-wing Christian college unique are the increasingly close - critics say alarmingly close - links it has with the Bush administration and the Republican establishment.
Park Service Continues to Push Creationist Theory at Grand Canyon and other nat'l parks
More...

9.) Corporate Power is Protected: The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
The K Street Project is a project by the Republican party to pressure Washington lobbying firms to hire Republicans in top positions, and to reward loyal GOP lobbyists with access to influential officials. It was launched in 1995, by Republican strategist Grover Norquist and House majority leader Tom DeLay.
American Conservative Magazine: One U.S. contractor received $2 million in a duffel bag... and a U.S. official was given $7 million in cash in the waning days of the CPA and told to spend it “before the Iraqis take over.”
There are 6 Congressional Committees investigating the Oil-for-Food (UN) scandal, yet not a single Republican Committee Chairman will call a hearing to investigate the whereabouts of 9 billion dollars missing in Iraq
Bush money network rooted in Florida, Texas: Since Mr. Bush took office in 2001, the federal government has awarded more than $3 billion in contracts to the President's elite 2004 Texas fund-raisers, their businesses, and lobbying clients
More...

10.) Labor Power is Suppressed: Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
Labor Department warns unions against using their money politically
President Bush Attacks Organized Labor: Bush attacked organized labor Saturday, issuing orders effectively reducing how much money unions can spend for political activities and opening up government contracts to non-union bidding.
March 2001: President Bush signed his name to four executive orders on organized labor last month, including one that cuts the money unions will have for political campaign spending.
Congress and the Department of Labor are trying to change the rules on overtime pay, eliminating the 40 hour work week, taking eligibility for overtime pay away from millions of workers, and replacing time and a half pay with comp days.
More...

11.) Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts: Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.
Bush's new economic plan cuts funding for arts, education
Artists from all over the world are being refused entry to the US on security grounds.
A group of more than 60 top U.S. scientists, including 20 Nobel laureates and several science advisers to past Republican presidents, on Wednesday accused the Bush administration of manipulating and censoring science for political purposes
Freedom of Repression: New ruling will allow censorship of campus publications
More...

12.) Obsession with Crime and Punishment: Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations
American Gestapo is here: "There is hereby created and established a permanent police force, to be known as the 'United States Secret Service Uniformed Division.'"
America: secret jails, secret courts, secret arrests, and now secret laws
Snitch-or-Go-to-Jail bill will make pretty much anything short of reporting on everyone you see for doing just about anything a jailable offense. With minimum sentences, up to and including life without parole.
The problem with Gonzales is that he has been deeply involved in developing some of the most sweeping claims of near-dictatorial presidential power in our nation's history, allowing him to imprison and even (at least in theory) torture anyone in the world, at any time
Police officers don't have to give a reason at the time they arrest someone, the U.S. Supreme Court said in a ruling that shields officers from false-arrest lawsuits.
More...

13.) Rampant Cronyism and Corruption: Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
Bush Cronyism: Foxes Guarding the henhouse
Making Sense of the Abramoff Scandal
If Bush's pick is confirmed, that will mean the five top appointees at Justice have zero prosecutorial experience among them.
Iran-Contra Felons Get Good Jobs from Bush
Big Iraq Reconstruction Contracts Went To Big Donors
Bush Wars -- Crooks Get Contracts : The main companies that were awarded billions of dollars worth of contracts in Iraq have paid more than $300 million in fines since 2000, to resolve allegations of fraud, bid rigging, delivery of faulty military equipment, and environmental damage.
US Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) lost track of $9 billion
"Contracting in the aftermath of the hurricanes has been marked by waste, corruption and cronyism"
More...

14. Fraudulent Elections: Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
Powerful Government Accounting Office report confirms key 2004 stolen election findings
Conyers hearing in which Clinton Curtis testifies that he was hired to create hackable voting machines (.wmv)
The Republican Party has quietly paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to provide private defense lawyers for a former Bush campaign official charged with conspiring to keep Democrats from voting in New Hampshire.
The Conyers Report (.pdf)
No explanation for the machines in Mahoning County that recorded Kerry votes for Bush, the improper purging in Cuyahoga County, the lock down in Warren County, the 99% voter turnout in Miami County, the machine tampering in Hocking County
Less access than Kazakhstan. Fewer fail-safes than Venezuela. Not as simple Republic of Georgia. The 2004 Elections according to international observers.
This picture is what stopped the ballot recounts in Florida shortly after it seemed that legitimate President Gore had a lead. The "citizens" started what was later called "the preppy riot". Screaming, yelling, pounding on the walls, these "outraged citizens" intimidated the polling officials to halt the court mandated recount. A closer look reveals who they really were. They were bussed and flown in at Republican lawmakers expense. Some even flew in on Tom Delay's private plane

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

[lawrocket 3]

Those sound like the Kennedy Administration.

1.) Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: "Ich bin un Berleiner" How about the Space Program and the PR bonanza for that?

2.) Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights:: "Hello, Vietnam."

3.) Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: Like the Soviets in the Bay of Pigs, Cuban Missile Crisis, etc.? Boy, the Cold War was never hotter than in Kennedy's regime.

4.) Supremacy of the Military: Like the Bay of Pigs, the Cuban Missile Crisis Blockade, Vietnam incursion, etc.? A primary tool of his campaign was a "missile gap" - that the US did not match Soviet spending and our military was weakened.

5.) Rampant Sexism: Exhibit "A" - Marilyn Monroe

6.) Controlled Mass Media: Yep, even then.

7.) Obsession with National Security: Like the Bay of Pigs, the Cuban Missile Crisis, etc.?

8.) Religion and Government are Intertwined: He was the first Catholic President, which was a BIG deal. Guess why? Intertwinement.

9.) Corporate Power is Protected: The Military Industrial Complex that Ike spoke about? Look at the space program for evidence of that. It wasn't mom and pop who got the dough for the space program.

10.) Labor Power is Suppressed: He waited to do this until after they helped him get elected. It's why the mob is suspected in so many conspiracy theories of having him killed. He used the unions, then tried to break them up a bit.

11.) Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts: I've got no evidence on this one, other than the fact that there WAS no National Endowment for the Arts until Johnson came along. And, now that I think about it, I understand the Nazis were great fans of art, having stolen just about everything in Europe for their personal collections.

12.) Obsession with Crime and Punishment: It's why he had Bobby as his AG, and his efforts to root out the mob. He was actually pretty strong on this.

13.) Rampant Cronyism and Corruption: See "Bobby Kennedy." See mob ties prior to election.

14.) Fraudulent Elections: DING DING! WE HAVE A WINNER! Nixon would have won the election but for soome shady things happening in Illinois and in Texas. Kennedy

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[quade 3]

Law, I can't believe you even took the time to respond to that . . .

Look I'm -clearly- no fan of this Administration, but they aren't Fascists. If anything, they're just greedy and dumb.

They -may- be unwittingly setting up the U.S. to be fascist in the future, but they haven't -quite- hit that mark yet.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,426]

Yeah! I heard the current administration is JLH! (Just Like Hitler) And Bush spelled backwards is Evil. (Well, it's close, if it's foggy out and the paper gets wet.)

[shropshire 0]

I think that you're right..

Could a modern country (US/Europen) become facist?

Well, it's always possible.. you need a catalyst.. (Jews to 1930s Germany, for example)..... Could the anti Terrorist (Read Muslim.... be careful!!) rhetoric be enough... I hope not... I would hope that we're all a lot more 'educated'/ have access to world wide media instantly to fall for that one....... I hope.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[lawrocket 3]

I know, Paul. But, I have this uncontrollable urge to point out invective.

I'm also a harsh critic of this administration. I wish people would stick to facts and reasonable opinions. I don't need people telling me that he is a fascist to get me to hate him. I've got enough disregard for him already, and credibility is lost this way,

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[LargeBoy 0]

Quote

I think that you're right..

Could a modern country (US/Europen) become facist?

Well, it's always possible.. you need a catalyst.. (Jews to 1930s Germany, for example)..... Could the anti Terrorist (Read Muslim.... be careful!!) rhetoric be enough... I hope not... I would hope that we're all a lot more 'educated'/ have access to world wide media instantly to fall for that one....... I hope.

i think it depands just how much your modern day country gets blown to bits by suicide bombers and then gets it plastered across the media

if it happens enough, then the moderats will become facist thinking to try and stop the far right wing terrorist nut-jobs

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Well, it's always possible.. you need a catalyst.. (Jews to 1930s Germany, for example)..... Could the anti Terrorist (Read Muslim.... be careful!!) rhetoric be enough... I hope not... I would hope that we're all a lot more 'educated'/ have access to world wide media instantly to fall for that one....... I hope.

I don't think the Jews were the catalyst there. The terms of peace from WWI and the subsequent depression in Germany, otoh. Moreover, with the first war ending more or less in a draw, it's not like it settled nationalistic zeal once and for all. The total warfare introduced in the second conflict was much more effective.

As for now - a major attack on London, New York, where hundreds of thousands (or millions) die, could spurn a violent realignment of the government, esp if the other side wasn'y a tangible entity that could be atonomized out of existence.

But the analsys of these 14 talking points of fascism was a joke, with no sense of degree. How paranoid can the US really be about security when we have millions of undocumented illegals? And until the Black Muslim Bakery in Berkeley is closed down, not gonna take the comparison to the 30s on rights very seriously.

[kallend 1,644]

Quote

Quote

Well, it's always possible.. you need a catalyst.. (Jews to 1930s Germany, for example)..... Could the anti Terrorist (Read Muslim.... be careful!!) rhetoric be enough... I hope not... I would hope that we're all a lot more 'educated'/ have access to world wide media instantly to fall for that one....... I hope.

I don't think the Jews were the catalyst there. The terms of peace from WWI and the subsequent depression in Germany, otoh. Moreover, with the first war ending more or less in a draw, it's not like it settled nationalistic zeal once and for all. The total warfare introduced in the second conflict was much more effective.

.

Draw? I seem to remember the Allied powers imposing harsh terms on the Central powers, and not the other way around. It was Germany that was disarmed, the Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian Empires that were broken up, and the Kaiser who became unemployed.

There was total warfare in WWI, they just hadn't figured out how to do it as well as they would in WWII.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ViperPilot 0]

wow...that's all I can say to that. When you really just want something to be true bad enough, you'll do anything, right?

[AdD 1]

Actually I'd prefer if it wasn't true. These aren't my words, they are the criticisms of your fellow US citizens. It isn't really my problem. I'm just pointing out that if the shoe fits... Are you saying that the gov't doesn't display these 14 common characteristics? I don't really understand what you're getting at here.

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

I'm just pointing out that if the shoe fits

I just showed that the shoe fit with Kennedy's Administration. Was he a fascist?

Furthermore, you will note that all 14 of the factors are qualitative. Because of that, I can actually REFUTE that the Nazis were not fascist, having not met all of the points. Here's how:

1.) Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: I'll give that to the Nazis, but more based on race.

2.) Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights:: I'll agree here, too.

3.) Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: Nazis had plenty

4.) Supremacy of the Military: Nazis tried that, and thought they were better than they were.

5.) Rampant Sexism: Well, not particulalry.

6.) Controlled Mass Media: Yes..

7.) Obsession with National Security: This one they didn't have. They were more set on conquering.

8.) Religion and Government are Intertwined: This one seems pretty far fetched.

9.) Corporate Power is Protected: Actually, it was destroyed because they forwarded the idea that the Jews controlled it all.

10.) Labor Power is Suppressed: Wrong. They were used to help destroy the corporations into Nationalistic ways.

11.) Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts: The Nazis were great fans of art, having stolen just about everything in Europe for their personal collections. And don't forget their lust for science and technology.

12.) Obsession with Crime and Punishment: The criminals were only those that opposed the Reich or of the wrong race or creed.

13.) Rampant Cronyism and Corruption: I don't think this fits.

14.) Fraudulent Elections: I don't recall this being a problem, either.

So, by my count, Nazi Germany met 5 or 6 of those factors, meaning that more than half were missing. And since they were fascist, it seems this list is a bit slanted.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kelpdiver 2]

the corruption at the lower ranks was a factor in the summer over Britain, and the war in general. Hitler got a lot of positive reports that had little to do with reality.

The use of the Hitler Youth to monitor and report on bad Germans was one aspect of their security methods.

my conclusion - you can take those 14 points and find something in almost anywhere, or not to, depending on the mindset going in.

[AdD 1]

From the original article by L. Britt:
"For the purpose of this perspective, I will consider the following regimes: Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Franco’s Spain, Salazar’s Portugal, Papadopoulos’s Greece, Pinochet’s Chile, and Suharto’s Indonesia. To be sure, they constitute a mixed bag of national identities, cultures, developmental levels, and history. But they all followed the fascist or protofascist model in obtaining, expanding, and maintaining power. Further, all these regimes have been overthrown, so a more or less complete picture of their basic characteristics and abuses is possible.

Analysis of these seven regimes reveals fourteen common threads that link them in recognizable patterns of national behavior and abuse of power. These basic characteristics are more prevalent and intense in some regimes than in others, but they all share at least some level of similarity."

I think the Nazis did display all these characteristics. You're dismissing them a little too quickly. To say that the Nazis didn't have supremacy of the military or an obsession with national security is historically incorrect. The Nazis used propaganda extensively to make it seem like their regime was under threat and had to use pre-emptive strikes to defend itself, Poland as a case in point. As for the rest of the points you question I only agree with #14, fraudelent elections. One could argue that killing, intimidating and incarcerating your opponents does not constitute election fraud because they never get to run for office, but that seems to be missing the point. Hitler was elected fairly in the beginning, but it just goes to show that democracy sucks too sometimes.

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

[miked10270 0]

Quote

I think that you're right..

Could a modern country (US/Europen) become facist?

Yes. Absolutely. But it'll take A LOT more than the odd bombing to achieve it.

It takes a desperate people to accept a desperate solution. You'd really need a major recession or economic collapse, hyperinflation & a massive fall in living standards to the point where folk are starving for a population to wilfully abandon a moderate government / political party for an extremist one.

A "comfortable" population will invariably choose a moderate (or non-interventionist) government - it takes desperation for them to support a government which proposes extreme solutions.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.