Australia - Cronulla - out of control!

[Silverlining 0]

What does everyone think about what/was happening here in Australia. We heard on the news that one guy was bashed whilst he put out his garbage bin!

The whole thing apparently started when a couple of surf life savers (people who pull you out of the ocean if you get into trouble - community service types not paid like american ones) were bashed by a group of people of lebanese decent. Groups of people (of lebanese decent) were apparently getting around in gangs in the area and threatening and intimidating people. A rally was then organised as the people of cronulla felt that their beach was getting taking over by people who didn't respect the ozzie way of life.

Some Australians believe it has got out of hand because we have welcomed people from other countries and cultures into Australia with open arms and they don't have any repect for the rights and responsibilites that come from living here.

Just throwing this one out there to get some other opinions and see what other people around the world think of this one. Have you guys even heard about it???

[CornishChris 5]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1971193;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

I think it is pretty outrageous but goes to show these things still happen all over the 'civilised' world. Be it Australia, France etc...

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[juanesky 0]

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What does everyone think about what/was happening here in Australia. We heard on the news that one guy was bashed whilst he put out his garbage bin!

The whole thing apparently started when a couple of surf life savers (people who pull you out of the ocean if you get into trouble - community service types not paid like american ones) were bashed by a group of people of lebanese decent. Groups of people (of lebanese decent) were apparently getting around in gangs in the area and threatening and intimidating people. A rally was then organised as the people of cronulla felt that their beach was getting taking over by people who didn't respect the ozzie way of life.

Some Australians believe it has got out of hand because we have welcomed people from other countries and cultures into Australia with open arms and they don't have any repect for the rights and responsibilites that come from living here.

Just throwing this one out there to get some other opinions and see what other people around the world think of this one. Have you guys even heard about it???

As Cornischris put it, it has been discussed previously. Now, with all the countries you can compare your life guards to, is there a reason why you have to single out the US for that one?

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[AlexCrowley 0]

Baywatch would be my guess.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[kirrz 0]

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Some Australians believe it has got out of hand because we have welcomed people from other countries and cultures into Australia with open arms and they don't have any repect for the rights and responsibilites that come from living here.

Hahahahaha. With open arms. Up until 20 years ago the white australia policy still existed. Then, because the population is not growing rapidly enough and there are not enough people to do the dirty jobs, they had to expand their immigration policy.

I think the media is the best reflection of the inherent sentiment of the country. Do you think white people don't bash other white people up? Do you think the Australian youth are so good that they don't get into fights? So why did this one incident get so much media coverage? Because the media picked up that the attackers were of a different race and jumped on that detail.

Australia claims to be such a multicultual country. Why should it matter what backgroud the attackers were from when writing an objective news story? They are now Australian. Therefore shouldn't the story be simply about Australian youth attacking another Australian youth rather than emphasizing their racial background? I think the media has turned this one incident into a massive 'us' vs 'them' fight when it shouldn't have been. Maybe the motives of the attackers were racist - but the media is meant to report the facts, not speculation presented as the facts.
The only way the media could know what their motives truly were would be if the attackers had overtly stated them or else they were proven in court- neither has happened. The fact that they jumped to this assumption and presented it as fact is just a reflection of the so-called "welcoming people from other countries with open arms" that you talk about.

When the mentality of the people is so unwelcoming in a new place, it is hard to even know what the lifestyle of the country is let alone:

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have any repect for the rights and responsibilites that come from living here.

There are so many immigrants in so called multicultural Australia. Look at TV - neighbours, home & away - everyone is white. The cricket team - everyone is bleached blond. The travel brochures - everyone is white. I am not saying every single person is the same but I think you are a bit deluded if you think Australia really 'welcomes people from different cultures with open arms'.

I have been living there for 5 years- both in Perth & Sydney, could easily pass for middle-eastern or lebanese (though i'm not). Some of my best friends are Australian & I would not trade the years I have spent there for anything in the world. However, I think don't think this whole drama we're seeing now can simply be blamed on the guys of 'middle eastern descent'. Those that believe it are in denial.

[Silverlining 0]

Baywatch did it - yes you were correct.
Yes I agree that the media can basically tell any story that they want from any side they wish too.
I seriously don't know what the answer is, but obviously what has been done is not the answer.
Am going back to read the old thread - seems this has already been discussed - adios.

[TVPB 0]

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Some Australians believe it has got out of hand because we have welcomed people from other countries and cultures into Australia with open arms and they don't have any repect for the rights and responsibilites that come from living here.

Point One - unless you are 100% aboriginal, either you or your ancestors have been "welcomed from other countries and cultures into Australia with open arms". So what gives you the right to demand / determine who comes after? Since you are exercising your personal beliefs (no matter how discriminatory), why does the newcomer not have similar rights to enter the country with their own beliefs?

These are the same people whose forefathers came out to this country in the first place and shot and enslaved aboriginals who were hanging out at places close to Cronulla beach.

These so called "Australians" are the same people who supported the war in Iraq, believed in the boat overboard affair, have been suckered and scared into believing that the world is out to get them, think that all people should not protest in this country and should leave their problems back at home, think Australia did a wonderful job freeing the East Timorese, have their heads firmly planted up their backsides, and have zero empathy for the issues facing other people around the world, etc . . . . . and then they voted the Liberal Howard government back into power. Same as the voters in mid USA. Same as the Blair supporters in the UK. They are as narrow minded as the God fearing, Patriotic Americans who voted the Bush / Republican agenda back into power.

Now, if I was of Arab or Muslim descent, I'd have the shits big time with Western/White/Anglo countries account of all the bombs (real, physical, verbal, cultural, financial) that they are constantly throwing at me. We have government officials saying that all Arabs and Muslims should be suspected of being a terrorist. Some are even legislating their right to freedom away from them. And they are also consequently taking away my personal rights to freedom and democracy. Look at the infamous "Patriot Act" in the USA, "Anti Terrorism" acts in Australia, and many other similar policies around the planet.

There is a lot of anti - Lebanese sentiment around at the moment. Whilst I am not condoning the behaviour I am hearing about (especially the gang related stuff), think about where some of this behaviour and angst comes from!!! Remember Lebanon? Think about who is doing what to whom over there. Think of what money is supporting what oppression and violence. A lot of this is coming back to haunt the world now.

This is the price society pays for greed and power - this greed and power is in the hands of white/anglo/christian nations at the moment. Other are being oppressed, and there are signs that this oppression is becoming more and more Orwellian as time goes by. The end result:

If you keep putting someone down, eventually they will pull a gun out and kill you, or themselves.

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is there a reason why you have to single out the US for that one?

Me thinks the person was just making a point that the life guards are doing a community service which in theory would place them on higher moral ground than other people who are getting paid for doing the same role. Hence, the bashings are even a more despicable act. He probably mentioned USA because that is the only other place he could think of that has paid life guards - you know, lots of TV crap from the USA - Bayperv, etc. Ironically, Australia has a mixture of paid and volunteer life guards depending on the location. I would bet that Cronulla has paid life guards, but I could be wrong.

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but the media is meant to report the facts

Just like lawyers are meant to be just!!! The reality is that most media outlets are publically listed, and hence they are accountable to their boards and shareholders for profits. What drives profits? Consumption! Who consumes? The general public for most media related activity. Hence, you can't really blame the media for the crap that they present to the public. The public is demanding it. There are other influences including government policies that affect what is in the media.

Its for the money honey. Greed is what drives a lot of the issues on the planet.

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but I think you are a bit deluded if you think Australia really 'welcomes people from different cultures with open arms'.

Australia is really no different to any other country in the world. There is obvious racism in this country. Anglo's to Aborignals and Europeans, Euro's to Asians and Blacks, and now everyone to Muslims. Most cultures give preferential treatment to their own. Japanese, American, European, Asian, etc. I see it everywhere. I find that most people are welcoming if you are friendly and there is no chance of you becoming a permanent fixture in their society. But if there is a hint of permanency, their is a different attitude.

I think Australia welcomes people from different cultures out of necessity overall. But I have to also say that most people I meet are friendly enough. I have been to other places in the world where it is much worse. And you also have to remember that most "Australians" are of foreign descent anyway. So if this country is unwelcoming, there is more than one culture responsible.

- - - - - - - - - -
Someone made a comment about decreased Policing in Australia. Check the recruitment programs and intake volumes. The Police force is upsizing. Only problem is that 3/4 are on road patrol chasing revenue from traffic infringements.

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Someone mentioned targeting a race r.e. violence. Gangs by definition are a group of people who have something in common. Quite often the commonality is race, culture, or religion. When you have a culture that is suffering some oppresion as well, it becomes more likely that a minority will become more violent. Unfortunately, narrow minded media and uncultured inwardly focused people brand a whole culture based on what they see a minority of that culture doing. There are many examples of this: Croats were thought of as fascists for many years a/c their WW2 involvement. There were violent Croats in Australia over the last few decades, they are pretty rare now following Independance. The oppression has "ceased". The reason fro violence has diminished. I am not saying it is a valid reason, it just may be a root cause. Intolerance and policies of greed and power maintain oppressive situations. Hence if you can cure the root cause of the cancer, the affects are much less likely to occur. Unfortunately, $$$$$ talks.

p.s. I think any person who condones, incites, or is involved in violence against others should be punished in civil ways. This includes government officials who are branding entire cultures and races as violent.

p.s.s there is a good chance none of this will make sense. Happy New Year. Next glass of wine please.

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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What does everyone think about what/was happening here in Australia. We heard on the news that one guy was bashed whilst he put out his garbage bin!

The whole thing apparently started when a couple of surf life savers (people who pull you out of the ocean if you get into trouble - community service types not paid like american ones) were bashed by a group of people of lebanese decent. Groups of people (of lebanese decent) were apparently getting around in gangs in the area and threatening and intimidating people. A rally was then organised as the people of cronulla felt that their beach was getting taking over by people who didn't respect the ozzie way of life.

Well, that's just it. In country after country -- even in parts of the U.S. -- people who want to mollycoddle and appease the misfits who will not live peacefully side-by-side with the rest are getting their way. The courts side with them and go easy on evildoers. The courts, prosecutors, and police authorities go hard on those who defend against such evildoers using force. Everything, it seems, is set up to FAVOR the evildoers, and people on the left -- what we now call "liberals", the humanists who think there is good in everyone no matter how evil their acts -- jump up to defend the BAD people at the expense of the GOOD people. It is baffling to me why they think that gang members are more worthy of their ardent favor than good honest people.

But anyway, our societies are reaping the harvest that permissiveness and bleeding-heartism have sown.

Back when people expected swift, sure justice to rain down upon them for misdeeds, there was a lot less of the shit we see nowadays.

I do not blame myself. I am old-school. I hold with the "hang 'em high" bunch.

FUCK this "But we can still make him be a productive member of society" BULLSHIT.


-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

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[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Australia claims to be such a multicultual country. Why should it matter what backgroud the attackers were from when writing an objective news story? They are now Australian. Therefore shouldn't the story be simply about Australian youth attacking another Australian youth rather than emphasizing their racial background?

Pretend all you want that ethnicity has nothing to do with stuff like this.

You fool no one but those who wish to be fooled.

Funny how some people don't want race to be allowed to be a visible factor when racially-separatist people misbehave,
and then bash you in the face with racial identity every other chance they get.


-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Jasmin 0]

I've said my bit here:http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1986991#1986991
But in a nutshell, race is not the problem, justice and police resources are.

xj

"I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both."

[miked10270 0]

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I've said my bit here:http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1986991#1986991
But in a nutshell, race is not the problem, justice and police resources are.

Amen. This ISN'T a Race problem. This is a group of youths who form a gang and behave like animals. A decade ago they were "Football-Casuals", before that they were "Rockers", Teddy-Boys"....

"Race" is just the latest handy excuse for forming a mob and submerging their individuality to the lowest common "Mob-Culture" behaviour.

Or... In Non-Sociospeak: Adolescents ENJOY forming mobs; Gobbing off; Acting like pricks; and then impressing their mates and (in theory) GIRLS, wiff their tales of Derrin'-Do when it's finished.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[rehmwa 2]

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Point One - unless you are 100% aboriginal, either you or your ancestors have been "welcomed from other countries and cultures into Australia with open arms".

I've always thought this was a nutty position to take. Go back far enough, and even their ancestors may have come over from somewhere. What's the point? Who decides how far back we go for every area in the world to define "original" inhabitants? 5 years? 5000 thousand years?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Point One - unless you are 100% aboriginal, either you or your ancestors have been "welcomed from other countries and cultures into Australia with open arms".

I've always thought this was a nutty position to take. Go back far enough, and even their ancestors may have come over from somewhere. What's the point? Who decides how far back we go for every area in the world to define "original" inhabitants? 5 years? 5000 thousand years?

People all over the world bitch about the U.S. and how our settlers killed off the Indians.

How exactly does that differ from any other area of Europe where an invading army came in, was superior to, and displaced the army and the population of the preceding inhabitants?

Are the people who now live in England the same ones who were always there? How about Spain? Germany? Italy? Didn't Moors come through those areas and in some cases make the land theirs? And Saxons, and Gauls, etc. They went around pillaging and taking what was not theirs. Somewhere in all that mess were groups of people who are akin to the American Indians, who have a right to be indignant that they are not still left to their land.

Or DO they have a right to be indignant? Losers lose, right? When there's a conflict, if you lose, that's what happens.



All of that aside, I think it's really funny when something goes down and it's perpetrated by people of one distinguishable ethnicity and people scream and flail about claiming it has nothng to do with ethnicity.

What the fuck is it, then, coincidence?!


-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Trae 1]

This sort of shyt has been happening in Orstralia ever since the stinky caucasians landed on those beaches 200 years ago.

Now they report it ..............that's the only difference.

Such social violence used to be hushed up and hidden just like the aboriginal massacres.

Watch out if you travel alone in Australia particularly Nth Qld as there you could dissappear and no-one would even bother looking for you unless you were rich or famous.

News .yeah right.

[mikkey 0]

The content of this post is about the biggest pile of tripe and false claims I have seen for a long time.

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[Trae 1]

in reply to
The content of this post is about the biggest pile of tripe and false claims I have seen for a long time.
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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.
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Australia is a country full of the haves and the have nots.

The have nots obviously have a VERY different view to the haveit alls.

It's just more of the same for most of us ... oh boo hiss some-one got attacked at Cronulla . big deal.

I've had a life of watching my friends and family attacked and victimised by an uncaring country full of 'drive over the top of them' couldn't give a flying *@#% yobbo's .

you think it's tripe ? .......

that uncaring attitude is nothing new to a lot of us

When the people look like ants .....that's them eating you.

[TVPB 0]

My point is that some people want to decide who can come in the future. Yet they came there in the past AFTER someone else. This is the reverse of the point that you bring up. It is also the same idiotic logic that comes from people who buy houses near airports and power stations, and then they want to shut them down.

Who draws the line for the past and where? Who draws the line for the future, and where.

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.