President Bush Fires Back Against Critics

[Muenkel 0]

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but don't you also think that ALL of us in this forum are probably don't even know what we are talking about in some cases - we think we do. but for example none of us are directly linked to him and have to rely on biased media sources for information.

Shhh...you're not supposed to point that out in SC. SC is a place to make yourself feel intelligent. And if you add a clicky, you're super intelligent.

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Chris

[miked10270 0]

Remind me...

Who was it that said: "Patriotism is th last refuge for a Scoundrel"?

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[billvon 2,435]

>but don't you also think that ALL of us in this forum are probably
>don't even know what we are talking about in some cases - we think
> we do. but for example none of us are directly linked to him and
> have to rely on biased media sources for information.

I think that's true. We DON'T know. I recall a conservative poster here just before the invasion of Iraq betting me $100 that we'd find out real soon what the REAL reasons for the war were, the reasons they could not make public. (He never paid up, come to think of it.)

What seems scary lately is that it seems like NO ONE knows. WMD's were the stated reason for the war. Giving Bush the benefit of the doubt meant assuming that he had intelligence that Powell didn't present and that was not made public. Now we know that not only was there no secret intelligence that proved he had WMD's, even the information presented was incorrect.

So what happened? Did he present incorrect info because he just plain missed all the warnings on how the information was not reliable? Did he want the war so badly that he closed his ears to the caveats to the intelligence? Or did he actively supress the more questionable items? That's what the second part of the investigation will focus on.

[ReBirth 0]

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but don't you also think that ALL of us in this forum are probably don't even know what we are talking about in some cases - we think we do. but for example none of us are directly linked to him and have to rely on biased media sources for information.

Shhh...you're not supposed to point that out in SC. SC is a place to make yourself feel intelligent. And if you add a clicky, you're super intelligent.

No shit...we all know we really know everything!!!

The point that we DON;T know is why we discuss it. If we all knew the truth, there would be nothing to debate.

We shouldn't need to put IMHO on every post. Every post on here is assumed to be opinion. At least I don't believe just about anything I read on here. Especially what I write!

[Muenkel 0]

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So what happened? Did he present incorrect info because he just plain missed all the warnings on how the information was not reliable? Did he want the war so badly that he closed his ears to the caveats to the intelligence? Or did he actively supress the more questionable items? That's what the second part of the investigation will focus on.

Do you think we can add one more question? That all the intelligence that was presented to Bush, Clinton, Kennedy, Kerry, et al; truly pointed to Saddam having WMD and was a threat to selling or using against us? Maybe we went into this war with honest intentions. Could that be possible?

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Chris

[b1jercat 0]

Nice try = No

blues

Jerry

[Muenkel 0]

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Nice try = No

Care to elaborate?

Bill's questions were obviously slanted toward GWB having basically immoral intentions. I thought I would balance it.

Just because you believe it to be so does not make it so.

_________________________________________
Chris

[billvon 2,435]

>That all the intelligence that was presented to Bush, Clinton,
>Kennedy, Kerry, et al; truly pointed to Saddam having WMD . . .

We now know that there was a significant amount of intelligence that pointed to him NOT having WMD's, so we know that can't be true. Is it possible that the people looking at it (not just Bush) ignored those bits of info because they thought they were not credible, but the other intelligence was? That it was all one big honest mistake? Perhaps. Again, that's what the second half of the investigation will determine.

[Muenkel 0]

I'm all for the 2nd half of the investigation and getting to the truth. I mean the real truth, not Washington DC's version of truth...if that's possible. I'm just not willing to condemn our administration just yet. We're in this dangerous war right now whether we like it or not. Our goal should be to win it and win it quickly. We can sort out all the politics afterwards. If Bush is found to have lied, I will be the first person calling for his impeachment, even though I think it is really bad for this country to have 2 presidents impeached in a row. Right now, I wish we can unify as a country and get behind winning this war, getting the Iraqi troops trained, getting Iraq independent and democratic and getting our troops home. Despite what the critics say, a democratic Iraq is good for the Iraqis, the region and the world. And finally, Saddam Hussein behind bars is a good thing.

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Chris

[b1jercat 0]

Muenkel, I don't think GWB had immoral intentions,
I don't think GWB had a private ajenda, however I think he was manipulated. Either way you have to support the guys in harms way.

blues

Jerry

[Gawain 0]

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It's a shame the press doesn't provide a true display of the filth coming out of Kennedy's, Polisi's, Reid's mouths

SO I guess our beloved Vice President's use of profanity is a good thing in your mind.
http://www.whitehouse.org/initiatives/posters/cheney-fuck.asp

You can't even link the actual story of when that happened. Amazing. You can the discussion about it right here. Senator Leahy can not be held in reverence in light of some of the things he's been able to get away with. The VP telling him to "f**k himself" in a direct manner, versus slandering Leahy on the national news are two different things.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Gawain 0]

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>Anyway, the President gave a speech yesterday

I saw that. Man, he's getting desperate.

I don't see it that way. I think his response to the mouthpieces of the democrats is overdue.

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>"it is deeply irresponsible to rewrite the history of how that war began."

I thought that was hilarious coming from him. What reason is he up to now for going to war? Remember when it was to stop Saddam from using his WMD's on us? Then it was revised to freeing the oppressed but freedom-loving people of Iraq. When they didn't welcome us with flowers, it became "the central front in the war on terror." Which would be the third rewrite.

I'll remind you exactly what the President said on the eve of the invasion of Iraq. You tell me who's revising history:

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President Bush Addresses the Nation
The Oval Office

President's Remarks
March 19, 2003
10:16 P.M. EST

THE PRESIDENT: My fellow citizens, at this hour, American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger.

On my orders, coalition forces have begun striking selected targets of military importance to undermine Saddam Hussein's ability to wage war. These are opening stages of what will be a broad and concerted campaign. More than 35 countries are giving crucial support -- from the use of naval and air bases, to help with intelligence and logistics, to the deployment of combat units. Every nation in this coalition has chosen to bear the duty and share the honor of serving in our common defense.

To all the men and women of the United States Armed Forces now in the Middle East, the peace of a troubled world and the hopes of an oppressed people now depend on you. That trust is well placed.

The enemies you confront will come to know your skill and bravery. The people you liberate will witness the honorable and decent spirit of the American military. In this conflict, America faces an enemy who has no regard for conventions of war or rules of morality. Saddam Hussein has placed Iraqi troops and equipment in civilian areas, attempting to use innocent men, women and children as shields for his own military -- a final atrocity against his people.

I want Americans and all the world to know that coalition forces will make every effort to spare innocent civilians from harm. A campaign on the harsh terrain of a nation as large as California could be longer and more difficult than some predict. And helping Iraqis achieve a united, stable and free country will require our sustained commitment.

We come to Iraq with respect for its citizens, for their great civilization and for the religious faiths they practice. We have no ambition in Iraq, except to remove a threat and restore control of that country to its own people.

I know that the families of our military are praying that all those who serve will return safely and soon. Millions of Americans are praying with you for the safety of your loved ones and for the protection of the innocent. For your sacrifice, you have the gratitude and respect of the American people. And you can know that our forces will be coming home as soon as their work is done.

Our nation enters this conflict reluctantly -- yet, our purpose is sure. The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder. We will meet that threat now, with our Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and Marines, so that we do not have to meet it later with armies of fire fighters and police and doctors on the streets of our cities.

Now that conflict has come, the only way to limit its duration is to apply decisive force. And I assure you, this will not be a campaign of half measures, and we will accept no outcome but victory.

My fellow citizens, the dangers to our country and the world will be overcome. We will pass through this time of peril and carry on the work of peace. We will defend our freedom. We will bring freedom to others and we will prevail.

May God bless our country and all who defend her.

END 10:20 P.M. EST

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>they deserve to know that their elected leaders who voted to send
>them to war continue to stand behind them . . .

So he has changed "authorization for the use of force if diplomacy fails" to "declaration of war?" A bit of a contradiction; nothing a little revisionism can't fix.

I see no declaration of war, where are you pulling that from?

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>The 9/11 commission found no manipulation of information or intel . . .

As you well know, the SECOND part of the 9/11 commission, the part that's been stalled by republicans until the democrats pulled that closed-session stunt, is the part that will determine whether there was any manipulation of information or intelligence.

I guarantee you that if the second part of that report finds nothing, it won't get covered in the press one bit. In fact, it's already been delivered if I'm not mistaken, it was due the Tuesday following the stunt you mentioned.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[billvon 2,435]

>I'll remind you exactly what the President said on the eve of the invasion of Iraq . . .

Are you honestly saying that Saddam's WMD's were not put forth as the primary cause for the war? Wow. Just - wow.

>I see no declaration of war, where are you pulling that from?

Their elected leaders did not vote to send them to war. Only a declaration of war would do that. The resolution they passed authorized Bush to use force IF DIPLOMACY FAILED. The resolution stated that every effort would be made to resolve the situation diplomatically. In other words, they gave the president power he already had.

>I guarantee you that if the second part of that report finds nothing,
>it won't get covered in the press one bit.

I'll bet you $100 it does. Loser pays winner's favorite charity.

[kallend 1,651]

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"Our nation enters this conflict reluctantly -- yet, our purpose is sure. The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder. We will meet that threat now, with our Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and Marines, so that we do not have to meet it later with armies of fire fighters and police and doctors on the streets of our cities. "

We know he was lying then, and now he lies again. Why do you believe a single word he utters?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[skydyvr 0]

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We know he was lying then, and now he lies again. Why do you believe a single word he utters?

You ought to immediately contact the Senate Intelligence Committee and fill them in.

. . =(_8^(1)

[Gawain 0]

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>I'll remind you exactly what the President said on the eve of the invasion of Iraq . . .

Are you honestly saying that Saddam's WMD's were not put forth as the primary cause for the war? Wow. Just - wow.

Did I say that? No. I'm just reminding you that WMDs were not the only reason we went in. That was put forth by the leadership from the very beginning.

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>I see no declaration of war, where are you pulling that from?

Their elected leaders did not vote to send them to war. Only a declaration of war would do that. The resolution they passed authorized Bush to use force IF DIPLOMACY FAILED. The resolution stated that every effort would be made to resolve the situation diplomatically. In other words, they gave the president power he already had.

Exactly, and do you honestly think diplomacy worked, at all? Shit, look at Iran, they're changing their tune every 10 mintues or so. They can't even play a political tactic in this part of the country.

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>I guarantee you that if the second part of that report finds nothing,
>it won't get covered in the press one bit.

I'll bet you $100 it does. Loser pays winner's favorite charity.

Since I'm in the army and relatively poor, make it $50. Just so we're clear, whenever the Select Committee on Intelligence Phase II report is reviewed, the mainstream press will glaze over it and look for the opposing views still, if there is no manipulation of intelligence found.

I'll leave it to you to define, in whatever level of articulation you want, what manipulation means, what amount of coverage would be a threshold of non-coverage, etc.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Gravitymaster 0]

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"Our nation enters this conflict reluctantly -- yet, our purpose is sure. The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder. We will meet that threat now, with our Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and Marines, so that we do not have to meet it later with armies of fire fighters and police and doctors on the streets of our cities. "

We know he was lying then, and now he lies again. Why do you believe a single word he utters?

WEAPONS Of MASS DESTRUCTION (WMD)PRESSURE CONCLUSIONS

(U) Conclusion 83. The Committee did not find any evidence that Administration officials attempted to coerce, influence or pressure analysts to change their judgements related to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction calabilities.

(U) Conclusion 84. The Committee found no evidence that the Vice President's visits to the Central Intelligence Agency were attempts to pressure analysts, were perceived as intended to pressure analysts by those that participated in the briefings on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs, or did pressure analysts to change their assessments.

http://intelligence.senate.gov/conclusions.pdf

Are you invoking the Al Franken style of debate?

[shropshire 0]

Possibly on the subject of hiding (spinning) the truth.... Does anyone know what was contained in the 8000 pages that were removed by the US Govenment from the Jan-2003 Iraqi Dossier??

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[AlexCrowley 0]

This thread makes my head hurt.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[Mike111 0]

[Mike111 0]

I would assume there was some suppression of questionable terms, I mean most politicians would jump at the chance to get away with something if they could.

However, although i favour bush, my criticism of himis his arrogance - he could have handled the war better but soem of the problems he faced today could have been prevetned if he didnt believe he could get away with everything and dealt with themn more appropriately.

I am guessing he lacks a lot of trust from his citizens.

[shropshire 0]

clicky

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Mike111 0]

wiseass!!!

[shropshire 0]

TeHe

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[akarunway 1]

"The people you liberate will witness the honorable and decent spirit of the American military. In this conflict, America faces an enemy who has no regard for conventions of war or rules of morality". =Can you say "Abu Garub". Gimme a break w/ all your killin war machine fasist nazi corparate scum mother fuckers. No offense to all the honest ,decent hardworking military people out there that are putting their life on the line. I come from a military family. This war and administration has got me SMOKIN MAD PISSED Pardon the spellin too. Vent over

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.