i'm NOT christian... and proud of it!!!

[JackC 0]

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"Evolution is unproved and unprovable. We believe it only because the alternative is Special Creation, and that is unthinkable."
--Sir Arthur Keith

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Science offers us an explanation of how complexity (the difficult) arose out of simplicity (the easy). The hypothesis of God offers no worthwhile explanation for anything, for it simply postulates what we are trying to explain. It postulates the difficult to explain, and leaves it at that. - Prof. Richard Dawkins

Again, I do wish you folks would criticise evolutionary biology for what it actually is instead of dragging up the same old straw man arguments.

[philh 0]

"You're kidding, right? Like you said, it's just an analogy. The point has nothing to do with actually jumping from a commercial airliner. Sorry you missed it. "

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Yeah i got it was analogy. my response was also an analogy. Did you not see it? Let me spell it out for you:
Downside of wearing your rig ona commercial jet.
There's no evidence it will help in the event of fatal event eg a crash
It will make your plane ride less comfortable.

Downside of Christianity:
There is no evidence it will help in the event of any , well, anything.
It will make your life less comfortable along the way eg personally you have to go to church instead of going skydiving or getting laid. Furthermore globally religion is a huge cause of misery.

"By the way, it was not my analogy. I cited the author. "

By the way if you dont want to take responsibility for the arguments you cut and paste dont put them up in the first place.

You quotes about tranisitional forms in the fossil records are complete lies. I notice you dont quote any refereed sceintific journals. Why is that?Is your best source of science Time magazine?

I did a short stint at marine mammal labs in Hawaii and worked on a Catecaen project. I can tell you exactly the tranistional fossils found between modern whales and there ancient ancestors:

Pakacetus circa 52million years ago- was a wolf life creature that had an inner ear adapted for directional hearing under water

Ambulocetus circa 49million year ago; a cetacean with fingers and hooves but with a rear feet adapted for swimming

Rhodocetus circa 47 million years ago has a simliar anatomy to Ambolocetus except the ear region is further enahnced for underwater, the legs are not attached to the pelvis and the neck is shorter all of these are adaptations to improve the animals performance in the water.

Basilosaurus cicra 40 million years ago was very much like a whale but it still had left overs from its non whale ancestors, in particualr hind legs that it could not walk on. How do you explain that?

Lack of tranistional fossils? Pure and utter BS. When Chrsitians repeat this bold faced lie I know they dont take their own Commandment about not not lying seriously.

[philh 0]

sorry inserted in reply to by error thats my text in that section.

[jakee 1,255]

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Please explain why the "evolutionists" always say that the alligator has existed for millions of years. Did it just finally decide that it liked what it had become, and therefore refused to evolve anymore.

It always amazes me how many creationists think evolution is driven by conscious desire to change on the part of the animal.

Do you even realise how moronic that is and how much you've been lied to by your precious anti-Darwinism 'experts' that fill your head with these ridiculous falsehoods?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 1,623]

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What a load of rubbish. Transitional forms are discovered every year. Not all of them are dinosaur size, but they are transitional nonetheless.

Please explain why the "evolutionists" always say that the alligator has existed for millions of years. Did it just finally decide that it liked what it had become, and therefore refused to evolve anymore.

It has always been a reptile, and it has always been an alligator.

Misrepresenting the predictions of a theory and then attacking that misrepresentation is NOT a very clever debating tactic.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JackC 0]

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Misrepresenting the predictions of a theory and then attacking that misrepresentation is NOT a very clever debating tactic.

It got ID taught in some science classes. What does that tell you?

[philh 0]

a Class that teaches ID is not a science class.

[JackC 0]

I completely agree. Unfortunately in the US and even in the UK, the creationists have succeeded in their straw man arguments and ID is being taught in some science classes despite the very definition of the word science. This is a crying shame because children will grow up thinking that superstition is valid science when it absolutely isn't. I worry that the education system that promotes this and the poor kids that suffer through it will become the laughing stock of the global science community. It's nothing short of child abuse.

[Nightingale 0]

If I had kids and they were being taught ID in science class, I can't imagine many things that would get me to pull them out of that school faster.

[hairyjuan 0]

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"Missing Link" Still Missing

Imaginations certainly took flight over Archaeoraptor Liaoningensis, a birdlike fossil with a meat-eater’s tail that was spirited out of northeastern China, ‘discovered’ at a Tucson, Arizona, gem and mineral show last year, and displayed at the National Geographic Society in Washington, D.C. Some 110,000 visitors saw the exhibit, which closed January 17; millions more read about the find in November’s National Geographic. Now, paleontologists are eating crow. Instead of ‘a true missing link’ connecting dinosaurs to birds, the specimen appears to be a composite, its unusual appendage likely tacked on by a Chinese farmer, not evolution.

"Archaeoraptor is hardly the first ‘missing link’ to snap under scrutiny. In 1912, fossil remains of an ancient hominid were found in England’s Piltdown quarries and quickly dubbed man’s apelike ancestor. It took decades to reveal the hoax." U.S. News & World Report, February 14, 2000

"Darwin admitted that millions of ‘missing links,’ transitional life forms, would have to be discovered in the fossil record to prove the accuracy of his theory that all species had gradually evolved by chance mutation into new species. Unfortunately for his theory, despite hundreds of millions spent on searching for fossils worldwide for more than a century, the scientists have failed to locate a single missing link out of the millions that must exist if their theory of evolution is to be vindicated." Grant R. Jeffery, The Signature of God

"There are gaps in the fossil graveyard, places where there should be intermediate forms, but where there is nothing whatsoever instead. No paleontologist . . . denies that this is so. It is simply a fact. Darwin’s theory and the fossil record are in conflict." David Berlinsky

"Scientists concede that their most cherished theories are based on embarrassingly few fossil fragments and that huge gaps exist in the fossil record." Time magazine, Nov. 7, 1977

"The evolutionists seem to know everything about the missing link except the fact that it is missing." G. K. Chesterton

jesus love you? not
mt. 10:34-37

do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; i havenot come to bring peace, but with a sword. for I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a duaghter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's foes will be those of his own household. ho who loves father and mother more than me is not worthy


luke 19:27 Bring all those who will not bow to me befoper and slay them before me

we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively


wishers never choose, choosers never wish

[kallend 1,623]

Something the Christian Right in the US needs to pay more attention to:

33"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,400]

>"Scientists concede that their most cherished theories are based
>on embarrassingly few fossil fragments and that huge gaps exist in the
>fossil record." Time magazine, Nov. 7, 1977

They're not embarrassed any more. They've discovered tens of thousands of new transitional forms in the 30 years since then - and can now trace our lineage with greater precision than ever before. (BTW, the latest "missing link" in the avian lineage is Gansus Yumenensis, which is a transitional form between Archaeopteryx and modern birds.)

Hoping science stops making discoveries is, in my opinion, a bad thing to place one's faith on.

>"the scientists have failed to locate a single missing link out of the
>millions that must exist if their theory of evolution is to be vindicated."
>Grant R. Jeffery, The Signature of God

I wonder if he will now retract his statement?

[hairyjuan 0]

the bible is a myth, christianity is the source of FASCISM. not what the liar's currently preach. the opening statement of this thread is the truth . shame on biblethumpers for turning the thruth about religionn thread into a revival thread

www.tbknews.blogspot.com


www.freethoughtmedia.com

we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively


wishers never choose, choosers never wish

[kallend 1,623]

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the bible is a myth, christianity is the source of FASCISM. not what the liar's currently preach. the opening statement of this thread is the truth . shame on biblethumpers for turning the thruth about religionn thread into a revival thread

www.tbknews.blogspot.com


www.freethoughtmedia.com

Well, the teachings of Jesus (whether he was synthesized by others or a real person) as found in the Sermon on the Mount, and the section I just quoted above, form a pretty good basis for a code of conduct. The big problem is that organized religion, including especially the religious fascists (starting with Paul's "Epistles"), has so distorted the message for its own ends that the real message is almost unrecognizeable any more.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[GTAVercetti 0]

You know who often scream the loudest even when they "know" they are correct?

Those who are actually unsure that they are correct.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[rehmwa 2]

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You know who often scream the loudest

Those who accidently sit on a chainsaw?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[windcatcher 0]

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[Royd 0]

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Pakacetus circa 52million years ago- was a wolf life creature that had an inner ear adapted for directional hearing under water

Ambulocetus circa 49million year ago; a cetacean with fingers and hooves but with a rear feet adapted for swimming

Rhodocetus circa 47 million years ago has a simliar anatomy to Ambolocetus except the ear region is further enahnced for underwater, the legs are not attached to the pelvis and the neck is shorter all of these are adaptations to improve the animals performance in the water.

Basilosaurus cicra 40 million years ago was very much like a whale but it still had left overs from its non whale ancestors

And you can confirm these time lines beyond a shadow of a doubt, how?

Sounds to me like they were pulled out of the air to give the appearance of authority.

[philh 0]

Beyond a shadow of a doubt?
NO, nothing is beyond a shadow of a doubt in science. Perhpas you are thinking of your own dogmatic beliefs. But pulled out of thin air? Go and buy a geology text book and come back to me when you have something serious to say.Alternatively provide us witha referreed scientific paper which contradicts all of the palentology, geology and physics that agrees with the standards dates and maybe we can take your argument seriously.

Furthermore even if the dates are wrong the fossils show a transition between animals that are more and more whale link so it wouldnt make any difference to the argument as to whether these tranisiotnal fossils exist, only the date as to when the transtion happened and thats not what we are debating anyway.

[JackC 0]

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Sounds to me like they were pulled out of the air to give the appearance of authority.

Why don't you read the original work to see what they found and how they found it? It's all available to anyone who wants it. You can even trace all the techniques and theories back through to first principles if you so desire.

You talk of appeals to authority and dismiss work you can actually check in favour of "godidit" which you can't. If that isn't the ultimate appeal to authority I don't know what is.

[Royd 0]

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Beyond a shadow of a doubt?
NO, nothing is beyond a shadow of a doubt in science

I have two problems with the whole thing. First, the numbers. You can't prove them , so please don't pretend to know exactly when things happened. Say something like "We really don't know.It could have been anywhere from 10,000 yrs. to 3 million yrs.

The other problem is that all of these things happened some time in the distant past.
I should be able to walk outside and see transitional species abounding everywhere.

There was a baby recently born with three arms. Could that be one or was that just a freak of nature?

[jakee 1,255]

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The other problem is that all of these things happened some time in the distant past.
I should be able to walk outside and see transitional species abounding everywhere.

You do.

First the 'How can animals decide to change' argument and now the 'Why can't I see animals still evolving' argument. Man you are really digging up the classics here!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Lindsey 0]

I think this thread demonstrates that evolution is a thing of the past.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[kallend 1,623]

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Beyond a shadow of a doubt?
NO, nothing is beyond a shadow of a doubt in science

I have two problems with the whole thing. First, the numbers. You can't prove them , so please don't pretend to know exactly when things happened. Say something like "We really don't know.It could have been anywhere from 10,000 yrs. to 3 million yrs.

The other problem is that all of these things happened some time in the distant past.
I should be able to walk outside and see transitional species abounding everywhere.

There was a baby recently born with three arms. Could that be one or was that just a freak of nature?

And what definitive objective proof do YOU have of the correctness of the Bible, especially considering its internal contradictions?

NO biblically derived theory of creation predicts fossils or transitional forms.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[pajarito 0]

What I seem to find is that there are a lot of fossils with some similar features being placed in a timeline even though the key element proving they are transitional is missing. That key piece is just assumed to make it fit the puzzle. Also, if dating shows that it is older or younger than previously thought, or if it can't be very accurate and the margin of error is huge, it is just put wherever it best fits.