Lewis Libby Indictment

[sfc 0]

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My issue with you is that you had to drag clinton into this thread, why did you do that, it is not relevent to this and was just one of your attempt to cloud the issue.

Nope. I believe perjury is perjury. Clinton was guilty of it. It's yet to be seen if Libby is. Yes I do think there would be an investigation

You said hilary clinton not bill, unless I missed out real bad on the facts she wasn't found guilty of any crime or even indicted.

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and why would they make this information, which is still classified, available to the general public.

What classified information have they made public?

Duh, the fact that she was covert, just because it was leaked does not mean it is not still classified

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It is just another attempt to divert attention. Several folks are using it, you have to wonder if you are all reading the same web site or listening to the same talk radio.

Actually, it's an attempt to present the other side of an issue. You do believe in learning other points of view, don't you? If not, you can just hang out at Moveon.org and let them pollute your mind.

So in summary, you think it's all over, Libby is guilty because they wouldn't be spending all this money unless he was guilty, right?

I don't read moveon.org, and I don't know if he is guilty but I am just amazed at the lengths you go to make excuses for a bush official getting indicted even though he has not been found guilty of anything yet, I think that you are so indoctrinated that you would argue the sky was green if bush/republicania said it was so. All I tried to do was object to you bringing up clinton in this discussion and you let rip with this.
I am also amazed at your inability to think outside of the party line, it demonstrates an lack of independent thought. All you do is churn out the same partisan drivel, post after post, thread after thread, it is quite sad.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I am also amazed at your inability to think outside of the party line, it demonstrates an lack of independent thought. All you do is churn out the same partisan drivel, post after post, thread after thread, it is quite sad.

A quick check of your posting history makes me laugh so hard and so loud at this statement I almost peed my pants.

[TheAnvil 0]

I find your attempt to malign my drinking with my friend this evening to such a thing utterly sickening. Ron was banned for far less, but then again, though he did push the limits on occasion, he always had a penchant for getting banned for nothing - even telling someone they sounded like a lawyer or merely shooting a PM to a moderator.

'You're' vice 'your' would be the correct way of putting that, by the way.

I find it most odd you think Mrs. Wilson's livelihood has been destroyed. I seriously doubt the Wilsons are in any financial jam. Cover - if there ever was one - blown does not equate to utter financial destitution, lack of job skills, or even loss of job. If she was undercover, she'll probably be reassigned within the organization to an overt role. If she was always overt, no big deal other than a lot of unwanted attention & publicity (recall that her husband was a political advisor for the sKerry campaign, so the chance of publicity for that family was always there).

The uproar this caused in contrast with other leaks which caused relatively little is almost humorous in the abstract. The leak - if there was one - probably occurred in a manner like I describe in the following sentences. Wilson made a report and the administration didn't like it. Somebody asked for a bio to be written up on him, it was accomplished, and the bio was briefed. Any bio of any ambassador is going to include something on his wife because of the massive social interaction with foreign dignitaries anyone in such a position would have, including a bit about her employment history. Somebody - the person Fitzgerald and everyone else would love to lay their hands on - who heard the brief leaked the information later during an interview or a conversation with someone - or perhaps someone they told, in turn, told someone else who told someone else. Malign in nature - perhaps, but I doubt it. Potential is definitely there, hence the Grand Jury - which produced no indictment for leaking the identity of a covert agent.

It did produce perjury indictments, however. I'm drunk as hell and going to bed. Why don't you shoot us some links to read corroborating your statements. Real news sites and not some leftist crackpot garbage. CNN would be nice - FOX even better.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[wmw999 2,126]

Vinny, Valerie Plame is a person, not a symbol. That is not as important to this indictment as her position, but here's another viewpoint:

Story from Houston Chronicle.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[TheAnvil 0]

She is a person and I'm sorry she's been harmed in any way. I thought his particularly impressive, aside from her academic/professional accomplishments and the even tougher job of being a mother to twins:

"Known by her married name, she lives a relatively quiet life in an upscale Washington neighborhood, helps run a support network for women suffering from postpartum depression "

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[wmw999 2,126]

That's her cover.
She also travelled frequently overseas as a "consultant."

There aren't a whole lot of women who travel overseas as part of their postpartum depression volunteer work.

I'm the treasurer of a church.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SkyDekker 1,129]

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Y'know, Vinny, you seem to spend an awful lot of time talking about how stupid people you disagree with are, and how little you care. Seems like a contradiction kinda.

Talking down to others to make oneself look better is a well known side effect of SMS.

Plame's own family did not know she worked for the CIA...that would make her job some what covert, don't you think?

[DaVinci 0]

I have a question.

Does anyone see how one side who defended a President lying under oath, seems to be up in arms about a fairly low level aide lying under oath?

Lets face facts. Maybe Lewis lied. That will come out in a trial or in a plea bargain, and I hope justice is done.

But I find people who defended a President lying under oath but claiming that this current President should be shamed or blamed for a Vice President Aide lying to be a bit strange.

Also Clinton was in fact found guilty and Libby has not yet.

If Libby is in fact found guilty, then I hope he gets the same punishment Clinton had. Well in truth I hope he gets a real punishment not like Clinton received.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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a fairly low level aide

That is funny

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=109719
http://www.slate.com/id/2128530?nav=wp

Just two articles about him. He is not low level. He was instrumental in planning and pushing the Iraq war for one. He just prefers to stay out of the spotlight.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Wopelao 0]

And why don't you care to answer the actual question? Is it hard to understand it?

I believe that the part on the liying under oath should be punished, but to answer the question, I expect the double standard set by Clinton's sheep.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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And why don't you care to answer the actual question? Is it hard to understand it?

I believe that the part on the liying under oath should be punished, but to answer the question, I expect the double standard set by Clinton's sheep.

I responded to a portion of what you posted that I found to be incorrect. The correct items I did not respond to.

But for the record, I am not, nor I have I ever been a democrat. Or republican for that matter.

Perjury is perjury.

It would be great if you would not assume something about me when you obviously have not bothered to read any of my previous posts.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Wopelao 0]

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It would be great if you would not assume something about me when you obviously have not bothered to read any of my previous posts.

All I assume is the fact that you did not respond his question.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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It would be great if you would not assume something about me when you obviously have not bothered to read any of my previous posts.

All I assume is the fact that you did not respond his question.

And if you would bother to read thiswhole thread, you would know my opinion on perjury by clinton or by libby.

Is there a disparity between left reaction to clinton and libby? Yes. But is there disparity between right reaction to the same issues? Yes.

to sum up:

left wing - clinton - perjury techinicality | libby - kill him

right wing - clinton - kill him| libby - perjury technicality

So once again, I raelly couldn't care less about each side's reaction. That is why I did not bother to answer. Perjury is perjury.

So instead, I took argument with the idea that Libby is some non-entity. Libby is NOT some low level aide. That is absurd.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Wopelao 0]

Thanks.

[DaVinci 0]

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That is funny

http://www.americanprogress.org/...JRJ8OVF&b=109719
http://www.slate.com/id/2128530?nav=wp

Just two articles about him. He is not low level. He was instrumental in planning and pushing the Iraq war for one. He just prefers to stay out of the spotlight.

He is still a low level aide when you compare to the President himself. Libby is an AIDE to a VICE President. While thats more power than you or I have, its really not much in the political system.

What I don't get is how the left can scream, "Its all Bush's fault." While at the same time defending Clinton's perjury.

also from your first website:" Irv Lewis "Scooter" Libby - White House adviser, mystery novelist, and neoconservative guiding light - has been one of the most important men pulling the levers behind the Bush administration.

Libby, who has held more titles in the Bush White House than can fit on a business card, served most prominently (until his resignation today) as vice presidential chief of staff. From the very beginning of the administration, Libby has essentially been Dick Cheney's Dick Cheney - an odd combination of H.R. Haldeman and Harry Hopkins, seemingly managing every detail of the vice president's professional life"

But also: "Every day we challenge conservative thinking that undermines the bedrock American values of liberty, community and shared responsibility."

That does not sound like a "Balanced" source.

Sorry, but you are going to have to do more to show that he was more than just an "Aide" to justify one side trying to blame the President for his actions when they defended Clinton.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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He is still a low level aide when you compare to the President himself. Libby is an AIDE to a VICE President. While thats more power than you or I have, its really not much in the political system.

What I don't get is how the left can scream, "Its all Bush's fault." While at the same time defending Clinton's perjury.

Well, stop comparing him to the president. EVERYONE is lower level compared to him. This vice president is probably one of the most powerful in years.

The guy was a MAJOR player in planning the war. He is a big behind the scenes type of guy. He has plenty of influence. I am not really certain how you can say he is not important in the political system. What? Because he is not in line for sucession of president? So the Chief of Staff for the Prez is also JUST an aide? How about vice chief of staff?

You seem to be making him out to be some kind of "hey get me a coffee" intern or something.

And he is not.

Here is another link:

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1028LibbyProfile28-ON.html

and a quote from the article:

"Libby was known as "Cheney's Cheney." Just as President Bush has Cheney as his behind-the-scenes adviser and problem-solver, Cheney had Libby as his trusted right-hand man. "Scooter is to Cheney as Cheney is to Bush," former Cheney aide Mary Matalin said."

You don't have to get why the left screams about it. Who cares? Left and Right ALWAYS contradict themselves when it suits their purpose. Just look at Hutchinson.

What matters is that THIS IMPORTANT man potentially committed a crime. Try to ignore the outside factors and focus on that.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[GTAVercetti 0]

That SAME story appears on Fox News. There is your RIGHT source for ya. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,173843,00.html

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[ReBirth 0]

Somthing I overheard...

The shell company that was her cover while working overseas was exposed as well, thereby exposing dozens of other agents using the same company as cover.

Possibly there are other spouses/relatives of diplomats that happen to be field agents. I'm sure they're enjoying closer scrutiny.

No matter how you try to spin this, it was NOT OK for the whitehouse to expose this woman. It was bad for the country, and if it was done intentionally, is treasonous.

[DaVinci 0]

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The guy was a MAJOR player in planning the war. He is a big behind the scenes type of guy. He has plenty of influence. I am not really certain how you can say he is not important in the political system

You can keep exagerating how much power this Aide has if you like. You can even keep finding biased sites all day long that tell you what you want to try and prove. The fact will always be that this guy is nothing in the political world. If it were not for the Left wanting to try and damage him in the hopes to try and drag anyone else down in this Administration it would be another nothing.

Just like when Starr went after Clinton for a blowjob. Again, the blowjob I don't think most care about. It was the fact that the President lied under oath about it that wa the big deal. Of course the left thought it was nothing, but are quick to jump all over some Aide to a Vice President to try and gain political ammo.

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What matters is that THIS IMPORTANT man potentially committed a crime. Try to ignore the outside factors and focus on that.

You have a guy that is reported to have outted a CIA agent whoes husband had refered to her as his "CIA wife" at parties.

You have to look past the agenda of a political party to see this is nothing more than a lame attempt to try and hurt the party in power. It seems you are unwilling to do that.

If Libby comitted a crime I am sure he will be found guilty. I also hope that he gets punished along the same lines that the last major bull shit witch hunt AKA, Monica Gate.

It is amazing how you can glaze over the past BS and rally around this one since it fits your agenda.

[billvon 2,405]

>You can even keep finding biased sites all day long . . .

You consider FOX News a biased left wing site? What would an impartial site be - Tom Delay's home page?

>You have a guy that is reported to have outted a CIA agent whoes
>husband had refered to her as his "CIA wife" at parties.

You've been reading too many right wing blogs. Blaming the victim isn't going to make this one go away. Treason is a serious crime, and it's not OK to brush it under the carpet.

[JohnnyD 0]

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Somthing I overheard...

The shell company that was her cover while working overseas was exposed as well, thereby exposing dozens of other agents using the same company as cover.

Possibly there are other spouses/relatives of diplomats that happen to be field agents. I'm sure they're enjoying closer scrutiny.

No matter how you try to spin this, it was NOT OK for the whitehouse to expose this woman. It was bad for the country, and if it was done intentionally, is treasonous.

Correct. Every agent that has passed that business card has been, in some way, compromised.

[TheAnvil 0]

Overhead from where?

Can't recall anyone ever saying it was OK to leak information. From whence did you get that?

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[GTAVercetti 0]

Yeah I knew you would say that. Here ya go.

Here are more

Daily Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/29/wbush329.xml

Opening line: "Lewis "Scooter" Libby, until yesterday the chief of staff to Dick Cheney, the United States vice-president, has been described as "the most powerful Washington figure most people never heard of".

and Times

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-1847564,00.html

Both are conservative papers and both label Libby as someone with clout.


Now, where are YOU getting your info that he is a nothing? All I see is your uninformed opinion based seemingly based on the idea that you have never heard of him (see quote above). Its amazing how you can glaze over sources so this can fit YOUR agenda. I could give left, right, center, top, bottom, whatever and you would just disregard

I think I could throw you information DIRECTLY from the white house website and you would STILL say I have some agenda.

And stop implying I am a democrat please. I am not some big Clinton supporter who thought his perjury was no big deal.

But the fact is that THAT situation is gone and not coming back. The current one is that this man may have lied. Let's deal with the present please.

To go the EXTREME: Do we let a guy off for murder simply because we let the last guy go?

Perjury ain't murder, but last time I checked, it was still a crime.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

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I am also amazed at your inability to think outside of the party line, it demonstrates an lack of independent thought. All you do is churn out the same partisan drivel, post after post, thread after thread, it is quite sad.

A quick check of your posting history makes me laugh so hard and so loud at this statement I almost peed my pants.

Long's or most other drug stores will sell you adult diapers to help you with your incontinence, they are next to the regular baby diapers I buy for my 1 year old, he also does what he is told by his parents, but by the time he is grown up he will think for himself.

[ReBirth 0]

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Can't recall anyone ever saying it was OK to leak information. From whence did you get that?

Ummm...from you. Your posts have been pushing the agenda that even if Libby leaked the info, it's no big deal because she wasn't that important and it didn't realy compromise her anyway.

Stop making excuses and look at the issues. I know you're a smart guy, Vin. You're just way too partisan some times. Step back and think about it. I know you'll see the bullshit. No it's not a conspiracy theory...it's a conspiracy, and it's obvious.