New Florida Gun Law. "Shoot First"

[JoeyRamone 0]

Florida tourists warned that locals could shoot them

ALASTAIR JAMIESON


IT IS Britain's most popular transatlantic holiday destination, attracting more than 1.5 million visitors a year with its sun-drenched beaches, theme parks and wildlife.

But Florida's £30 billion tourism industry is under threat from a campaign launched by a gun-control group which warns visitors they could be killed.


A series of alarming adverts, to be placed in British newspapers, warns potential tourists about a new law allowing gun owners to shoot anyone they believe threatens their safety.

It means thousands of British families who travel to the Sunshine State are now caught up in the ongoing political row over gun control in the United States.

The Florida law, supported by the National Rifle Association, was approved by the state legislature in April.

The state's governor, Jeb Bush - whose brother is the US president - described it as a "good, commonsense, anti-crime issue".

Critics call it the "shoot first" law and say it allows gun owners to shoot if they engage in a simple argument in public. Supporters call it the "stand your ground" law and say criminals will think twice before attacking someone.

Previously, gun owners could only use their weapons if they first attempted to withdraw and avoid a confrontation, and were permitted to shoot threatening individuals only inside their home or property.

Now they can use "deadly force" if they "reasonably believe" that firing their gun is necessary to prevent a crime or serious injury. The law also effectively prevents civil legal action by victims of such shootings.

The Brady Campaign to Control Gun Violence, based in Washington DC, has pledged to "educate" tourists by placing adverts in US cities, and in key overseas markets such as Britain.

"Warning: Florida residents can use deadly force," says one of the adverts. Another reads: "Thinking about a Florida vacation? Please ensure your family is safe. In Florida, avoid disputes. Use special caution in arguing with motorists on Florida roads."

The Brady Campaign - named after Jim Brady, the spokesman for Ronald Reagan who was paralysed by a gunshot during the 1981 assassination attempt on the then-president - promises to also run adverts in French, German and Japanese newspapers. The campaign officers also plan to hand out leaflets on roads leading into the state.

Peter Hamm, the communications director of the Brady Campaign, said: "It's a particular risk faced by travellers coming to Florida for a vacation because they have no idea it's going to be the law of the land. If they get into a road rage argument, the other person may feel he has the right to use deadly force."

Tourism officials in Florida are furious at the move. Bud Nocera, the executive director of Visit Florida, said: "It is sad that such an organisation would hold the 900,000 men and women who work in the Florida tourism industry, and whose lives depend on it, hostage to their political agenda."

The Association of British Travel Agents yesterday said the posters were "a matter of concern", but said there was unlikely to be a drop in the number of visitors to Florida.

It said 1.4 million Britons made the journey last year, attracted by the weather and resorts such as Disneyworld and the Kennedy Space Centre.

A spokeswoman said: "We would offer the same advice about Florida as we would any other part of the United States. As far as we are concerned, nothing has changed."

More than 80 million tourists from around the world visited Florida last year, boosting an industry that accounts for one-fifth of the state economy


I have a feeling a lot of people will be getting killed for no reason...

[mr2mk1g 10]

Ironically enough, the proposed new Floridian law will make their self defence laws more like those found in Britain, not less. The only difference is the prevalence of firearms in the two countries... something which the proposed law has no direct effect on. It's a slightly odd logic if you ask me.

[justinb138 0]

That article puts a pretty good spin on what the law actually is.

[StreetScooby 5]

Soccer holigans beware. There is something righteous about that.

We are all engines of karma

[Mikki_ZH 0]

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Soccer holigans beware. There is something righteous about that.

Or bring your own gun. This law can also be applied by tourists!
"What are we going to do next vacation? Let’s go to Florida and play Wild West. We rent a car and if someone tries to steal our parking lot we shoot him. Sounds like fun..."

Hardcore adventure tourists have now a choice. They can either go to Baghdad or Miami!!

Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

[mr2mk1g 10]

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They can either go to Baghdad or Miami!!

Same kind of extreme adventure... but the chicks are hotter in Miami.

[Darius11 12]

I don’t know what this law is if you have a corrected nonspine version of it I would love to read about it.


I am all for the right to bare arms, but if this is true it is a recipe for disaster.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[justinb138 0]

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I don’t know what this law is if you have a corrected nonspine version of it I would love to read about it.


I am all for the right to bare arms, but if this is true it is a recipe for disaster.

I'll search for the info on it later today if things here at the office slow down.

[Anvilbrother 0]

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CRITICS call it the "shoot first" law and say it allows gun owners to shoot if they engage in a simple argument in public

Bull Shit. If somone walked up to me and loudly said I bumped into them, and I immediatly shot them in the head I would be in shit creek.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[justinb138 0]

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CRITICS call it the "shoot first" law and say it allows gun owners to shoot if they engage in a simple argument in public

Bull Shit. If somone walked up to me and loudly said I bumped into them, and I immediatly shot them in the head I would be in shit creek.

Agreed, but this story is trying to convince people that nothing would be done.

My basic understanding of the law is that it allows someone to defend themself (with a gun) in public if someone's trying to kill then w/o having to first try to escape.

[mr2mk1g 10]

That has been my understanding of the law also. As such it brings Florida law in line with those found in the UK... so as I said, the Brady Campaign tactics seem a little odd to say the least.

[Anvilbrother 0]

You shouldn't have to "try to escape" If it is a real threat, i.e. knife to your face, or your getting beat up, you shouldn't have to try to run away, then have them catch up to you the second time and start stabbing you and beating you down again just to "satisfy" the conditions of the law that you "tried to escape" in order to shoot the bastard.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[diverborg 0]

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My basic understanding of the law is that it allows someone to defend themself (with a gun) in public if someone's trying to kill then w/o having to first try to escape.

I don't understand how this is different from any other gun law in a state that allows a concealed weapon permits. If someone pulls a gun on me, do I really have to try and run and wait for him to shoot at me before I can shoot back. WTF? I don't know why this would be an issue anywhere, Florida has just decided to get specific on it probably because of a recent case (not sure though). Pretty sad when gc advocates gotta use their deceitful propaganda to further their agenda at other people's expense. This makes me wonder what the hell is wrong with this country that we even have to clarify this law. If someone tries to kill you, kill them first if you can, otherwise too bad, so sad, your dead.

[justinb138 0]

What sickens me is the anti-gun people are trying to destroy the Florida tourism industry to help further their agenda, and using false and misleading information to do it.

[StreetScooby 5]

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You shouldn't have to "try to escape"...

Absolutely agreed.

Here in Westchester County, New York (just north of NYC), if someone breaks into my home I must first try to escape. Only if I can't escape can I shoot them. I'm not allowed to use buckshot, or my Dad's 9MM. Getting a pistol permit here is very difficult.

If someone does indeed break into my house, they're not going to escape. I'm still trying to figure out what the cops are going to do to me. It should help that there's only going to be one witness

We are all engines of karma

[Mikki_ZH 0]

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What sickens me is the anti-gun people are trying to destroy the Florida tourism industry to help further their agenda, and using false and misleading information to do it.

I don't think it's to destroy the tourism industry. You have to understand that these kind o laws are difficult to understand for people coming from non violent cultures. Where to draw the line? What is a threat? Do I find myself in danger if someone yells at me and holds his fist into the air because I stole his parking lot? Does this give me the right to shoot him?
I think it's good that travel agencies tell there customers that you might get shoot if someone in Florida interprets your actions as a threat. What does it help me if a judge afterwards decides that the killing was unjustified?
I will not go to Florida on my next vacations! There are much nicer places in the US, such as Twin Falls or MOAB...

Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

[j0nes 0]

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I'm not allowed to use buckshot, or my Dad's 9MM. Getting a pistol permit here is very difficult.

odd. any idea why that is or what criteria is used?

[Anvilbrother 0]

The shot pattern of the buckshot, and the overpenitration of the 9mm hurting innocent bystanders? It is just a guess on my part.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[justinb138 0]

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I don't think it's to destroy the tourism industry. You have to understand that these kind o laws are difficult to understand for people coming from non violent cultures.

I know, and I think that the anti-gun people in question are trying to take advantage of that to mislead them. If they were being honest the ads would say "If you come here and try to kill someone, they might shoot you."

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Where to draw the line? What is a threat?

The ad campaign doesn't mention it, but I believe the line is "an imminent threat to one's life", as in someone trying to kill you.

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Do I find myself in danger if someone yells at me and holds his fist into the air because I stole his parking lot? Does this give me the right to shoot him?

Nope, but if during the argument he pulled a gun and started shooting at you, it would. Before the law was passed all you could legally do was try to run away and avoid being shot, if I am not mistaken.

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I think it's good that travel agencies tell there customers that you might get shoot if someone in Florida interprets your actions as a threat.

Eh, you can get shot anywhere in the world for that, it's just not legal.

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I will not go to Florida on my next vacations! There are much nicer places in the US, such as Twin Falls or MOAB...

But there's a wind tunnel there!

[Mikki_ZH 0]

But then what's the difference (from the legal side) between Florida and other states?

Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

[mnealtx 0]

One of the main effects of the law is to reduce the number of chances that the criminal gets at you.

Several (too many!) states have a "duty to retreat". This is all well and good in theory, but falls apart in practice:

Criminal breaks in, shoots at you. You run to the dining room. Criminal shoots and misses again. You run to the kitchen. Criminal shoots again. *NOW* you can fight back, because you can retreat no further.

Now the problem is that the criminal is between you and the bedroom, where your weapon (unloaded, with a trigger lock on it) is in the safe.

Now, all you can do is pray that someone heard the ruckus and called 911 and the police get there in time....

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[justinb138 0]

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But then what's the difference (from the legal side) between Florida and other states?

From what I understand:

1. Some states: You can defend yourself against an imminent threat to your life using a gun in both your home and in public. (You don't have to try to get away from your attacker)

2. Some states: You cannot defend yourself against and imminent threat to your life with a gun without first trying to escape. (In both home and public)

3. Some other states (Florida before the new law): You can defend yourself against the threat to your life using a gun without trying to escape in your own home, but not in public.

The laws vary from state to state

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Criminal breaks in, shoots at you. You run to the dining room. Criminal shoots and misses again. You run to the kitchen. Criminal shoots again. *NOW* you can fight back, because you can retreat no further.

Now the problem is that the criminal is between you and the bedroom, where your weapon (unloaded, with a trigger lock on it) is in the safe.

Retreat to the safe.

[StreetScooby 5]

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odd. any idea why that is or what criteria is used?

Don't know why this is so. They have a very different attitude towards guns in Westchester county. I don't believe the rest of New York State is as bad.

We are all engines of karma

[kelpdiver 2]

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Same kind of extreme adventure... but the chicks are hotter in Miami.

That's just a matter of dress codes.

I'd like to see Bush invoke the Patriot Act against the Brady Campaign for economic terrorism and send them down to Cuba. They used to be content just to let people die rather than be able to use self defense. Now they're trying to unemploy the people in the service economy (iow, mostly poor people). What magnificent bastards!