No torture found at GITMO

[storm1977 0]

A while back some liberals on this site weret alking about abuse and toture at GITMO. Some simply made things up, some said it was "Well documented" etc....

Below buried in this article you will see what investigators found after over one year... "An investigating officer, however, found no evidence of abuse by the guards."

But of course many here won't believe that.
Many too will simply change the subject away from what this post is intended for ... Claims of torture at GITMO.

So, what say you now?

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By BEN FOX, Associated Press Writer Tue Sep 13, 5:30 PM ET
SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico - A U.S. inquiry into alleged abuse at Guantanamo uncovered a climate of deep distrust between military police and interrogators, who were accused during the probe of giving terror suspects personal information about their guards.
The MPs suspected interrogators gave their names and

Social Security numbers to prisoners in exchange for intelligence, according to the investigation, which recommended that a senior interrogator be relieved of duty for "failure to know his enemy."

The interrogator "sees himself as a hero for the detainees, and against the MPs, on a crusade in the battle of the MPs against the detainees," one investigator wrote in the report on the inquiry that The Associated Press obtained under a Freedom of Information lawsuit.
The report recommended military authorities look further into the disclosure of MP information to detainees. Guantanamo officials didn't respond to repeated questions about the investigation, including whether the interrogator — a military officer — was relieved of duty or whether the prison camp instituted any reforms in response to the findings.
The investigation began in March 2004, when the same interrogator claimed military police had abused detainees at the high-security camp in eastern Cuba, where the United States holds about 500 men captured in its war on terror.
The interrogator claimed that guards mistreated a suspected al-Qaida member by not allowing him to use the bathroom immediately after a five-hour interrogation and that at other times withheld food and turned the temperature down on a cell to 52 degrees as punishment.
An investigating officer, however, found no evidence of abuse by the guards.
The investigator faulted the interrogator instead — recommending he be relieved of his duties for reasons that included a "failure to know his enemy," the "unfounded" allegations against the guards and "the noted possibility that he suffers from Reverse Stockholm Syndrome."
Stockholm Syndrome is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages develop a bond with their captors. The most often-cited example is the heiress Patty Hearst who helped rob banks with the radicals who kidnapped her in 1974.
The MPs said in sworn statements that they suspected interrogators may have been trading the names and Social Security numbers of guards to get intelligence in return.
"I believe that some of the interrogators would do whatever it takes to gather that, including giving out some MP's personal information," said a guard from the 258th Military Police company who said he was concerned because some detainees had a "deep hatred" for him.
The investigator, after talking to guards, said: "All expressed concerns for the secrecy of their personal information and the safety of their families."
The situation was so bad that an investigator said two guards were "petrified" of disclosing their name, rank and Social Security numbers on Privacy Act statements during the probe.
"They both pushed away from the table with a look of horror on their faces and told the investigating officers that this information was provided to the detainees by the interrogators," the military investigator wrote.
The MPs said personal property of detainees that had been confiscated was sometimes returned to prisoners with the Privacy Act statements of guards who handled the belongings. The detainees told the guards that it was interrogators who gave them the documents.
Nearly 100 detainees have been released since the investigation, but it's unknown if any of those who have been freed had received information about the guards.
At Guantanamo, allegations of inappropriate ties between the largely Muslim detainees and their military and civilian handlers have surfaced before.
Troops had alleged that Ahmad I. al-Halabi, an Arabic translator for the Air Force who was convicted last year of mishandling documents at the base, and Army Capt. James Yee, a Muslim chaplain who was cleared of espionage charges, had also sympathized with detainees.
Suspicion of Muslim personnel by non-Muslims wasn't uncommon, said Donald Rehkopf Jr., the lawyer for al-Halabi, who had more serious espionage charges dropped in a plea deal.
"There was a lot of conflict between the Muslim linguists and the cadre of MPs down there," he told the AP. "It was a total lack of cultural awareness."
It isn't known whether the March 2004 probe involved a Muslim interrogator. Military censors blacked out names and other identifying details in the report. He was described as a regional team chief in charge of interrogators handling detainees from an undisclosed part of the world.
In his sworn statement, the interrogator alleged that it was the guards who allowed detainees to overhear sensitive information. He also said he was told MPs had conducted an "unauthorized cell search" at midnight and "openly talk" about harassing detainees.
"The majority of the ... personnel, especially the reservists, are consummate professionals," the interrogator said. "Those few that dispense information (even inadvertently), who harass detainees, and act in an altogether unprofessional manner, undermine the mission ... and do a disservice to those who work hard to do a good job."
The investigator, though, sided with the MPs and developed a harsh opinion of the interrogator, calling him immature and "driven by ego," according to the report.

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Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[Darius11 12]

So your telling me the photos were photo shopped?



Last I checked it was agents the Geneva Convention to display POW and embarrass them did that not happen either?

Or did the POWs want to be stacked in pyramids with dirty underwear on their face?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

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"I believe that some of the interrogators would do whatever it takes to gather that, including giving out some MP's personal information,"

Lets see what do you get out this statement?
That they would not use torture or that they would do whatever it takes?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[jdhill 0]

Gitmo v. Abu Ghraib... and as for the photos from Abu Ghraib, they were not "displayed" by the government, they were obtained by the media and released... I'm in no way excusing the behavior...

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[j0nes 0]

it's really too bad that torture isn't used there. afterall, it is a very effective means of getting information from those bastards.

right now those guys get three meals a day, a roof over their head, and a chance to worship as they see fit. this is a hell of a lot better treatment than any U.S. soldier taken as a P.O.W. could expect if captured by enemy forces in Iraq or Afghanistan.

[mnealtx 0]

While it's true that the prisoners are receiving better treatment than a non-Muslim would receive from them, what would it say about us if we treated them like that?

It would make no difference, since to die as a martyr is a goal to be achieved for them. It would also vilify us in the eyes of the world FAR worse than anything being said now.

It would also serve to unite further Muslim sentiment against us...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[bodypilot90 0]

where's the lefties??????

[SudsyFist 0]

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it's really too bad that torture isn't used there. afterall, it is a very effective means of getting information from those bastards.

Says who? On what factual information do you base that claim?

[Darius11 12]

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it's really too bad that torture isn't used there. afterall, it is a very effective means of getting information from those bastards.

right now those guys get three meals a day, a roof over their head, and a chance to worship as they see fit. this is a hell of a lot better treatment than any U.S. soldier taken as a P.O.W. could expect if captured by enemy forces in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Oh don’t worry about that. The CIA is using their airplanes to send people to other countries where they can torture them as much as they wish.

They hate us because we are free I tell you.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Frenchy68 0]

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While it's true that the prisoners are receiving better treatment than a non-Muslim would receive from them, what would it say about us if we treated them like that?

It would make no difference, since to die as a martyr is a goal to be achieved for them. It would also vilify us in the eyes of the world FAR worse than anything being said now.

It would also serve to unite further Muslim sentiment against us...

Exactly.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[mnealtx 0]

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it's really too bad that torture isn't used there. afterall, it is a very effective means of getting information from those bastards.

right now those guys get three meals a day, a roof over their head, and a chance to worship as they see fit. this is a hell of a lot better treatment than any U.S. soldier taken as a P.O.W. could expect if captured by enemy forces in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Oh don’t worry about that. The CIA is using their airplanes to send people to other countries where they can torture them as much as they wish.

They hate us because we are free I tell you.

Can you provide a cite for that, Darius? I'd not heard anything about that.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Darius11 12]

Sure I will see if I can find it for you Mike.

I think Dateline did a whole peace on it as well.
I could be wrong about the dateline part some news shows but I will see if I can find you a link.

It was a few months back.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

It was 60 Min.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/04/60minutes/main678155.shtml

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[mnealtx 0]

Thanks - I'll check it out.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SudsyFist 0]

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Below buried in this article you will see what investigators found after over one year... "An investigating officer, however, found no evidence of abuse by the guards."

Rereading the article, it sounds to me like this investigation was focused and specific to allegations brought forth by a single interrogator. If that's the case, then the above conclusion pertains only to those specific allegations, and not to GITMO's operations in general.

Note that when allegations like these are made, they must be very specific. "They do this sorta thing all the time," does not prompt an investigation. Dates and times and participants in specific incidents are detailed and investigated. If evidence is found that the incidents did, in fact, take place and that there is potential for there to be a trend, then the investigation usually continues in that direction.

Is this the case here, or was this particular investigation comprehensive? Anyone? Bueller?

[storm1977 0]

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Quote

Below buried in this article you will see what investigators found after over one year... "An investigating officer, however, found no evidence of abuse by the guards."

Rereading the article, it sounds to me like this investigation was focused and specific to allegations brought forth by a single interrogator. If that's the case, then the above conclusion pertains only to those specific allegations, and not to GITMO's operations in general.

Note that when allegations like these are made, they must be very specific. "They do this sorta thing all the time," does not prompt an investigation. Dates and times and participants in specific incidents are detailed and investigated. If evidence is found that the incidents did, in fact, take place and that there is potential for there to be a trend, then the investigation usually continues in that direction.

Is this the case here, or was this particular investigation comprehensive? Anyone? Bueller?

Simply read the FIrst line of the article:
A U.S. inquiry into alleged abuse at Guantanamo uncovered a climate of deep distrust between military police and interrogators

It was an inquire into alleged abuse by (PLURAL) Interrogators.
The article does go on to describe wha tthey found out about a few specific ones, but the investigation dates back to March 04 after abuse claims were made.

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[SudsyFist 0]

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Simply read the FIrst line of the article:
A U.S. inquiry into alleged abuse at Guantanamo uncovered a climate of deep distrust between military police and interrogators

It was an inquire into alleged abuse by (PLURAL) Interrogators.

No, the first line reads that it was an inquiry into alleged abuse, and that this inquiry uncovered an issue between MP's and interrogators.

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The article does go on to describe wha tthey found out about a few specific ones, but the investigation dates back to March 04 after abuse claims were made.

Reading further, it shows that the inquiry had nothing to do with alleged abuse by interrogators; rather, it was into alleged abuse by the MP's/guards, as reported by a particular interrogator:

Quote

The investigation began in March 2004, when the same interrogator claimed military police had abused detainees at the high-security camp in eastern Cuba, where the United States holds about 500 men captured in its war on terror.

The interrogator claimed that guards mistreated a suspected al-Qaida member by not allowing him to use the bathroom immediately after a five-hour interrogation and that at other times withheld food and turned the temperature down on a cell to 52 degrees as punishment.

An investigating officer, however, found no evidence of abuse by the guards.

This article is about issues between MP's and interrogators which were uncovered during an inquiry, an inquiry into specific allegations of abuse by MP's as reported by a specific interrogator. Among the inquiry's findings and recommendations were the following:

1. "MPs suspected interrogators gave their names and Social Security numbers to prisoners in exchange for intelligence"
2. The "interrogator [is recommended to] be relieved of duty for 'failure to know his enemy.'"
3. "no evidence of abuse by the guards"

To take that last statement and post a thread entitled, "No torture found at GITMO," is either deliberately misleading, or the result of simply misunderstanding the content of the article.

With my struggling to be more optimistic on these sorts of issues, I'll assume the latter. But English *is* my second language, so it might just be my own lack of comprehension.

EDIT: Spelling correction.

[storm1977 0]

Question.... After allegations of abuse by MPs and Gaurds at GITMO were put forth by an interegator, an investigation into those claims of abuse was initiated...

Am I right so far?

That investigation found what?
a) they were abusing/torturing prisioners
or
b) The allagations of abuses were untrue

I think it is a pretty straight forward article.
THey went there to investigate allegations of abuse
by guards and MPs. WHat they found instead was
an interogator who was trying to befriend the enemy and betray his own men.
Which further leads to the conclusion that the stories of abuse were false....
Instead you have a single interogator causing all the problems.

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[SudsyFist 0]

I agree with you! In this particular case I'd say you're right on the money (provided that the article accurately represented report, and that the report accurately represented the investigation, and the investigation discovered the facts ).

As for all other cases of alleged abuse/torture at GITMO, I s'pose the jury's still out.

My issue here was with the generalization. Picture someone's making a post entitled, "No corruption found in the DNC," in reference to the outcome of an investigation of a single corruption case, at a time when corruption allegations are numerous. That's all I was trying to clarify -- seems we're on the same page now.

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[crozby 0]

It is a fact your nation abuses Iraqi prisoners.

It is a fact your nation abuses American prisoners.

Why the crap wouldn't your nation abuse gitmo prisoners?

[mnealtx 0]

So, was this just a typical whinge, or do you actually have something to contribute to the thread?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SkyDekker 1,150]

yup in that one particular case in a roundabout way they found that for this acse there was no abuse...

So, how about all the other cases?