Hey, Bush Bashers (Hurricane)

[tso-d_chris 0]

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These people had many years prior to this disaster in which to do something about being black and poor.

That is one of the most racist posts of seen, even in SC.

Do you really believe people are poor by choice? Or that they choose the color of their skin? Hell even the idea of equal opportunity to escape poverty is laughable at best.

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Or anything to give a pass to local administration's screw ups?

I doubt you could link to a single post claiming local and state gov'ts handled everything properly. But you can post rhetoric blindly supporting the federal government in spite of their obvious failures in this situation.

Don't get me wrong, I fully support your right to free speech. But it would be nice if your attacks on the left were even remotely justified.

[kallend 1,679]

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These people had many years prior to this disaster in which to do something about being black and poor.

That is one of the most racist posts of seen, even in SC.

Do you really believe people are poor by choice? Or that they choose the color of their skin? Hell even the idea of equal opportunity to escape poverty is laughable at best.

I think he omitted the sarcasm icon.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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Or anything to give a pass to local administration's screw ups?

I doubt you could link to a single post claiming local and state gov'ts handled everything properly. But you can post rhetoric blindly supporting the federal government in spite of their obvious failures in this situation.

Don't get me wrong, I fully support your right to free speech. But it would be nice if your attacks on the left were even remotely justified.

That is in response to Kallend's post blaming it all on FEMA.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[tso-d_chris 0]

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I think he omitted the sarcasm icon.

Ahh. Sometimes it is hard to notice sarcasm in print.

Crozby: If that's the case, I apologize.

[tso-d_chris 0]

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That is in response to Kallend's post blaming it all on FEMA.

Reread his post. He didn't say FEMA was exclusively to blame, as you imply he did.

[kallend 1,679]

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Or anything to give a pass to local administration's screw ups?

I doubt you could link to a single post claiming local and state gov'ts handled everything properly. But you can post rhetoric blindly supporting the federal government in spite of their obvious failures in this situation.

Don't get me wrong, I fully support your right to free speech. But it would be nice if your attacks on the left were even remotely justified.

That is in response to Kallend's post blaming it all on FEMA.

Maybe you'll give a link to the post where I blamed it ALL on FEMA.

I certainly hold Federal agencies with their hands in our pockets and an explicit mandate to deal with disasters "of national significance" to a higher standard of performance than poor untrained people with no significant resources at their disposal.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[shropshire 0]

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These people had many years prior to this disaster in which to do something about being black and poor.
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That is one of the most racist posts of seen, even in SC.

I'm sure that he didn't mean it ... I suspect that he was commenting upon something that he thought he read in my post .... which also wasn't there..

I guess that we all need to read better and guess less

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[mnealtx 0]

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Or anything to give a pass to local administration's screw ups?

I doubt you could link to a single post claiming local and state gov'ts handled everything properly. But you can post rhetoric blindly supporting the federal government in spite of their obvious failures in this situation.

Don't get me wrong, I fully support your right to free speech. But it would be nice if your attacks on the left were even remotely justified.

That is in response to Kallend's post blaming it all on FEMA.

Maybe you'll give a link to the post where I blamed it ALL on FEMA.

I certainly hold Federal agencies with their hands in our pockets and an explicit mandate to deal with disasters "of national significance" to a higher standard of performance than poor untrained people with no significant resources at their disposal.

Perhaps a poor choice of words on my part - since you did not make an explicit statement saying it was all FEMA's fault.

I do find it interesting how you keep trying to shift any blame off the city/state governments, though - especially given information on how FEMA handles disasters (accentuation mine):

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THE DECLARATION PROCESS

The Stafford Act (§401) requires that: "All requests for a declaration by the President that a major disaster exists shall be made by the Governor of the affected State." A State also includes the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands. The Marshall Islands and the Federated States of Micronesia are also eligible to request a declaration and receive assistance.

The Governor's request is made through the regional FEMA/EPR office. State and Federal officials conduct a preliminary damage assessment (PDA) to estimate the extent of the disaster and its impact on individuals and public facilities. This information is included in the Governor's request to show that the disaster is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and the local governments and that Federal assistance is necessary. Normally, the PDA is completed prior to the submission of the Governor's request. However, when an obviously severe or catastrophic event occurs, the Governor's request may be submitted prior to the PDA. Nonetheless, the Governor must still make the request.

As part of the request, the Governor must take appropriate action under State law and direct execution of the State's emergency plan. The Governor shall furnish information on the nature and amount of State and local resources that have been or will be committed to alleviating the results of the disaster, provide an estimate of the amount and severity of damage and the impact on the private and public sector, and provide an estimate of the type and amount of assistance needed under the Stafford Act. In addition, the Governor will need to certify that, for the current disaster, State and local government obligations and expenditures (of which State commitments must be a significant proportion) will comply with all applicable cost-sharing requirements.

Based on the Governor's request, the President may declare that a major disaster or emergency exists, thus activating an array of Federal programs to assist in the response and recovery effort.

So, now that you KNOW (and knowing is half the battle).... still care to say that the main fault was with FEMA?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[nate_1979 9]

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As usual (in ths forum at least) there's only black or white - (no shades of grey) - you can continue to argue 'till you're blue in the face but you'll not convince some people that these poor old dears were not entirely to blame for their own welfare.

Hey but good luck trying mate.

Your right, there is a shade of gray... It is an absolute SHAME that those "poor old dears" were not evacuated.. It makes me sick to think that people really were stuck there. There are some people that you just cant expect to do anything for themselves, because they are disabled / beyond their prime / whatever ....

I do however have no sympathy for those who dont fall into that catagory.

I also believe that the local gov't should be looked at VERY HARD as to why those people that needed help did not get it, before the storm hit. The federal Gov't needs to look at why they didnt / couldnt get in after the storm hit as well.

Plenty of gray area here..

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[shropshire 0]

Thanks.

In my opinion, those at most risk (irrespective of socio-economics) should have been treated with max' priority... this ought to be common sense, but it got past some people.

Regards,

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[tso-d_chris 0]

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So, now that you KNOW (and knowing is half the battle).... still care to say that the main fault was with FEMA?

Yes. They still screwed up. Well over 24 hrs (LA governor's delay) there was still a need for much more federal help in LA and Mississppi.

Again, no one has said FEMA is exclusively to blame. But they dropped the ball.

[mnealtx 0]

They very well may have - when did the disaster requests from the respective state governors go in, since FEMA can't act without it?

Your logic still escapes me though:

State did not activate emergency plan (required by law)

Governor did not make timely request for assistance (required by law before FEMA can legally go in)

And you can STILL say the main fault was FEMA's? Abso-fucking-lutely AMAZING.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[tso-d_chris 0]

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They very well may have - when did the disaster requests from the respective state governors go in?

Not sure, but on Thursday and Friday, as I was driving halfway across the country, listening to various newsstgations, the single common thread was that civilians were still in danger.

The head of FEMA repeatedly told an NPR reporter that there were no confirmation of people in need of help at the NO Convention Center, despite the fact there was a live feed from the CC soundly confirming that very fact.

Mississippi citizens were wondering when the might receive badly needed assistance.

Troop count on the ground was very low still, at that point, several days after Katrina. The governor of LA may have wasted 24 hours, but FEMA wasted far more time than that.

That doesn't justify the LA governor's delay. But it was a huge mistake on FEMA's part.

[rushmc 18]

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I expect a higher standard of performance from a Federal agency charged with emergency management than from a retired granny with no car. I guess you don't.

I expect a higher standard of performance from a Federal agency head sitting comfortably in his office than from a city mayor operating in a disaster area with no power and almost no communications capability. I guess you don't.

I expect a higher standard of performance from a Federal agency head sitting comfortably in his office than from a state governor operating from a state capital in the throes of a hurricane with power lines down all around and 150mph winds blowing and torrential rains falling. I guess you don't.

Anything to give a pass to this administration's screw-ups.

In short, let the government take care of the people. that way they will do what you want when you want because they are dependant on government. That way the govenment liberal elites (who don't trust the peoples to vote the correct way) will not have to worry..Because we all know they know better than the people

The mayor and governor are the ones that fucked up here!!!! Not the federal agencies. Could the feds done better? Ya, probably but they are not the ones to blame for the deaths

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[blueskybug 0]

while i usually prefer to just lurk....
i seem to recall there was a plan agreed to by the mayor 13 month ago. it did have in it several good things that were supposed to happen but never did. a little research from someone on the topic may help. it seems to me that all the finger pointing is really a moot point unless you have an agenda or just prefer to stir the pot a bit.
Also, professor Kallend please don't take this as a personal reply to only yourself. I value your opinion and while i don't usually agree i find it thought provoking most times. i guess the bottom line is there were several screw ups and preventing the same mistakes from happening is good, but blame for the sake of politics is distasteful....would you not agree ?
blues
Vince

[GTAVercetti 0]

Here is an interesting timeline. I have only glanced over it (I am tired and want to go to sleep) so please correct where it is wrong, but it seems a "State of Emergency" was asked for by the State BEFORE the levee broke:

http://www.thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline

And yes, the site is Bush bashing (and feel free to correct if it says he was doing something he was not). Please ignore that and focus on the fact that on Saturday, the governor asked for a Declaration of Emergency and yet FEMA slacked off.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[kallend 1,679]

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I expect a higher standard of performance from a Federal agency charged with emergency management than from a retired granny with no car. I guess you don't.

I expect a higher standard of performance from a Federal agency head sitting comfortably in his office than from a city mayor operating in a disaster area with no power and almost no communications capability. I guess you don't.

I expect a higher standard of performance from a Federal agency head sitting comfortably in his office than from a state governor operating from a state capital in the throes of a hurricane with power lines down all around and 150mph winds blowing and torrential rains falling. I guess you don't.

Anything to give a pass to this administration's screw-ups.

In short, let the government take care of the people. that way they will do what you want when you want because they are dependant on government. That way the govenment liberal elites (who don't trust the peoples to vote the correct way) will not have to worry..Because we all know they know better than the people

The mayor and governor are the ones that fucked up here!!!! Not the federal agencies. Could the feds done better? Ya, probably but they are not the ones to blame for the deaths

So why didn't Bush disband FEMA instead of emasculating it and putting a crony at its head?

As long as we're paying for it, why shouldn't we expect it to perform?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[slug 1]

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So why didn't Bush disband FEMA instead of emasculating it and putting a crony at its head?

As long as we're paying for it, why shouldn't we expect it to perform?

Hi John

Unrealistic expectations

BTW don't even think about not payng. The price just went up

R.I.P.

[crozby 0]

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I'm sure that he didn't mean it ... I suspect that he was commenting upon something that he thought he read in my post .... which also wasn't there..

I assumed you were a Brit from your user id. You said to someone that they'd never convince some people here that these people were not to blme for their situation, so i came back tongue in cheek like one of those republicans err, i mean people.

Oh well. Mr2mk1g said it much better with his Cartman impression anyhow.

[shropshire 0]

Thanks for the reply - No probs mate.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome