making personal bio-diesel

[Steel 0]

How hard is it really to do this? Is it cost effective? Is it legal to do you a back yard in the suburbs?

I honestly couldn't give a rats ass about all the environmental propaganda. But paying over $2.50 a gallon, I find offensive. And being able to say, "screw you, I don't need your oil" to the Middle East sounds great to me. So who knows how long it will take to set this up and how much it will cost? For that matter where I will get the needed materials?
Cheers,

.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[tso-d_chris 0]

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How hard is it really to do this? Is it cost effective? Is it legal to do you a back yard in the suburbs?

I have a friend that uses used cooking oil from a local restaurant in his diesel Mercedes.

I know the diesel was designed to run on vegetable oil, so that farmers could grow their own fuel.

I remember reading somewhere that there is a difference in ese of changing to 100% biodiesel between direct and indirect injection engines. On one of them it is supposed to be as simple as just switching fuel. The other requires a small bit of prep work. I don't remember which is the easier kind of injection to make the switch with.

Good luck.

[AlexCrowley 0]

http://www.greasel.com/

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[billvon 2,446]

>I remember reading somewhere that there is a difference in ese
>of changing to 100% biodiesel between direct and indirect injection
> engines. On one of them it is supposed to be as simple as just
> switching fuel.

There are two ways to do it. One is to make true biodiesel. You do this by getting used oil, then adding sodium methoxide (basically lye plus methanol) and stirring. You end up with biodiesel and glycerin. You skim off the biodiesel, and it can then be used in any diesel vehicle the same way you would petroleum based diesel.

The second is straight vegetable oil (SVO.) This is the one that requires a few mods to your car. Basically you have to heat the oil to about 80C, and that means heating the tank and having a second heater just before the injectors. It also means having a second "startup" tank of either regular diesel or biodiesel to start and stop the car with. The advantage here is that you don't have to do any chemistry; you just filter the oil to remove the chunks and use it directly.

[rhino 0]

How do you do it with Vegetable oil?

[billvon 2,446]

>How do you do it with Vegetable oil?

One of those two ways. Either mod your car to heat the oil and use it directly, or turn it into biodiesel by adding sodium methoxide.

[SpeedRacer 1]

been thinking about the environmental issue. the argument for biodiesel is that all the carbon atoms that will be oxidized into CO2 are just the same carbon atoms that the plants took up out of the air in the first place, so that there is no net increase in greenhouse gases.

whereas with fossil fuels, you're taking carbon that was previously trapped in the ground & putting it up in the air.

Problem is: Normally the used vegetable oil would have been put in the ground, in a landfill. Now you're taking that carbon and putting it back up in the air. So really there IS still a net increase in CO2 that would normally have wound up in the ground.

Speed Racer
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[billvon 2,446]

>Normally the used vegetable oil would have been put in the ground, in a landfill.

And would have been broken down by aerobic bacteria into CO2 (greenhouse gas) or by anaerobic bacteria to methane (even more greenhouse gas.) Most landfills are vented to prevent dangerous buildup of gases. To really sequester it you'd have to put it somewhere where you could guarantee it would get buried and packed under more and more layers of dirt/rock, like near a volcano or in a riverbed. Then in 10 million years, you'd have methane and oil when you drill down to it.

[rhino 0]

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Either mod your car to heat the oil and use it directly

Just oil? Or oil and lie?

[rehmwa 2]

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>aerobic bacteria

the mental picture here is funny - you know

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,446]

>Just oil? Or oil and lie?

If you put the mods in your car you can use the oil directly with no lye or methanol. Just take the used oil, filter out the crud and pour it into the tank. For info on how:

http://www.greasecar.com/index.cfm

[rhino 0]

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If you put the mods in your car you can use the oil directly with no lye or methanol. Just take the used oil, filter out the crud and pour it into the tank.

Thats crazy, stupid easy.. We could be the richest vegetable oil producing nation on the planet.. All our farmers could be millionaires. !!

[TheAnvil 0]

Biodiesel is good stuff. I've always been a proponent of it, but never a user. Maybe I should get off of my ass and do it myself.

Here's a link for you.

http://www.biodieselamerica.org

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[tso-d_chris 0]

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One of those two ways. Either mod your car to heat the oil and use it directly, or turn it into biodiesel by adding sodium methoxide.

Do you know how the two methods compare with respect to mpg or pollution?

[billvon 2,446]

>Do you know how the two methods compare with respect to mpg or pollution?

I don't, actually. Biodiesel is cleaner than regular diesel, but I don't know how SVO compares. I _think_ SVO (straight veg oil) is a little lower in energy than either biodiesel or regular diesel, thus lower MPG.

[TheAnvil 0]

I think I read the same thing somewhere Bill. Cannot recall where.

I like biodiesel.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[AlexCrowley 0]

The greasel.com site claims comparable MPG and performance between cooking oil and diesel.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[Trae 1]

kerazy idea ..... Diesel oil skydiving farm.

Skydivers work in the fields producing bio-diesel.
Aircraft use bio-diesel engines burning bio-D grown by skyfarmers.
Very cheap bio-diesel skydiving.

the future smells like cotton-oil.................you wanna skydive ?? you bring your own bio-diesel!!

[mr2mk1g 10]

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Thats crazy, stupid easy.. We could be the richest vegetable oil producing nation on the planet.. All our farmers could be millionaires. !!

It is isn't it. Wonder why we're not all doing it. Hell Europe pays it's farmers millions each year to "set aside" fields and do nothing with them just so we don't grow too much.

Only conclusion I can come up with is that the powerful oil industry doesn't want us to so they put pressure on the govt not to make it so. Govt.s don't want it to happen either really because it would upset the current norms that put them in power.

Neither of those conclusions are particularly palatable to me... but I can't come up with any better ideas...

although there isn't exactly much of a call for it from the public at large just yet... maybe if people en mass actually start wanting biodiesel there would be money in it and it would happen. Money makes the world go round after all.

[SpeedRacer 1]

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It is isn't it. Wonder why we're not all doing it. Hell Europe pays it's farmers millions each year to "set aside" fields and do nothing with them just so we don't grow too much.

Same happens here in USA

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Only conclusion I can come up with is that the powerful oil industry doesn't want us to so they put pressure on the govt not to make it so. Govt.s don't want it to happen either really because it would upset the current norms that put them in power.

I doubt its anything that organized. The gas pumps are already in place, and people are driving gasoline powered cars & trucks. Its a matter of doing what you've always done, with the infrastructure already in place.

It would take a real concerted effort to put a new infrastructure in place.

People are not buying biodiesel cars because they don't see any biodiesel pumps around. And people are not setting up biodiesel pumps because they don't see any people driving biodiesel vehicles around.

Speed Racer
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[SpeedRacer 1]

I have an oil-heated house. Is there biodiesel home heating oil?

Speed Racer
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[billvon 2,446]

>Wonder why we're not all doing it. Hell Europe pays it's farmers millions . . ..

It's illegal in the UK. They actually have police sniffing tailpipes and giving people tickets. Cooking oil, see, isn't taxed.

[Pendejo 0]

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Problem is: Normally the used vegetable oil would have been put in the ground, in a landfill.

That hasn't been accurate for quite some time.

The "cleaner" used vegetable oil is sold to other businesses. The dirtier Vegetable oil is taken away and used for fuel in places like cement kilns.

Pendejo

He who swoops the ditch and does not get out buys the BEER!!

[Pendejo 0]

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Thats crazy, stupid easy.. We could be the richest vegetable oil producing nation on the planet.. All our farmers could be millionaires. !!

You are correct. Its not quite as easy as it sounds on some of the web sites. We have been running one of our plants on bio-diesel for over 2 years. It costs about $0.45 per gallon to make. This sounds low but when you add in all the taxes we pay on fuel (at the pump) its really not as cheap as it would seem. If you did it on a smaller scale I would recommend going to the local chinese restaurant and speaking to them about getting their used grease (it seems to be a little cleaner than most).

Pendejo

He who swoops the ditch and does not get out buys the BEER!!

[Pendejo 0]

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Only conclusion I can come up with is that the powerful oil industry doesn't want us to so they put pressure on the govt not to make it so. Govt.s don't want it to happen either really because it would upset the current norms that put them in power.

They (oil companies) don't have to put any pressure on anyone. Remember who owns most of the pumps you are pumping from at the filling station. There really aren't that many "mom and pop" stations left. All they have to do is just keep doing what they have been.... Ignore the hell out of it. Willie Nelson (spelling?) markets his own brand but its mostly in truck stops and there aren't very many of them when you compare it to the number of corporate owned (or at least private owned, chain) stations.

Pendejo

He who swoops the ditch and does not get out buys the BEER!!