Gaza pullout

[Casurf1978 0]

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Bingo! Appeasement accomplishes nothing. All the Israelis have done is show the Palestinian terrorists that their tactics are effective. That's the wrong message to send.

It worked for the Israelis back in the late 1940s with the bombing of the King David Hotel, then the Jerusalem Railway Station, followed by the bombing of the The British Officers' Club in Jerusalem. All terrorist acts. The first one being the handy work of Menahem Begin. The end goal, get the Brits out and it worked. Interesting thing that Begin, a terrorist in his youth, became the 6th Israeli PM. He even admitted in an interview that he would bomb the hotel again.

[billvon 2,450]

> At what point do we say they have done enough and shift the blame to the Palestinians?

Most people already do. It hasn't solved the problem. Blame is an emotional response, not a means to a practical answer.

[j0nes 0]

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At what point do we say they have done enough and shift the blame to the Palestinians?

The root of the problem lies in that the Palestinian Authority, with it's duly elected President (Abbas), has no control over the militant groups that are hampering the political process.

It took a VERY long time for Sinn Fein to reign in the IRA, but look at recent events. It happened in Europe, maybe it can happen in the Middle East too.

[beowulf 1]

Why?

The Jews didn't have their own country for a long time. Why did they need one then? If the League of Nations wanted them to have a country of their own then one of those countries should have donated land for them to live on.

[jdhill 0]

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Palestine did exist actually, Im pretty sure it did.

Only as a region, never as a country, kingdom, principality, or other political entity.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[Gravitymaster 0]

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> At what point do we say they have done enough and shift the blame to the Palestinians?

Most people already do. It hasn't solved the problem. Blame is an emotional response, not a means to a practical answer.

Accept responsibility for the continuing violence then.

[j0nes 0]

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Why?

The Jews didn't have their own country for a long time. Why did they need one then? If the League of Nations wanted them to have a country of their own then one of those countries should have donated land for them to live on.

You have to remember that WWI had just ended, land was being divvied up and oil had neither been discovered in the middle east NOR was not in demand (few gasoline engines at the time).

So.... you've got a bunch of people demanding land for a country.... you've got some (at the time) worthless land. 1 + 1 = 2

[shropshire 0]

<> - Europe had been hit hard both by WW1 and the 1917 flu pandemic. I guess (but dont know) that these countries could not support the number of displaced peoples. But it must go deeper than that and there must have been some major political reasons as well...... I guess that someone here will enlighten us......

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[TheAnvil 0]

John, I've had similar thoughts. Were this part of some ploy on the part of Israeli's, it certainly is a good one. Displace thousands of your people in a peace offering. When the peace offering is taken and thrown back in their face with a few homicide bombers killing innocents in shopping malls, Israel would have the perfect reason for declaring all out war against the Palestinians.

Hope that's not the case. I am against appeasement, however.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[shropshire 0]

<>

At the moment, from the information in the news, I dont see this as appeasment, I see it as trying to do the right thing. To put things right that were badly done in the first place. The initial land grab was just plain wrong.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[TheAnvil 0]

Taking land in a war when attacked is wrong? Hmmm...I don't think so. The land being given to the Palestinians was taken in '67 or '68 (I forget which one). Now blowing up oneself hoping to kill as many women and children as possible - that's wrong; supporting such actions even more so. I think rewarding such people who do these things by acquiescing to their demands quite disingenuous, but that's just me.

Had they truly desired peace, they could have had it years ago. Ehud Barak offered Terrorist-in-Chief Yassar Arafat damn near everything he had been demanding at Camp David a few years ago and was turned down outright.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Michele 1]

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The Jews didn't have their own country for a long time. Why did they need one then? If the League of Nations wanted them to have a country of their own then one of those countries should have donated land for them to live on.

While the Balfour Declaration was made in '17, the land of Palestine was assigned to the UK by the League of Nations (the predecessor to the United Nations) as a mandated territory, that included all of what is considered Israel today, as well as Jordan. The Brits were, at the same time, trying to get the Arabs to fight the Ottoman Empire, and so promised them land, as well. Because of all of that, the UK was unable to appease both sides of the coin (the hatred between the Jews and Arabs goes a really long way back...centuries and centuries).

Along came this asshat Hitler, and on his way to dominate the entire world, he kills 6,000,000 Jews. That brought the issue to to fore, but again, because of the animosity between the Arabs and Jews, the UK handed the problem to the United Nations to handle.

The Nation of Israel was not recognized until the declaration was read in the UN, on May 17, 1948, by David ben Gurion, who later became Israel's first prime minister. The declaration was fully supported by Harry S. Truman, the US president at the time.

The Gaza Strip, which is being vacated as we speak (well, read, anyway), was part of an UN mandate of partition in 1947 to become an independent Arab state. In 1948, an Egyptian military encroachment into Gaza (on their way to Tel Aviv...) was stopped by Israeli forces. A ceasefire was established between Egypt and Israel, with the Egyptians remaining in Gaza. Shortly thereafter, thousands of Palestinian refugees inhabited the area, and remained there to this day.

In 1956, during the Suez-Sinai war, Isreal occupied the Gaza strip, but left once international pressure built up.

In 1967, the 6 Day War (June 5-10), where Israel fought on a three-front basis...Syria, Egypt, and Jordan all aggressed into Israel, and Israel battled hard. While it lasted only a few days, the Israelis managed to make it very close to the capitals of all three nations, and thus a cease-fire was acheived...and this time, the Israelis did not leave Gaza Strip, and this time, political pressure was not as strong (as their fears had been borne out).

And it really goes back much farther than "just donate land." The Israeli people were denied a homeland for many centuries, abused and persecuted for centuries. Because of their religious beliefs (and that belief remains significant, strong, and traditional), the place for them was their homeland, "that God promised the land of Abraham to the Jews as their "home,"...which was roughly where Israel exists today.

Do I think the vacation of Gaza is a good thing? Only if it works...and that remains to be seen. It's definitely a touchy issue, and I can see both sides (although I find myself more in line with the Jewish thoughts rather than the Palestinians), and I hope it works.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[JohnRich 4]

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The Jews didn't have their own country for a long time. Why did they need one then? If the League of Nations wanted them to have a country of their own then one of those countries should have donated land for them to live on.

No one had ever tried to exterminate them before. That action by Hitler kind of made it important for them to have their own autonomy, and not be at the mercy of others.

I don't see any of these wealthy Arab nations donating land and oil money for the Palestinians...

[JohnRich 4]

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They're going to attack no matter what. You could settle every area in Israel; they'd attack. You could pull out everywhere; they'd attack. So again, stop basing all your decisions on what the terrorists think and just do what makes the most sense.

If Israel is going to get attacked no matter what they do, then what motivation do they have to give land to the Palestinians? None.

[billvon 2,450]

>If Israel is going to get attacked no matter what they do, then
>what motivation do they have to give land to the Palestinians?

?? Is it your impression that the only reason a government should do something is to react to threats of violence? They may want to better protect their citizens. Or they may feel that it is fair to do so.

[JohnRich 4]

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>If Israel is going to get attacked no matter what they do, then
>what motivation do they have to give land to the Palestinians?

?? Is it your impression that the only reason a government should do something is to react to threats of violence? They may want to better protect their citizens. Or they may feel that it is fair to do so.

Fairness is a good reason. But if that fairness is going to be used against them, using that strategic land to launch strikes on their people, then it ain't fair. The #1 priority is protecting your own.