55,000 adult British Muslims think more terrorist attacks are justified?

[shropshire 0]

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The remaining 95% don't turn them in.

THATS the problem.

That's got to be one on the most ridiculous things I've ever read

Even if the original figure of 5% was accurate, it assumes that that the 95% KNOW who the 5% are...... Do you know everyone else who shares your faith? and which ones of those are criminals? If so, why haven't you turned them in?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Ron 7]

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That's got to be one on the most ridiculous things I've ever read

Whats riduculous is how you claim to hate these nutbags but protect them.

If these nutjobs found that they no longer had support from the community most would stop.

However as it stands now there is a sizeable segment that encourage and even support them.

Until that changes these nutjobs will continue to do what they do.

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Even if the original figure of 5% was accurate, it assumes that that the 95% KNOW who the 5% are

No, it only takes ONE person to turn in a nutjob. and you can't really think NOONE knew what these guys were doing. Someone knew and they encouraged or just sat back thinking it is someone elses problem.

That kind of attitude needs to go away, but people like you will not take responsibility and would rather do nothing.

Doing nothing is easy, but it will not get anything done.

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Do you know everyone else who shares your faith? and which ones of those are criminals? If so, why haven't you turned them in?

If I knew one I would turn them in. Would you do the same? Or would you just do nothing?

Way to many people do nothing or even help.

You want a Jihad? How about you call a jihad against the nutjobs in your own religion and do something about it?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[shropshire 0]

Hi Ron

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Whats riduculous is how you claim to hate these nutbags but protect them??

- So how am I protecting the bombers? I was protecting the >95% complete innocents.

The bombers are scumbag criminals - we have loads of them all of the world.. Killers, murderers etc...
Not too long ago we had Irish bombers (nutjobs) killing innocents in the U.K ... but we didn't blame the complete Irish nation (how daft would that have been?)
Best we go and 'Tap' all of the people who ever met the Oklahoma Bomber.... they must be just as guilty.

My problem with your statement was the indescrimanate way that you appeared to tar All British Muslims with the same brush as the criminal few.
It's not a religeous war it's a bunch of nutters and the rest of the population dont necassarily know who they are before hand - why should they?

P.S As for doing nothing, I travel on the tube most weeks (which , by the way is more than our bleating politicians do!).. These criminals will not stop me going about my business.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Ron 7]

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So how am I protecting the bombers?

By not raising public support to the level that people will inform the police about these nutbags.

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Not too long ago we had Irish bombers (nutjobs) killing innocents in the U.K ... but we didn't blame the complete Irish nation

People on here have blamed the Americans that supported the IRA...Guess what? They were right to do that. Until the really innocent make it so hard for the nutjobs to do bad things...They are not doing enough.

The only way this will end is when the group (Muslim, Christian, Irish....whatever) get so sick of them looking bad due to these assholes that they say "STOP IT!!!"

And yes the group that does nothing is quilty of doing nothing.

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Best we go and 'Tap' all of the people who ever met the Oklahoma Bomber....

Not met, but "knew" him.

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My problem with your statement was the indescrimanate way that you appeared to tar All British Muslims with the same brush as the criminal few.

I Meant ALL MUSLIMS. Until ALL Muslims stand up against thes nutjobs people will support them.

This is the same for ANY group of nutjobs...Race, religion is not important. The only way to end them is for the very group they claim to defend or represent to turn on them.

How much do you think a guy would be willing to do if everyone he knew thought the whole idea was stupid?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[shropshire 0]

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I Meant ALL MUSLIMS. Until ALL Muslims stand up against thes nutjobs people will support them.

This is the same for ANY group of nutjobs...Race, religion is not important. The only way to end them is for the very group they claim to defend or represent to turn on them.

See, now we're almost on the same (ish) wavelength.. except that you actually named the Muslims and I feel that you didn't need to .. ALL PEOPLE would have done the job... singeling out groups is plain wrong IMHO.
Turning this criminal activity into a sectrarian issue does more harm than good.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Ron 7]

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See, now we're almost on the same (ish) wavelength.. except that you actually named the Muslims and I feel that you didn't need to .. ALL PEOPLE would have done the job... singeling out groups is plain wrong

No that is my point...It takes the very people inside the group to step up and end it. It does not matter what group, but it REQUIRES THAT GROUP to say "enough is enough, stop!"

In this case it is Muslims and to be honest that group seems to be the biggest threat right now.

If the KKK had just killed 100 blacks I would say the same damn thing about them.

Members of that group need to sack up and end it...It is the ONLY WAY it will happen.

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Turning this criminal activity into a sectrarian issue does more harm than good.

Like it or not it IS sectrarian...These guys didn't blow up these people to protest, green peace, NAFTA, the Queen or bangers and mash. They did it for RELIGION.

Therefore it wil take others of the same religion to tell them to stop to make it work.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[AlexCrowley 0]

Racism is accepted on this forum as long as it's aimed at arabs and muslims, under the guise of discussing terrorism.

People are very good at making generalizations that they dont have the mental acuity to realize would be read as insulting to anyone who might be part of that race or religion.

None of them will accept that they're racists though. In the US racism is as much a part of life as breathing, most people have an inbred hatred of some - most seem to hate Mexicans for being lazy and dirty - at least thats what I've been told when I ask. Others hate Jews. Each time the person feels totally justified, it's not racism "its what i've experienced". So hearing Americans talk about muslims and arabs and hear the bloodlust and the 'bomb them all' and 'acceptable losses' and 'profile them all' and 'they should police their own'. That last one, its normal, people in the US hear that I'm from the UK and ask if I know their friend Bob who lives in Leeds (yeah, all us Brits know each other).

Racism is a way of life, they dont even see it. The same way they dont see how much fear their is in american society, or the fact that their wars are so anaemic that they just look like teenagers video games. God forbid they'd have to face the blood, piss, shit, limbs, torn and burnt flesh and smoke that a real war brings about. Forget about the fact that the prison scandel here was totally ignored, minimized by a press that shoudl have pushed for the rest of the evidence to be released, evidence that Rumsfield himself said was 'shocking and evil'. Americans dont want to know.

Americans like to be stupid, they love their ignorance. Dont fuck with their fuel prices, their big macs and their fat stomachs, their own money and they'll happily sit there and ignore everything else if you tell them to and give them another hamburger to feed their fat little kids and their fat boring wives. Just dont show them anything real ever. American life is very very small, rarely any larger than just outside of an americans small dreams. Dont challenge their world view. American ideology is as set and strict, and as unwavering as their crazy muslim counterparts. Challenge it and be ignored, insulted or minimized.

What I dont understand is how people in the US haven't worked out that OBL wants a race war. That the entire crux of his actions, every explosion, every murder, every death is to set white against arab.

But that would mean independent thought. easier to believe fairy tales like 'they envy our freedoms' and 'god bless america'.


Generalizations suck, dont they.

Watch the defence step forward, it'll be the following:

1. it's not racism, muslim terrorists are a HUGE (yet amazingly unquantified) threat.
2. Yeah, sure, its all the white guys fault, again.
3. You are politically correct, we're not the bad guys ever.
4. ???????

Face it America, your emotions have caused you to embrace racism and hate and justified it as righteous indignation.

Until you can see that there can never be a rational discussion about the problem because you are blinded by your own prejudices.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[shropshire 0]

My point is that these criminals are only part of one group... the Terrorist party NOT necassarily any Religious one (of any flavour).

It beholds us ALL, all civilised peoples to stand against these or any other criminals. There's nothing special about these thugs, they are not being protected by The People.

They target indescriminately - victims in London, for example, came from a number of different ethnic and religeous groups.

The Muslim faith is NOT intrinsically violent any more that Christians or Jews are. But criminals of all types superficially appear to align themselves to these groups inorder to give themselves some form of credability. Terrorists, by their nature aim to divide Peoples and set one sub group against another - it's what they do.

Saying that the subgroup that the criminals apparently come from should sort the problem out is a cop out.

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Casurf1978 0]

You want a solution, man how much time do you have. I agree we need the help of the Muslim population, not only the general pop but foreign goverments too. The latter being much more important. For example in the case of one or two London bombers they attended extremely religious schools in Pakistan. What do these school teach and are they recruiting grounds for terrorist. If they are what is Pakistan doing about it. What are other nations doing about extreme Islamist movements. For example the CIA said that it has over 4000 extemist Islamist websites that it keeps track off. Why dont we pressure host nations to take them down. I'm just giving you a few examples.

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BTW I don't recall I quoted any statistics about 95% of any religion protecting the extreme fringes of it's population. Perhaps you just got confused?

Yes I did, my apologies.

[Ron 7]

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My point is that these criminals are only part of one group... the Terrorist party NOT necassarily any Religious one (of any flavour).

And my point is THAT group has to make the change.

It does no good if I go to the Terroists and tell them to stop being assholes. If THEIR FAMILY AND FRIENDS tell them, thats different.

If I say it they will claim I "don't know", or am a "puppet of the jews".

If their family and friends turn them in, it sa different story.

The change HAS to come from the group, not outside.

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The Muslim faith is NOT intrinsically violent any more that Christians or Jews are

Did I say they were? But please list the terrorist attacks by Christians or Jews.

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Saying that the subgroup that the criminals apparently come from should sort the problem out is a cop out.

Until the group turns on them....There is no hope of anything else working.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Gravitymaster 0]

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You want a solution, man how much time do you have. I agree we need the help of the Muslim population, not only the general pop but foreign goverments too. The latter being much more important. For example in the case of one or two London bombers they attended extremely religious schools in Pakistan. What do these school teach and are they recruiting grounds for terrorist. If they are what is Pakistan doing about it. What are other nations doing about extreme Islamist movements. For example the CIA said that it has over 4000 extemist Islamist websites that it keeps track off. Why dont we pressure host nations to take them down. I'm just giving you a few examples.

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BTW I don't recall I quoted any statistics about 95% of any religion protecting the extreme fringes of it's population. Perhaps you just got confused?

Yes I did, my apologies.

Accepted. Why do you think the best way to handle this is on a governmental level? I don't think this is going to be something govts. are very well equiped to deal with. The areas of Pakistan where terrorists are being trained isn't under much govt. control and therefore the Paki govt. doesn't have much influence and can only threaten, which as we know doesn't work well with terrorists. I think the pressure has to come within the Muslim Community. The goal should be to change the hearts and minds of young Muslims and to point out the falsehoods of radicalized Islam.

[shropshire 0]

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Did I say they were?

No you didn't directly, but you keep implying that the Muslims need to sort their own house out and I'm sayings it's not a Muslim problem .... It's a criminal problem, by a group or groups that maybe hiding behind an apparent Muslim facade.

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But please list the terrorist attacks by Christians or Jews.

Too may to list... but here's a few.....
Christian....
Ireland - IRA, INLA, UDA, UVF etc... etc...
U.K/US - Various Anti-abortion groups (fire bomb, terrorise etc...)
Bosnia .... yeah it wasn't just the Muslims here either!
Oh, how about the KKK? Anti any Non-White Protestants

India - National Liberation Front of Tripura (Baptist or so they claim)

Uganda - Lord's Resistance Army

Jewish - Kach


Need more?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[kallend 1,679]

Only 55,000 (based on a small sample)?

Do you know how many US citizens actually voted for Ross Perot?

There are plenty of nut jobs to go around.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wmw999 2,175]

Ross Perot's greatest strength (besides being smart and effective) was that he would have pissed both sides off equally, and might have gotten them working together. Against him .

It's why I voted for him . But then I'm a lefty

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,476]

>There are plenty of nut jobs to go around.

Yep. I bet if you took a poll here in the US you could find 55,000 people that support blowing up abortion clinics - and way more than that who support the IRA.

[shropshire 0]

Oh and ..

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Until the group turns on them....There is no hope of anything else working.

They already have on numerous occasions.... Lots of Muslim leaders have condemed the criminals and continue to do so....

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[gmanpilot 0]

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except that you actually named the Muslims and I feel that you didn't need to

While it goes without saying that most Muslims desire peace. It is naive not to emphasise the Muslim community when analyzing the issue of terrorism. The jihadists are supported by a long established and well funded mechanism...ie, the Muslim community (fundamentalist clerics and congregations in particular).

The Mafia had a free and violent reign until enough Italian Americans got tired of it. The KKK was a de-facto political entity until enough Southern Americans got tired of it.

The Muslim community (specifically) does have a responsibility in this regard. The announced aim of the jihadist is the destruction of all nonbelievers, and their avowed method is indiscriminate and random murder. Until enough Muslims get tired of this and become proactive advocates for a peaceful community, the killings will continue.

_________________________________________
-There's always free cheese in a mouse trap.

[Salsa_John 0]

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Makes you wonder if they knew ahead of time. I wonder how many regular Muslim train and bus commuters weren't so regular that day?

I know someone who works in a bank in delaware (Nationally known)

Who had several hundred muslim families close their credit card accounts because they "were moving back home"

If I had even the least credible suspicion one of my church mates was going to bomb something, I would turn him or her in. No second thoughts

Can anyone say integrity? Nope? I didn't think so...

Also, if the actions of a few make the many look evil and the many choose not to act to stop the few...

Are the many really innocent or participants?

"You did what?!?!"

MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez

[Casurf1978 0]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1440391/posts

Pretty good article from the UK Sunday times. Addresses the subject about young radicals. Hope you enjoy it.

[diverborg 0]

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Watch the defence step forward, it'll be the following:

1. it's not racism, muslim terrorists are a HUGE (yet amazingly unquantified) threat.
2. Yeah, sure, its all the white guys fault, again.
3. You are politically correct, we're not the bad guys ever.
4. ???????

I pick number 2

[Gravitymaster 0]

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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1440391/posts

Pretty good article from the UK Sunday times. Addresses the subject about young radicals. Hope you enjoy it.

Thanks, I did.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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>There are plenty of nut jobs to go around.

Yep. I bet if you took a poll here in the US you could find 55,000 people that support blowing up abortion clinics - and way more than that who support the IRA.

The funny thing is - the amount of American people with an Irish heritage that actually support the IRA is tiny when compared to how many there are. I grew up with grandparents that were from Ireland on the South Side of Chicago where we are proud to be called Irish. Most of my friends families growing up were either first or second generation American and we were all very active in our community. My family still lives in Ireland and one even helps fight against terrorism. The closest I have ever been connected or heard a whisper about the IRA would have been from my grandfather about his brother that served in the true IRA in 1916....or the IRA bombings I witnessed while I was in Ireland in 1993.

It cracks me up thou how often someone in my social circle has been asked if they knew someone in the IRA or if they supported them. I feel sorry for the ignorance and prejudice that guides them to that thought. If any of us did know we would turn them in immediately. However, we don't so we just would prefer to live out our lives without being incorrectly connected to a group of extremists that do not represent us or where our families came from.

I think Darius was right on when he pointed out the typical serial killer: White male. Just because you are a white male should it be assumed that you know one, are hiding secrets about one, etc?

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[wmw999 2,175]

Interesting that no one in here has mentioned that the family of at least one of last week's suspected bombers has indicated they're not in touch with him, that they are horrified by what he has done, and asked that anyone in touch with him turn him in.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)