Patriot Act

[Balls 0]

There has been a lot of talk about the Patriot Act. I was wondering how many people have actually read it. Not read about it in the news, or heard about it on tv; But actually read the actual act.

----------------------------------------
....so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

[Travman 6]

How many people are aware that PATRIOT Act is an acronym for

Quote

Provide Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001

[mr2mk1g 10]

Isn't there also a clause snuck in there that if schools must provide their student's names and contact details to military recruiters so that they can call them at home to try and enlist them?

Admittedly kinda linked to military capability etc but I wonder how many parents realized it was in there when the bill was going through... I wonder how many congressmen realized...

Note that I'm not expressing an opinion on the worth of allowing military recruiters access to this data or in their tactics of contacting kids at home, just that I was somewhat surprised that the legislation enabling it was to be found inside an anti-terrorism bill.

[bodypilot90 0]

I do not see what the problem with that at all. kids that age are adults and can make up their own mind. Federal tax money being used. just a liberal whining point.

[mr2mk1g 10]

But what I'm saying is that I'm not expressing concern about the legislation itself... just curious as to why it was squirreled away in the Patriot Act.

Over here that's the sort of thing draftsmen do when someone doesn't want the public (or the Houses of Parliament for that matter) to notice.

Given that it's legislation that affects people's privacy and rights to a private life I would have thought there ought properly to have been a debate about it... instead it appeared to have been enacted in a way normally reserved for things Govts. don't want too many people to notice.

I just found that curious that's all.

[bodypilot90 0]

well nothing here is ever clear cut, why who knows. I am more concerned about the SC and my land then the patriot act.

[mr2mk1g 10]

I would be too - the stuff highlighted in those threads (admittedly my only source of info on the subject) is damned scary. Englishman's home is his castle and all that.

Anyway, that's off topic - back to the thread everyone.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Isn't there also a clause snuck in there that if schools must provide their student's names and contact details to military recruiters so that they can call them at home to try and enlist them?

I really doubt that even if the blue part is in there, that the rest is. Content is important, speculation isn't

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jdhill 0]

Quote

Isn't there also a clause snuck in there that if schools must provide their student's names and contact details to military recruiters so that they can call them at home to try and enlist them?

That has been a string attached to federal education funds since long before the PA.

Deny access, no funds.... although that stick was rarely used, at least while I was recruiting... it was easier to create a list through other means than to actually get funding cut off...

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[mr2mk1g 10]

Well there was a thread about the blue part a week or two ago... there's also numerous websites about it. I'm pretty sure that the Patriot Act was the enabling legislation for that requirement. Of course feel free to look it up yourself. I've phrased most of my posts as questions for a reason - that's what I'm doing.

As for the black part - yes of course, that might not have been anything like the intent of the legislation, I perfectly accept that. And as I said it's not that element of it that I'm curious about. The only reason the black part is there at all is that it is that action that people are complaining about now the legislation's in place.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

That has been a string attached to federal education funds since long before the PA.

Deny access, no funds.... although that stick was rarely used, at least while I was recruiting... it was easier to create a list through other means than to actually get funding cut off...

Congress has no balls. Instead of making it a law, it's a clause hidden in a bill with threats of funding cuts tied to it. Requiring registering with selective service at an earlier age can accomplish all that under the existing bill without bringing the schools into it at all. Recruiting at the schools should be encouraged just like any employer would be - let them all in or deny them all, no different.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jdhill 0]

Quote

Recruiting at the schools should be encouraged just like any employer would be - let them all in or deny them all, no different.

Therein lies the problem... many schools do not see the military as on par with other employers... they see the military as a choice for dead-enders or a distraction from college... remember, many schools are "graded" on how many of their grads go on to college... My experience is that rarely do school GC's actually have the student's interests/situation in mind.

The release of information is not the big deal, that is relatively easy to overcome... campus access is the bigger challenge. I have seen some schools exclude the military from career fairs.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[mr2mk1g 10]

Campus access is covered by the No Child Left Behind legislation though isn’t it? - that equalized the military's access with other employers and again cuts funding if recruiters are prevented from talking to students on school property (which arguably projects their rights beyond civi firms). The PA legislation gives the military more information than any other potential employers (unless the school is in to selling their contact lists and then it only comes down to a financial benefit). Again though I'm only really surprised by where this legislation's to be found, not it's content.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

There has been a lot of talk about the Patriot Act. I was wondering how many people have actually read it. Not read about it in the news, or heard about it on tv; But actually read the actual act.

So are you going to provide a link where we can actually read it?

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Quote

I do not see what the problem with that at all. kids that age are adults and can make up their own mind. Federal tax money being used. just a liberal whining point.

Then give me their name and number as well - I have jobs I can recruit them for also. Mine won't get them killed and will give them a better career path in the business world.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Quote

Quote

There has been a lot of talk about the Patriot Act. I was wondering how many people have actually read it. Not read about it in the news, or heard about it on tv; But actually read the actual act.

So are you going to provide a link where we can actually read it?

http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[jenfly00 0]

Quote

Quote

There has been a lot of talk about the Patriot Act. I was wondering how many people have actually read it. Not read about it in the news, or heard about it on tv; But actually read the actual act.

So are you going to provide a link where we can actually read it?

http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=12263&c=206

-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".