Fuck the Race Card Part II

[eflynn 0]

You make an interesting point.

I don't believe the rise in Black coaches is solely due to the mandate. I think there a number of factors, some of them tangible some of them not, that play a role in the rise of the number of Black coaches.

I don't know enough about the Art Shell v the Pollard alliance to have an intelligent conversation with you about it.

I do feel like no matter what policy exists someone will always take issue with it.

[eflynn 0]

---

Ah, yes. Because if you oppose them you are a "Racist". So most just ignore them. I am surprized that more in the black community are not telling them to shut up

---

Read the sentence after the one you quoted for the answer.

If you ignore them they'll just go away. If you argue with them you give them fuel. Ever played basketball? Do you know what the term "self checked" means?

---

Have you noticed that is not on the news?

And how some bashed Cosby for speaking his mind

---

I've noticed it's on BET's nightly news, and was in the AJC. Perhaps WET, ABC, and NBC missed it or didn't feel it was relavent.

The Bill Cosby thing touched off nerves for a number of reasons and would require an entirely different thread. In a nutshell, Bill Cosby said things most Black people would agree with but there's a time and a place for things. In addition Bill Cosby has a gang of stuff in his own closet. It's not quite tantamount but similar to MJ doing spots against child endangerment.

---

you have one group of people promoting themselves and saying how they are better.

---

BET and JET aren't saying Black people are better than any other race.

---

Can you name ONE show on BET that is aimed at whites?

---

No, because as you quoted from the website ""Find headline and music news, explore articles on health and lifestyle, and check out sections for African American women and professionals." Does that make it racist because you aren't interested in watching a network whose programming is targeted at us? No. It simply means you aren't interested. That's it. There are no shows, hosts, or content that expouse hatred toward any other race.

You and I had a frank discussion about the "n word" so it would seem to me that you'd stand to learn more about how other Black people feel about the word by watching "The Cousin Jeff Chronicles."

Black College Football show teams from historically Black Colleges and Universities playing. The same way ABC and ESPN shows teams from larger universites playing.

---

You are wrong, Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton the NAACP all would be up in arms. It would be called "Racist".

---

I don't agree. Initially there would be some chatter and raised eyebrows but shortly thereafter it would be chuckles and laughter. Some people are always going to have something to say. So what.

---

You claim its not all about blacks, but then you say it is to "highlight the accomplishments and achievements of Black people."

Which is it?

If it is only there to "highlight the accomplishments and achievements of Black people."...Then it is discriminatory and racist.

---

Show me where I said it wasn't about all Blacks so I can address what you said in context.

It would be racist if it was there to "highlight the accomplishments and achievements of Black people" and at the same time had derogatory things to say about other races.

---

How is that not racist

---

Because it doesn't downplay any other race. Racism implies one race thinking or acting as if they're superior. When was the last time you've looked through JET?

---

The "you have one, I want one too" way of thinking can be a bit pointless

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You mean how blacks have BET and JET? Or is it only OK for Blacks to have these things?

---

No I mean how you seem to say, even if it's for argument's sake, you have BET I want WET. WET already exists by default. The media certaintly isn't creating the majority of it's programming with Black people in mind.

---

YOU maybe, but there would be a big stink about it from several other blacks.

---

You asked me what I would say. Someone's always going to have something to say. So what.

[storm1977 0]

Ignorant statements I have noticed in this thread several times.....

People saying Slavery existed in the US for 400 yrs.
People saying Blacks should own whites for 400 yrs and
then we'd be even.

First of all, when did black slavery in the US begin?
When did Black slavery in the US end?
Subtract the first from the second, and that will tell you how long it was in the US.

My other point....

Some people may remember the Civil War... Right? Most of you heard of it correct????

What happened (generally) and Why?

Basically, the south said to the North (Union)...
We want to become our own Country... We are culturally, socially, and economically different, we are taking our shit and starting over.
To which the Union said... No F***ing way.

The North attacked the south, (not the other way around). The south wanted to be left alone, but the Government felt it was in their best interest to keep the country united. As a result of the end of the war, slavery was abolished.
This was not the "Cause" of the war, however, it was a "Good" benefit. Good for the slaves and good for the country.

Now, one could argue that the black slaves in this country are owed compensation for their suffering.
One too, could argue that the Black slaves owe the Union government a debt of gratitude.
No one is right, noone is wrong, but history is just that.

Slavery has ended in the USA and that is a good thing. We need to teach people about the past, but we must stop living there. Reparations would be an impossible task, and not necessary. They would do nothing but put more of a rift between the black and white community.

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

No I mean how you seem to say, even if it's for argument's sake, you have BET I want WET. WET already exists by default. The media certaintly isn't creating the majority of it's programming with Black people in mind.

The only color the Media cares about when creating shows is GREEN. Get real. These are Mega-Corporations and they have stockholders of all races, gender, and national origin. You reallly honestly believe there's some group of white guys sitting in a room saying "Lets just produce shows for whites only?" Bwahahahah..... Media Executives are beholden only to their stockholders and only care about money. Ask some of the Lefties on this site. They will tell you I am right.

[Gravitymaster 0]

It is true All White People owned Slaves isn't it?

[eflynn 0]

---

You reallly honestly believe there's some group of white guys sitting in a room saying "Lets just produce shows for whites only?

---

Did I say that?

A portion of the the decisions they make does involve the race.

---

Ask some of the Lefties on this site. They will tell you I am right.

---

Because they agree with you doesn't make them correct.

[eflynn 0]

We already addressed this.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Please give me one REAL example of how the black man does not have the same opportunity as a white man. Please use real world scenarios and factual information as to where a persons opportunity is limited solely based on skin color.

He's not black, but there's a lot of fishyness about the fact that no one ever offered Norm Chow a lead coaching position.

[Ron 7]

Quote

Ever played basketball? Do you know what the term "self checked" means?

No, Im short, white, have no game, and the only jumping I do requires a rig.

Quote

Bill Cosby said things most Black people would agree with but there's a time and a place for things.

At an event about "brown v BOE" I think it was a pretty good place.

Quote

No, because as you quoted from the website ""Find headline and music news, explore articles on health and lifestyle, and check out sections for African American women and professionals." Does that make it racist because you aren't interested in watching a network whose programming is targeted at us? No. It simply means you aren't interested. That's it. There are no shows, hosts, or content that expouse hatred toward any other race.

So a golf club that only catered to whites would be OK? Or a club that only wanted whites as members?

I don't think so, and most people would be up in arms over WET.

Quote

You and I had a frank discussion about the "n word" so it would seem to me that you'd stand to learn more about how other Black people feel about the word by watching "The Cousin Jeff Chronicles."

I said I would watch it, but I don't have cable...Feel free to tape it, and I will watch it.

Quote

Black College Football show teams from historically Black Colleges and Universities playing. The same way ABC and ESPN shows teams from larger universites playing.

Again, Black Colleges, and Black shows.

Notice there are no white colleges?

Quote

I don't agree. Initially there would be some chatter and raised eyebrows but shortly thereafter it would be chuckles and laughter. Some people are always going to have something to say. So what.

Yo don't think PUSH would be all over WET?

Quote

No I mean how you seem to say, even if it's for argument's sake, you have BET I want WET. WET already exists by default. The media certaintly isn't creating the majority of it's programming with Black people in mind.

And what I am saying is that blacks said "You already have WET, so I want BET". It works both ways.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[billvon 2,434]

>The only color the Media cares about when creating shows is GREEN. . . . .
>You reallly honestly believe there's some group of white guys sitting
>in a room saying "Lets just produce shows for whites only?"

You have answered your own question. Yes, if a producer thought that they could make money by making shows that feature whites only, they would do it. That's one reason we need anti-discrimination laws, because there are often economic forces that drive discrimination.

Take a more likely scenario. A store in Georgia needs to hire clerks. The majority of the potential customers of this store are bigots and don't like blacks, and are more likely to patronize stores that have no blacks in them. Refusing jobs to black clerks will therefore make the store owner more money. So he makes a purely capitalistic decision to hire only whites. Does that make it OK?

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

Take a more likely scenario. A store in Georgia needs to hire clerks. The majority of the potential customers of this store are bigots and don't like blacks, and are more likely to patronize stores that have no blacks in them. Refusing jobs to black clerks will therefore make the store owner more money. So he makes a purely capitalistic decision to hire only whites. Does that make it OK?

No less "ok" than the producers of BET deciding they only want to show videos made by black people on their station, or Hooters deciding they only want to hire women to wait tables. Personally, I think we're getting pretty close to the point where it's time to let private business owners make their own decisions about who they do or do not want to hire.

[KATO33 0]

Quote

People saying Slavery existed in the US for 400 yrs

OK 246 years.
People saying Blacks should own whites for 400 yrs and
then we'd be even.

The point being made was walk in My shoes before you tell me I need to quit complaining.
***

Blue Skies Black Death

[funks 1]

Quote

***
The point being made was walk in My shoes before you tell me I need to quit complaining.
***

Why would it be so tough to walk in your shoes?

[KATO33 0]

Quote

Again, Black Colleges, and Black shows.

Notice there are no white colleges?

These are

Quote

Historically

Black Colleges Founded at a time when Blacks weren't allowed to the attend the existing Colleges which were White by default.

Blue Skies Black Death

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

Quote

People saying Slavery existed in the US for 400 yrs

OK 246 years.
People saying Blacks should own whites for 400 yrs and
then we'd be even.

The point being made was walk in My shoes before you tell me I need to quit complaining.
***

Of course, on the other side, walk in our shoes for a bit. Seems both sides need to do a little more of this.

Of course, is it possible for me to walk in your shoes?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Ron 7]

Does not explain why it is OK for Blacks to have BET, but whites would be called racist.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

>The only color the Media cares about when creating shows is GREEN. . . . .
>You reallly honestly believe there's some group of white guys sitting
>in a room saying "Lets just produce shows for whites only?"

You have answered your own question. Yes, if a producer thought that they could make money by making shows that feature whites only, they would do it. That's one reason we need anti-discrimination laws, because there are often economic forces that drive discrimination.

Take a more likely scenario. A store in Georgia needs to hire clerks. The majority of the potential customers of this store are bigots and don't like blacks, and are more likely to patronize stores that have no blacks in them. Refusing jobs to black clerks will therefore make the store owner more money. So he makes a purely capitalistic decision to hire only whites. Does that make it OK?

Or perhaps the reason is blacks don't watch shows that feature blacks. If they did, there would be more shows that feature them. Your "force it down peoples throats" attitude is one of the main reasons we still have problems with disrimination. Have you found "forcing wing-loading down peoples throats" to be effective?

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

---

You reallly honestly believe there's some group of white guys sitting in a room saying "Lets just produce shows for whites only?

---

Did I say that?

A portion of the the decisions they make does involve the race.

---

Ask some of the Lefties on this site. They will tell you I am right.

---

Because they agree with you doesn't make them correct.

Heh, heh.. they never agree with me on much, so the fact that they do on this carries some weight.

[eflynn 0]

"Self checked" means you don't guard the person and let them shoot. They're not a threat.

---

At an event about "brown v BOE" I think it was a pretty good place

---

The event I was referring to was Howard University's commencement. Even still, I personally feel like you shouldn't air dirty laundry in certain venues or beat your child in public. That's a personal thing and I suspect that same thought played a part in the way people reacted to his comments. In addition he's no saint himself and has had his fair share of parenting issues. Both of his daughters went to Spelman which is the sister school of the college I went to Morehouse. I saw a video of his oldest daughter doing her best adult video star impression while she was still in school. We can all throw rocks at each other and all of our homes are glass on some front. While I like and respect Bill Cosby, he like other humans, has had his fair share of drug issues. You don't hear about it because everyone loves him.

---

So a golf club that only catered to whites would be OK? Or a club that only wanted whites as members?

---

You're missing the point. How would a Black golfer's needs be catered to differently than a White golfer's? With BET, either you like and enjoy the programming or you don't. There is no focus on Black musicians verses White musicians. It's a certain type of music. You could extend this same logic to anything else covered on BET.

BET doesn't only want Black viewers as you seem to be trying to say (referencing your club that only wants whites). The programming attracts viewers with certain interests. Just like programming on any other station.

---

Again, Black Colleges, and Black shows.

Notice there are no white colleges

---

The white colleges are on ABC, NBC, and ESPN. But again what are we really arguing about? Do you think more people watch BET college football or ABC? Which translates into exposure and ultimately money.

---

Yo don't think PUSH would be all over WET

---

I'm tired of talking about PUSH. They're not a threat or really an issue.

---

And what I am saying is that blacks said "You already have WET, so I want BET.

---

No, that's not how it worked. It was never about "they have televison stations we want one too." There was little to no representation of Black people in the media and the little there was was rarely accurate.

[billvon 2,434]

>Your "force it down peoples throats" attitude is one of the
>main reasons we still have problems with disrimination.

And exactly what am I forcing down people's throats?

>Have you found "forcing wing-loading down peoples throats" to be effective?

Somewhat. I've counted five 'saves' so far. A small percentage of skydivers, to be sure, but if I can get more people to make enough noise about it, there will be more saves.

[Ron 7]

Quote

"Self checked" means you don't guard the person and let them shoot. They're not a threat

Oh,thats why no one guards me

Quote

I personally feel like you shouldn't air dirty laundry in certain venues or beat your child in public

Sometimes that is the only way stuff gets delt with.

Quote

In addition he's no saint himself and has had his fair share of parenting issues

He who is without sin......every parent has issues.

Quote

I saw a video of his oldest daughter doing her best adult video star impression while she was still in school.

SWEET....is she hot?

Quote

While I like and respect Bill Cosby, he like other humans, has had his fair share of drug issues. You don't hear about it because everyone loves him.

I have heard about them. The fact he moved up is what I like about him. He is not perfect, he made mistakes but he did OK, and tries to do good with what he has.

Quote

You're missing the point. How would a Black golfer's needs be catered to differently than a White golfer's? With BET, either you like and enjoy the programming or you don't. There is no focus on Black musicians verses White musicians

Dude its in their charter...BLACK Entertainment Television.

Quote

BET doesn't only want Black viewers as you seem to be trying to say

The demographics are black males 18-35.

The simple fact is that BET is racist. It is an organization created for one segment of the population. Now they don't disallow white viewers...But the simple truth is that a white only channel would catch grief.

I still don't see why its OK for blacks, not OK for whites. (I know you say you don't care, but the truth is all hell would break loose)

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[BaconStrip 0]

Quote

That's one reason we need anti-discrimination laws, because there are often economic forces that drive discrimination.

Your statement is very ignorant. Free markets encourage employers to hire the most productive employees. Employers who choose to discriminate suffer financial consequences. However employers who are not economically accountable, have little incentive not to discriminate.

Quote

A store in Georgia needs to hire clerks. The majority of the potential customers of this store are bigots and don't like blacks, and are more likely to patronize stores that have no blacks in them.

You sure do stereotype Georgians in a negative way, BTW last I checked Georgia had a very high percentage of African Americans. And, I'm sure there are even some, who have jobs as clerks.

[billvon 2,434]

> Free markets encourage employers to hire the most productive
>employees.

No. The free market encourages employers to hire people who make them the most money. You could hire the laziest, most incompetent model in the world, but if pictures of her make you lots of money, then you made a good decision. And if white clerks make a store more money (because more bigots shop there) then there will be an economic incentive to hire only white clerks.

>Employers who choose to discriminate suffer financial consequences.

I agree! However, this is due at least in part to laws that provide for financial (and criminal) consequences for people who do this.

>You sure do stereotype Georgians in a negative way . . .

Pick any state/city you want. There are bigots out there.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Your statement is very ignorant. Free markets encourage employers to hire the most productive employees. Employers who choose to discriminate suffer financial consequences. However employers who are not economically accountable, have little incentive not to discriminate.

That is a suprisingly high number of employers (that aren't economically accountable, at least in their own minds).

You can't really apply the notion of free markets when it comes to hiring practices. The value of potential employees is very hard to establish, and even when it's obvious individuals will make non ideal choices.

Last year when a major bank decided to lowball me after two years as a contractor, I walked. Instead of paying me 5 more, they spent 50 replacing me with a contractor to hire type. Figure he was approaching my utility by 6 months, maybe. Why? Because the hiring manager and I got into a battle of wills. We both lost in the exchange, we both would have lost if I came on as a disgruntled employee.

Now I'm contracting at a financial that has virtually no competition, so the could have a roasted boar as CEO for a moth or two and not notice a big difference in the bottom line.

A company can definitely succeed with hiring discrimination, esp if they can do it without getting caught.

[diverborg 0]

Quote

You could hire the laziest, most incompetent model in the world, but if pictures of her make you lots of money, then you made a good decision.

Maybe the government should make anti-discrimination laws for ugly people so they can be models

Quote

Employers who choose to discriminate suffer financial consequences.

I agree! However, this is due at least in part to laws that provide for financial (and criminal) consequences for people who do this.

I think you completely missed the point. I think Baconstrip is trying to say that if a business does not hire the most productive and qualified person because of discriminitory reasons than they are going to suffer the financial consequences because of producion.

Leave the FREE market alone, the more stupid rules you put on it like this only F#$% it up.

Quote

And if white clerks make a store more money (because more bigots shop there) then there will be an economic incentive to hire only white clerks.

Is this a joke?