minimum wage increase killed by republicans

[sfzombie13 307]

so much for the republicans being your friends. it is sickening that congress can vote themselves a wage increase every year, and that any common person who has a minimum wage job can't even hope to support his family without working two or three jobs or living on welfare. i can't believe that one of the reasons they used to defeat it was that it would cut into the companies profit margins and force a lot of people out of business(seen on an interview on cnn last night). i have never been a democrat, and always found it hard to agree with them(i'm independant), but i will never vote republican again. don't blame me, i voted for kerry.

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[white_falcon 0]

then get out of the hourly wage jobs!!

This is truly a problem. I heard just this morning that there is a new push to raise the min wage to $7.15/hr. Thats ludicrous.

I am a small business owner and I assure you, raising the minimum wage HURTS small business. I would MUCH rather invest in AUTOMATION than employees at a required $7.15/hr. It would be MUCH more cost effective and, then where would the employee be?

You must look at all sides of the issue, not JUST your bank account, and realize that it could create more problems than it solves.

Scott

[Amanduh 0]

Honestly, what good would it do raising the minimum wage over $7 an hour? Do you realize what it would do to the economy & cost of living...it would skyrocket.

I think they made the best decision.

[Dazzle 0]

Wow, They recently anounced that the UK minimum wage will rise from £4.85 ($9.26) to £5.05 ($9.64)

The cost of living is higher over here though.

[sfzombie13 307]

i make $21 an hour in wv. i also own a small business, and the minimum i will pay to a good worker is $8. i knew that this forum would not be a good place to post this, obviously there are no minimum wage earners here, and it also seems that noone cares about the poor people in this country. and as for the cost of living skyrocketing, puh-lease!!! that's a buzz-line that's used when you're afraid to face reality. and if we would stop using outside resources instead of foreign made manufacturing and material, we could do this. wal-mart would not have as big a profit margin, but more people would have more money to spend there. if the ceo's of big companies would make a little less than $30+millilion a year, do the math. as for the small business owners hurting, if you need to raise your prices a little to make up for the cut into your profits, we can absorb this.

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[PhreeZone 15]

Democrats wanted to raise the wages to 7.15 over 2 years, republicans want to raise it to 6.25 over 18 months. At the 18 month mark both plans will be with in about .20 per hour.

Personally I agree with the republican plan to raise it a little lower, but faster. Coupled with ever increasing fuel prices and everything else its a better idea to only gently rock the economy and small business owners.

Besides, the republicans control even of the seats that on pure party lines they can win.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[white_falcon 0]

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....it also seems that noone cares about the poor people in this country. ...as for the small business owners hurting, if you need to raise your prices a little to make up for the cut into your profits, we can absorb this.

The poor people?? As my previous post indicates raise the minimum wage enough and people will figure out how to do without additional employees through automation.

As for raising prices (oh and this is called INFLATION) some businesses don't control the cost of the products sold (insurance agencies for example
Additionally, what about the person you were already paying at "x" dollars above min wage? You hire a new employee at the NEW min wage, are you goijng to give all of your existing employees a raise to offset the difference? Or did they just become worth less (percentage wise) than the new employee?

Something else to think about huh?

Scott

[Ron 7]

There were TWO bills in congress.

One from the repubs, one from the dems.

BOTH were shot down..

The Republican bill wanted to rasie it $1.10 in two doses of 55 cents.

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The GOP alternative fell by a wider margin, 38 for and 61 against.

The Dem bill wanted to rasie it $2.10

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The Democratic amendment was defeated, with 46 votes for and 49 against.

This is the good part:

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While the outcome was never in doubt, Democrats said in advance they hoped to use the issue to increase chances for passage of state minimum wage initiatives in 2006, as well as to highlight differences with Republicans who will be on the ballot next year.

.....

Kennedy accused Republicans of advancing a "deeper poverty agenda" for the poor by including several provisions to cut long-standing wage and overtime protections for millions of Americans. He took particular aim at Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pennsylvania, a conservative who is atop the Democratic target list for 2006 and the lead supporter of the GOP minimum wage alternative.

If the Dems had wanted to raise the Min wage, they could have done it easily to $6.25 with NO problem. They voted against it not because it was not enough but to try and make the Republicans look bad....And from your post it seems they did. But if they wanted to rasie the min....they could have, they chose to not did it so the Rebulicans look bad.


Kennedy had this to say about Santorum:

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"The senator from Pennsylvania has a record of opposing increases in the minimum wage," Kennedy said. "He has voted against it at least 17 times in the last 10 years."

However he failed to check his facts.

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"I have not had any ideological problem with the minimum wage, " Santorum responded, adding he voted for the last increase to clear Congress, in 1996. He said the other elements of the GOP plan were designed to help small businesses and give workers more flexibility in their work schedule, and not, as Kennedy said, weaken their rights.

Santorum sees a rate hike as much as 2.10 to be bad for business and it will be.

So your title should be "Wage increase killed in Congress", or Wage increase killed by Republicans AND Democrats".

Republicans ay this:

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"When you raise the minimum wage you are pricing some workers out of the market," said Sen. John Sununu, R-New Hampshire. "It is an economic fact, and the proponents of raising the minimum wage like to dismiss this by saying we have a hard time measuring it and the economy is large."

And there are several facts to back that up...Small businesses will lay off workers and try to do more with less.

Dems countered with emotion:

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Countered Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa: "This is a values issue. This is at the heart of what kind of country we want."

Having high values does no good if you can't find a job.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[lawrocket 3]

I think the minimum wage should be abolished. The minimum wage is designed for entry-level work. You know, those jobs I had at 17 and 18 years old. Believe it or not, I actually managed to move into management from a minimum wage job. Of course, that was 14 years ago, when I was young and didn't have the same responsibilities I have now.

That is, I no longer work an entry-level position in the workplace.

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any common person who has a minimum wage job can't even hope to support his family without working two or three jobs or living on welfare

Nope. You cannot support a family earning minimum wage. Solution? Don't start a family until you can earn a good wage. "If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em."

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i can't believe that one of the reasons they used to defeat it was that it would cut into the companies profit margins and force a lot of people out of business(seen on an interview on cnn last night).

So, are you saying that you'd LIKE to see companies go out of business? You know, my overhead for my law office is $23k per month. PER MONTH! Four employees (one at minimum wage). For those employees, I get to pay the following:

1) CGL insurance
2) workers' comp insurance (note that WC is based on payroll. Increase payroll dollars, increase WC costs)
3) payroll taxes
4) payroll
5) software license fees
6) lease for office space
7) additional phone lines
8) additional computer systems

So, increasing the minimum wage typically means that the lowest level employees get pay raises. That is, those employees who are not laid off.

Increasingly, the minimum wage victimizes those who are looking for entry-level jobs. The 16 year-old kid looking for his first job is competing with the 23 year-old man looking for his fourth job. Guess why so many jobs are minimum wage now?

You know, I RESENT your implication that I should suck it up and operate my business at a fucking loss. My overhead rises, I close up my shop and go to work for someone else. Either that or I fire three of my employees, get out of half of my lease, and lower my overhead to $5k per month.

I'd love to hire more people. I really would. But I don't have the money. If CA's minimum wage increases, I'm gonna have to let John go. It's that simple.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Casurf1978 0]

I was reading about this yesterday on Bloomberg. You're correct both Dems and Reps had bills, both failed. On a side note the Senate has had around $28,000 total in wage increases aka raises over the last 5 years. That around $5,000 a year. I wonder how many people get $5K raises every year even when the economy is hurting.

[sfzombie13 307]

i work in the construction industry. i pay employees what they are worth to me. if i have 2 guys working for me, 1 sits around, the other busts his hump, the guy who sits around goes home at the end of the day with a paycheck and no job. if i hire a new guy that knows more and is a better worker, he gets more money. and my payscale starts a good bit higher than min wage. when i sign my union contract, it will be almost 5x the min wage. then my prices go up, so do my bids. if i don't get a job because of it, i will move on to the next one and get it. not only am i the company owner, but a paid employee. it's a really neat system, i would recommend that everyone would vote to unionize, that solves the min wage issue.

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[white_falcon 0]

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You know, I RESENT your implication that I should suck it up and operate my business at a fucking loss. My overhead rises, I close up my shop and go to work for someone else. Either that or I fire three of my employees, get out of half of my lease, and lower my overhead to $5k per month.

I'd love to hire more people. I really would. But I don't have the money. If CA's minimum wage increases, I'm gonna have to let John go. It's that simple.

WELL SAID Lawrocket!!!

I am in FLA but the same applies here.

Scott

[Ron 7]

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On a side note the Senate has had around $28,000 total in wage increases aka raises over the last 5 years. That around $5,000 a year. I wonder how many people get $5K raises every year even when the economy is hurting.

The worst part is the rasies are AUTOMATIC they have to vote against hem to stop them....I voted for the Representative in my area that voted to STOP her own raise...I also called and told her that was one reason I voted for her.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[white_falcon 0]

Oh yea, Unions are the answer.



I have always thought that price fixing was illegal, so how unions get around this, I have NO idea.

Scott

[TheAnvil 0]

Good for them! Count on conservatives to keep the economy going in the right direction.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[white_falcon 0]

I also agree that the $$$ paid to our lawmakers is a bit over the top. Yes they should be compensated, but the VAST majority of those people profit already from the fact that they got elected, not to mention most had plenty of $$ to begin with.

Scott

[wmw999 2,157]

I agree that the way wage increases for the Senate and House are handled is appalling. But even if most of them are rich to begin with, it's fair to pay what a job is worth.

In Texas, the state legislature does not pay a living wage. Of course, that doesn't mean we don't have plenty of people who keep holding onto their legislative jobs with their fingernails, just like everywhere else.

It's about the power, not the money, I think. It must be hugely intoxicating. Some folks sure act like it, at least.

While we lose a body of knowledge by having term limits (which is bad), it might be that it's one way to have a more educated civil service that is less subject to change with each election.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[sfzombie13 307]

operate at a loss....that's laughable. if you increase 1 wage $2 an hour, that's a little over $4000 a year. with the extra taxes, it's a little over $6000. if you can't increase your prices and decrease your expenses enough to cover that, it sounds like someone is overpaid. please don't take this as a personal attack, it was not intended to be. i'm merely pointing out the fact that greed is the thing that rules the marketplace. i only bring in around $30k a year, and i'm doing well. i realize that some people have more expensive tastes, but c'mon, is anyone really worth 30+million a year?
in response to a later post, yes, unions can be an answer. when used correctly, and in most situations. i don't claim to have all the answers, or even most of them, but i know that we need to do something about the state of affairs in the community.

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[sfzombie13 307]

its not called price fixing, its called collective bargaining. the way it works is the union guy puts an offer out, and the company guy accepts or rejects it. then they haggle around until they agree on the new contract. in nc, my local actually took a $.15 loss this time. the thing that really hurts is when they do jobs at 80-90% of scale. scale in wv is $25.30, most jobs are at 90% - $22.77. they do this to allow newer and smaller companies to be competitive with the big guys. on a job i did once, i got $5k in 2 weeks, was i worth it? it was 7 12's that's 168 hours in 2 weeks. i think so. of course, that doesnt take into account the 4 months i was laid off after that, so it all evens out.

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[kallend 1,654]

My neighbor is a small business owner. He is forever grumbling about the cost of help (he hires minimum wage store clerks) and how hard it is to make a profit. He just built himself a $1M home, and last year bought a holiday cottage on a lake in Michigan where he can base his three speedboats. He drives up there each weekend in the summer in his Merc. (well, sometimes he takes his wife's Lexus SUV if they're towing a boat). He doesn't fly any more so he's selling his plane.

I really feel for the guy, just struggling to get by.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[white_falcon 0]

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...but i know that we need to do something about the state of affairs in the community.

Yep agreed. "we" need to take responsibility for ourselves, and quit demanding handouts. If you don't have it, don't spend it. Don't start a family ( as someone has already stated) unless you can afford it. Dont buy that $30000 auto if you don't have the $$, don't eat steak if you only have a chicken budget, etc etc etc.

I put myself through college on a min wage job and then went to work for a SALARY. I didnt start a family until i was 30 because I knew i couldn't afford it. It was called responsibility. I didn't expect anyone else to pick up the tab (and thats called pride, something a lot of people in this country lack nowadays) (that was NOT directed at you btw).

There are lot of thing wrong in this country today, but the minimum wage, IMHO is not one of them.

Scott

[white_falcon 0]

And why, should he not reap the rewards of HIS hard work???

You (generic "you" there) feel sorry for the minimum wage earners then start a business and pay them all of the profit of the business.



scott

[Ron 7]

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You (generic "you" there) feel sorry for the minimum wage earners then start a business and pay them all of the profit of the business.

They are called stock holders.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[white_falcon 0]

i didnt say go public Ron.
But hey, I own 100% here soo

lol

[sfzombie13 307]

i'm not saying he doesn't deserve what he worked for, all i'm saying is if you have enough money for all that, you can afford to spread the wealth. i remember when we got done building a house quickly, the boss would get a bonus. one of our bosses gave everyone of us on the crew a percentage. one guy didn't give us a thing, one guy took us all out to dinner whenever we got done. i will split the bonus among my workers. it keeps them happy, doesn't hurt me because it was "extra" money to start with, and is the right thing to do. as for the guys who didn't share the wealth with us, it is ok. we weren't working on commission anyway. i take care of my workers, and they in turn, do a good job for me. i'm not afraid to share a little bit.

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Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes