Jury Deliberates on NY Cop's Fate

[Kennedy 0]

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Jury Deliberates in Police Shooting Case
by Bob Hennelly

NEW YORK, NY, March 01, 2005 — Jury deliberations are expected to continue today in the case of City police officer Bryan Conroy. He's on trail for the shooting death of Ousmane Zongo, a West African immigrant.

Judge Daniel Fitzgerald instructed jurors that to convict Officer Conroy of second degree manslaughter they would have to find beyond a reasonable doubt that he acted wrecklessly and not in self-defense. The judge also cited state law that permits use of physical force to make a felony arrest and deadly force if the officer perceives he is in danger of being physically attacked.

The defense contends Conroy did not fire his weapon until Zongo lunged for it after Conroy, who was dressed as mailman, identified himself as a police officer. But prosecutors counter Conroy immediately pointed his gun and that Zongo was shot as he fled what he perceived was an armed aggressor. Conroy faces up to 15 years in prison.

(let's try and keep this one civil, or at least keep it from being locked)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Tonto 1]

So we have a cop that was dressed as a mailman, identifying himself, probably in English - to a man - probably thinking in Creole, while a gun was being drawn on him...

If I were the West African - I would have run away.

If I were the cop - I would never have thought that the man I had identified myself to was probably not a native to the English language.

I can't even order a "Coke" or Coca Cola" in the US. They don't understand me.

I think if the West African was Legal in the US, I'd blame the cop for this one. He certainly had more control over this situation than the man he shot.

(And WTF was he doing dressed as a mailman?)

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Kennedy 0]

This is the original stroy, from a thread that had to be locked.

Basically he was disguised as part of a task force raiding a warehouse for contraband.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1492874;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

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NEW YORK -- Jurors heard grand jury testimony Friday in which a police officer on trial for fatally shooting an unarmed African repairman describes a violent struggle over his gun and his fear that he would be killed if he lost the fight.

Prosecutors had the testimony read to the jury in Manhattan State Supreme Court, where Officer Bryan Conroy is charged with first-degree manslaughter in the death of Ousmane Zongo, 43. They say Conroy recklessly caused Zongo's death by chasing him and shooting at him.

Conroy, 25, said the battle for his life began around 4 p.m. on May 22, 2003, after he saw a man while guarding a bin of counterfeit CDs and DVDs that Staten Island Task Force police had seized inside Manhattan's Chelsea Mini-Storage on West 27th Street.

Zongo, the man Conroy spotted, had a nearby bin where he kept and repaired African musical instruments and art objects.

Conroy said he wanted to question the man so he drew his gun, yelled that he was a police officer, and told the man not to move. But, the officer said, the man advanced on him at two different times and tried to take his gun.

The first time, Conroy testified, the man walked 35 feet toward him, tried to grab the gun, and then turned and ran. The second time, Conroy said, the man, after running from him, charged him and wrestled with him until the officer fired twice, hitting him.

"I got hit in the nose with his upper right shoulder," Conroy said. "We wrestled around. I'm trying to get this man off me because it's clear to me that this man wants my firearm. It's clear to me that if this man gets my gun, I'm dead."

After hitting Zongo with the first two shots, Conroy said, the wounded man backed off. The officer said he fired two more shots and Zongo fell.

Assistant District Attorney Armand Durastanti said Zongo, who was married and the father of two, was shot in the upper back, the left chest and the lower center chest, and a bullet grazed his right arm. He died a short time later at a nearby hospital.

During the grand jury testimony, Conroy never reported that Zongo, a Burkina Faso native who spoke French and understood little English, said anything. The officer said several times that Zongo was "growling" at various points during the struggle.

After the shooting, Conroy said, "I couldn't believe what just happened. The last thing I wanted to do was shoot someone, much less kill anyone."

"I'm not a head hunter," Conroy continued. "I wanted to see the guy go home. I did what I did but he forced me to do it."

In his opening statement, Durastanti noted that the grand jury heard Conroy's testimony and indicted him.

There were no witnesses to the shooting, so the case turns on expert medical testimony, very little physical evidence, and whether the jury believes the defense.

On Thursday, Dr. Nancy S. Kwon, who examined Conroy in Bellevue Hospital's emergency room after the encounter with Zongo, testified that she did not see any injuries on Conroy and that he told her he was not hurt.

Conroy's lawyer, Stuart London, says Conroy had a red mark on his nose after the "life and death struggle" with Zongo over the officer's gun.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[mr2mk1g 10]

For me it comes down to a simple who's telling the truth exercise for the jury.

If they buy the cop's story he'll get off. If they figure he's lying he ought to go down. Simple as that.

None of us are on the jury; thus none of us can possibly second guess their call.

[Tonto 1]

Well, reading his testimony - I'd convict. Why?

he wanted to question the man so he drew his gun, yelled that he was a police officer, and told the man not to move.

I've been questioned by the police before. Not one drew a gun on me to do it.

"After hitting Zongo with the first two shots, Conroy said, the wounded man backed off. The officer said he fired two more shots and Zongo fell.

Zongo, who was married and the father of two, was shot in the upper back,

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"There were no witnesses to the shooting, so the case turns on expert medical testimony, very little physical evidence, and whether the jury believes the defense."

Surely the burden of proof must lie with the prosecution, and the proof has to be 'beyond reasonable doubt', is that the case here?

Based on that, the cop will probably walk. Rightly so in a society where people are innocent till proven guilty.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[justinb138 0]

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Zongo, who was married and the father of two, was shot in the upper back,

Normally, I'd be inclined to believe testimony by a police officer, but that fact can't be ignored. How can shooting someone in the back be classified as self defense?

I'm not certain with Texas law, but I think if someone tried to rob my house, and I used my gun to defend my self, when the cops showed up and found the guy shot in the back, I'd probably be arrested on suspicion of murder.

[mr2mk1g 10]

The cop said this guy lunged at him and grappled for the gun... perhaps the guy made a tackle attack at the cop... shooting down at the guy would end up hitting him in the back... in fact I can think of a couple of scenarios where the cop legitimately ends up shooting the assailant in the back during a struggle. But then I wasn't there.

The cop also admits to shooting the guy after he backed up... that could have been in the back. That's a significantly less defendable.

[Kennedy 0]

This is one of those things we can't know without being on the jury.

When a person is shot, they tend to react with different muscle contractions, including turning, hunching forward, and pulling their arms into their chest. If the officer fired twice in quick succession, it's possible ot hit a suspect in the back without even knowing it, and then have to shoot the guy again because he's still coming.

As to why the officer shot "after he backed up," I'd really have to hear his explanation for that, and my verdict would probably hang on that.

However, I'm sure at least one or two on the jury decided he was guilty before ever reaching the courtroom. It'll all depend on how the lawyers present the case and themselves to the jury. It's a he said/she said, and the cop is guilty until proven innocent on this one.

Not how it should be, but how it is.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[justinb138 0]

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When a person is shot, they tend to react with different muscle contractions, including turning, hunching forward, and pulling their arms into their chest. If the officer fired twice in quick succession, it's possible ot hit a suspect in the back without even knowing it, and then have to shoot the guy again because he's still coming.

Thanks, I hadn't thought of that.

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Not how it should be, but how it is.

Yep.

[mr2mk1g 10]

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I'm sure at least one or two on the jury decided he was guilty before ever reaching the courtroom.

To be fair, it's also quite possible a someone on the jury decided that no cop was going down for killing a purp/black guy/imigrant/someone before ever reaching the courtroom.

That's why both sides get to scratch jury members.

[EBSB52 0]

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I'm sure at least one or two on the jury decided he was guilty before ever reaching the courtroom.

To be fair, it's also quite possible a someone on the jury decided that no cop was going down for killing a purp/black guy/imigrant/someone before ever reaching the courtroom.

That's why both sides get to scratch jury members.

Fair, hell, that's the premise with which juries start when they hear cases involving cop defendants..... presumption of innocense - wish everyone could enjoy that

[Kennedy 0]

New York, with all its ...checkered... history with cops, you don't think anyone else has your view of police? What would you have done if you were called to jury duty for the case?

Do you know how many people reporting for a jury, any jury, go in assuming the person is guilty becuase they are in the defendant's chair?

With all the people who dislike cops, who outright hate cops, do you really think police go in with an advantage when the prosecutor wants to hang them?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[kmcguffee 0]

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How can shooting someone in the back be classified as self defense?

If they are running for cover with a weapon, turning to pick up a gun, spun around after lunging for the officer's gun, running away after shooting a person (defending others not self). There are lots of ways shooting someone in the upper back can be self defense. You don't have to wait until they are actively attacking you before defending yourself. You only have to have a reasonable belief (level varies by department) that they pose an imminent threat of death or serious injury to yourself or others.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[kmcguffee 0]

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Fair, hell, that's the premise with which juries start when they hear cases involving cop defendants..... presumption of innocense - wish everyone could enjoy that

Ever heard the phrase "innocent until proven guilty"? All jury members should start with a presumption of innocence since it's the law and all, dude.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[riggerrob 558]

During the grand jury testimony, Conroy never reported that Zongo, a Burkina Faso native who spoke French and understood little English, said anything. The officer said several times that Zongo was "growling" at various points during the struggle.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

My pet peeve is immigrants who do not learn the language of their new country.

If you move to the USA, you should learn to speak english.
If you move to Germany, you should learn to speak german.
etc.

[Maggotry 0]

But the US doesn't have an official language (23 states do though), so which are they to learn? Arabic? Chinese?

One could argue that the majority should decide; but then if it was that easy, English would have been the official language already.

Other than that, I agree with you 100%.

Assuming it was a communication problem that caused the shooting, I still don't get the two extra shots after the man backed off. I dunno much about US laws, but aren't you supposed to be in immediate danger to use deadly force?

[kmcguffee 0]

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but aren't you supposed to be in immediate danger to use deadly force?

Imminent not immediate. Immediate would mean he/she is in the process of attacking you. Imminent means that an attack is about to happen and they may or may not have begun that attack yet. You also don't have to be 100% positive that an attack is about to happen. You have to have a reasonable belief, my department, or probable cause, some other departments. Then you shoot until the threat is eliminated. You have to judge the shooting, according to the courts, based on the information that the cop had at the time of the shooting. Not based on 20/20 hindsight.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[Kennedy 0]

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=7830863

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Mistrial in NY Police Shooting of African Immigrant
Mon Mar 7, 2005 04:38 PM ET

NEW YORK (Reuters) - A mistrial was declared on Monday in the manslaughter trial of New York police officer Bryan Conroy, who shot and killed an unarmed African immigrant nearly two years ago.

The District Attorney's office said it would retry the case.

A $150 million civil lawsuit has been filed by Zongo's estate against the city, Conroy and the police department. It cannot proceed until the criminal trial is resolved.

Conroy, 26, faced a prison term of up to 15 years for shooting Ousmane Zongo, 43, four times while working undercover in May 2003, in a Manhattan warehouse raid.

Justice Daniel Fitzgerald declared a mistrial after the jury advised its members could not agree on a verdict in the Manhattan's State Supreme Court trial after more than five days of deliberation.

Conroy was the first New York police officer to stand trial for a fatal shooting since the racially charged case involving West African Amadou Diallo, who was mistaken for a rape suspect and killed by police officers six years ago.

Conroy did not testify during the trial. Instead, his grand jury testimony, where he contended he had shot Zongo in self-defense after the West African had tried to grab his gun, was reread during jury deliberations.

Zongo, who spoke little English, worked in the warehouse as a restorer of African art and was not under investigation in the raid.

Prosecutors said Conroy acted recklessly and made up the story of the struggle.

Outside the courtroom, Zongo's family members, who had traveled from his home country of Burkina Faso, shouted "Justice for Zongo" as supported rallied around them.

The family's attorney, Sanford Rubenstein, said the family would return for the next case hearing on April 7 in preparation for the new trial.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*