peregrinerose 0 #26 February 18, 2005 QuoteI couldn't agree more, Doctors have gone way overboard prescribing medications, especially for little things like the common cold. True. But patients come into our offices asking for medications to make them better, for things like the common cold. If we tell them that there are no medications for a cold (virus), and that it will run it's course, then they go running off to another doc who will give them an antibiotic regardless of the actual need for it. Patients come in wanting quick fixes and meds, never thinking about the side effects of them, doctors want to keep their patients happy, so give them the meds, so patients think that all their woes can be saved with meds, and the cycle continues. Everything has multiple effects, whether over the counter meds, vitamins, herbals, or prescription medications. There are no exceptions to this. We are a pill happy society, and it is starting to catch up with us. Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyclearjohn 0 #27 February 18, 2005 QuoteSupplements like vitamin E are no problem in doses comparable to RDA amounts - but can be toxic in very high concentrations. The US RDA is 30 mg/d (30 milligrams per day.) Once you exceed 3200 mg/d you might start to see problems. In other words, if you're taking more than 100 times the US RDA you might see some coagulopathy, osteoporosis or problems with your immune system. "Who in their right mind would do that?" you ask. Look no further than the bottles of 1000mg/tablet vitamin C on the shelf. Hey, if the RDA of vitamin C (60 mg/d) is good for your immune system, 1000 mg/d must be 20 times better! People can be stupid. You can take all the Vit C (and other water soluble vitamins) you want. You won't get any extra benefit from them. You'll just piss em out. There's risk in taking larger doses of the fat soluble vitamins A,E,D,K (and questionable benefit from taking them at all) because they accumulate in fat cells, can build to toxic levels and cause significant problems, including death. John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,166 #28 February 18, 2005 QuoteYou can take all the Vit C (and other water soluble vitamins) you want. You won't get any extra benefit from them. You'll just piss em out. One thing I've noticed when I have a cold is that I don't pee bright yellow from extra vitamin C. Something in my metabolism changes then, clearly. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #29 February 18, 2005 QuoteQuoteYou can take all the Vit C (and other water soluble vitamins) you want. You won't get any extra benefit from them. You'll just piss em out. One thing I've noticed when I have a cold is that I don't pee bright yellow from extra vitamin C. Something in my metabolism changes then, clearly. Wendy W. But does your urine smell.....umm......funky? lol...just kidding -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #30 February 18, 2005 Quote True. But patients come into our offices asking for medications to make them better, for things like the common cold. If we tell them that there are no medications for a cold (virus), and that it will run it's course, then they go running off to another doc who will give them an antibiotic regardless of the actual need for it. Are there really that many people like that? By the time I can get in to see a doctor, I'm no longer symtomatic anyway. Quote Patients come in wanting quick fixes and meds, never thinking about the side effects of them, doctors want to keep their patients happy, so give them the meds, so patients think that all their woes can be saved with meds, and the cycle continues. IMO, that's a really weak justification. If you feel you have to give them something, why not give them mega Vit C bills or powdered hydrogen dioxide? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #31 February 18, 2005 IMO, that's a really weak justification. If you feel you have to give them something, why not give them mega Vit C bills or powdered hydrogen dioxide? Why is it a weak justification? There are some medications that can help with cold symptoms. Why, if a patient wants something to help with cold symptoms, is it a problem for a doctor to prescribe something to help with cold symptoms? In my experience, MANY doctors will discuss with patients non-prescription supplements that can help keep them healthy.... Common ones that I KNOW are often recommended are Vit C, Vit D, Calcium supplements, Vit E, Black Cohosh, CoEnzyme Q10, soy, Omega 3 Fatty Acids. There are more. There are side effects of many medications. Those should be discussed with patients. Most people are capable, in my opinion, of deciding with their physicians whether the risks/side effects outweigh the benefits, and if any given medications are something they desire to take. Physicians prescribe the best medications we have to help patients recover and feel better. Nobody's gonna force them on you. If you aren't satisfied with what those options are, then you're usually not forced to follow any physician's recommendations. But at least the medications you're being prescribed have been tested heavily. There sometimes are still problems, but a LOT more is known about effects of prescription medications than is known about most herbal supplements.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,464 #32 February 18, 2005 >Are there really that many people like that? Yes. Amy sees dozens of them a season. "What do you mean, you won't prescribe antibiotics for my two year old son? He's SICK!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #33 February 19, 2005 Quote Why is it a weak justification? There are some medications that can help with cold symptoms. Why, if a patient wants something to help with cold symptoms, is it a problem for a doctor to prescribe something to help with cold symptoms? We know that antibiotics have no value for colds, and that incremental use of antibiotics leads to resistant strains. Prescribing them has no benefit other than getting the patient to leave. Other drugs? I guess it only hurts the patient, which seems a bit out of character for 'do no harm.' Jen clearly stated we're talking about drugs that are unnecessary. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #34 February 19, 2005 Jen clearly stated we're talking about drugs that are unnecessary. OIC .... I hope that we're getting better about that. It is hard not to cave to patient pressure, and from what I see in teaching hospitals, we ARE doing better. I imagine that in the private world the change is slower. I did take my child in to have his infected ear looked at. I was pleased that the private physician did NOT come back in with antibiotics, but with decongestants. linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #35 February 19, 2005 You make a good point, Lindsey.... I have a family history of hypercholesteremia and both parents died of sudden heart attacks. I was prescribed cholesterol medication, and have been on it for the last 2.5 years. That helped take my total cholesterol down from 300 to 190. I've done some research on my own, and now take a good multivitamin, EFA supplements, and a daily low-dose aspirin along with my cholesterol medication. I'm also on a limited carbohydrate diet. The change in diet and supplementation combined to take my total cholesterol down to around 120. My original doctor wanted to see a total cholesterol under 100, and HDL of at least 50. My levels have gotten better, but I'm not there yet. I've recently started discussing supplementation with the doctor at the base hospital and the pharmacist after doing some reading about Co-enzyme Q10. They both feel that supplementation with it wouldn't HURT anything, but advised me to do a lot of research beforehand. Both were careful to mention that they had heard of no harmful side effects but that the final decision was mine, as it was not something that they could prescribe for me. So, to make a long story short, I agree with you. The doctor's attitude and willingness to "buck the system" and work with / educate the patient has a LOT to do with reducing the amount of spurious prescriptions that get written. MikeMike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Extrakt 0 #36 February 20, 2005 Quote Why is it a weak justification? There are some medications that can help with cold symptoms. Why, if a patient wants something to help with cold symptoms, is it a problem for a doctor to prescribe something to help with cold symptoms? In my experience, MANY doctors will discuss with patients non-prescription supplements that can help keep them healthy.... Common ones that I KNOW are often recommended are Vit C, Vit D, Calcium supplements, Vit E, Black Cohosh, CoEnzyme Q10, soy, Omega 3 Fatty Acids. There are more. People need to be educated on why they are sick and that by suppressing the symptoms of a cold they are just hiding them under the surface. The human body gets sick for a reason, to remove wastes, and if you stop this process you just make the problem worse the next time round. Then if they still want the drugs, give them to them. That’s good that you discuss some alternatives other than prescriptions but what happened to good old Garlic, Ginger, Lemmon and Honey tea? This and Vitamin C powder is one of the best Common Cold remedy’s out there. "If murder and suicide are illegal, then why is it ok to kill yourself and others with cigarettes?????" www.myspace.com/Hypoxicmusic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,672 #37 February 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteI couldn't agree more, Doctors have gone way overboard prescribing medications, especially for little things like the common cold. True. But patients come into our offices asking for medications to make them better, for things like the common cold. If we tell them that there are no medications for a cold (virus), and that it will run it's course, then they go running off to another doc who will give them an antibiotic regardless of the actual need for it. There's an excellent drug for such people. It's called "Placebo".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Extrakt 0 #38 February 21, 2005 Quote There's an excellent drug for such people. It's called "Placebo". Here Here!!! "If murder and suicide are illegal, then why is it ok to kill yourself and others with cigarettes?????" www.myspace.com/Hypoxicmusic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Travman 6 #39 February 21, 2005 Too much of anything if bad for you.... except altitude - not enough usually causes problems there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Extrakt 0 #40 February 21, 2005 QuoteToo much of anything if bad for you.... except altitude - not enough usually causes problems there. Depends if you've got a pressure suit and breathing mask on. "If murder and suicide are illegal, then why is it ok to kill yourself and others with cigarettes?????" www.myspace.com/Hypoxicmusic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,464 #41 February 21, 2005 >It's called "Placebo". That's some good shit! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cameramonkey 0 #42 February 23, 2005 Hell... water is "harmless" but people die of "water poisoning" (drowning) daily ;) I also remember that ingesting (not inhaling) too much water can even be lethal. Its freakish, but has happened.Two wrongs don't make a right, however three lefts DO! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #43 February 23, 2005 QuoteHell... water is "harmless" but people die of "water poisoning" (drowning) daily ;) I also remember that ingesting (not inhaling) too much water can even be lethal. Its freakish, but has happened. It's happening increasingly often in marathons, esp those doing 'charity races' as their first one and were overdrilled on the importance of drinking water. It takes amazingly little salt or gatorade to avoid, but here we are. There was also a hazing death with a banned frat recently. The victim drank 5 gallons of water. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cameramonkey 0 #44 February 23, 2005 http://www.dhmo.org/ Ban Dihydrogen Monoxide!!!! LOLTwo wrongs don't make a right, however three lefts DO! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #45 February 23, 2005 Quotehttp://www.dhmo.org/ Ban Dihydrogen Monoxide!!!! LOL Aliso Viejo in California almost banned this, no I'm not joking: http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,1176710,00.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #46 February 24, 2005 Quotehttp://www.dhmo.org/ Ban Dihydrogen Monoxide!!!! LOL That's a funny website... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Extrakt 0 #47 February 24, 2005 QuoteQuoteHell... water is "harmless" but people die of "water poisoning" (drowning) daily ;) I also remember that ingesting (not inhaling) too much water can even be lethal. Its freakish, but has happened. It's happening increasingly often in marathons, esp those doing 'charity races' as their first one and were overdrilled on the importance of drinking water. It takes amazingly little salt or gatorade to avoid, but here we are. There was also a hazing death with a banned frat recently. The victim drank 5 gallons of water. Most people who die while taking Extasy die because of excess water consumption. "If murder and suicide are illegal, then why is it ok to kill yourself and others with cigarettes?????" www.myspace.com/Hypoxicmusic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #48 February 24, 2005 QuoteMost people who die while taking Extasy die because of excess water consumption. Is that rave related, or does the drug increase the user's sense of thirst? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoadRash 0 #49 February 27, 2005 QuoteQuoteMost people who die while taking Extasy die because of excess water consumption. Is that rave related, or does the drug increase the user's sense of thirst? That's a good question...I heard on a documentary on A&E that E users could become so dehydrated that they lose conciousness...or worse...and yes, it is generally rave related from what the show was saying...literally dance till you drop...... ~R+R...~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
