Gun Laws Do Stop Criminals

[Paulipod 0]

Just thought it would be fun to note that quite a few criminals have been locked up for illegally possesing guns here in the UK

Hence proving that some gun laws do stop some criminals

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[rushmc 18]

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Just thought it would be fun to note that quite a few criminals have been locked up for illegally possesing guns here in the UK

Hence proving that some gun laws do stop some criminals

I do not believe that what you state, is the argument. Gun laws jail criminals here in the US too. However, laws that remove guns from the law abiding public, and worthless bans, do not. (I feel your post is misleading.....) If I misunderstood forgive me please.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[EBSB52 0]

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Just thought it would be fun to note that quite a few criminals have been locked up for illegally possesing guns here in the UK

Hence proving that some gun laws do stop some criminals

I do not believe that what you state, is the argument. Gun laws jail criminals here in the US too. However, laws that remove guns from the law abiding public, and worthless bans, do not. (I feel your post is misleading.....) If I misunderstood forgive me please.

And you make the assumption that those arrested criminals would have used their guns in a crime. Furthermore, assuming that guns legally owned are never used in crimes is a fallacy too.

[Paulipod 0]

Whether they used the guns or not.... they broke a law here - so... hence are criminals and have been reprehended appropriately.

The post is a little tongue in cheek - however the title on the other thread could be just as misleading.....

As some gun laws (like felons arent allowed guns) do stop criminals once they are caught and prosecuted. If the title was 'Gun banning laws' then I would have held my hands up

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[boudy 0]

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Just thought it would be fun to note that quite a few criminals have been locked up for illegally possesing guns here in the UK

Hence proving that some gun laws do stop some criminals

Fine, point acknowledged FWIW. Sometimes some gov't regulation actually does some good.

(I've actually come to favor concealed carry for Illinois with reasonable restrictions - just to give predators second thoughts about attacking innocent, easy victims - like my 70-something Mom when she's returning to her car from a business call in a bad area)
My question is - how do we stop all these blasted Gun Threads?

[JohnRich 4]

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My question is - how do we stop all these blasted Gun Threads?

The proper response to free speech that you don't like, is to just ignore it. Not to try and restrict free speech.

[JohnRich 4]

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quite a few criminals have been locked up for illegally possesing guns here in the UK Hence proving that some gun laws do stop some criminals

In the news:

Gun Crime - Rising Every Year

...with the equivalent of one gun crime every hour in Britain, official figures show the problem has more than doubled in Leeds in the last six years... ...across England and Wales the number of gun crimes have doubled since 1997...

Source: http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3833860

1997 was the year that all handguns and all semi-auto long guns were confiscated. And since then, gun crime has doubled! Is this your idea of a successful gun law? You should pray that you don't have more such "successes"...

[Paulipod 0]

I didnt state that the laws were effective or not and the relevance to crime rates..

But... for the criminals that are locked up - they have been stopped.

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[freethefly 6]

And what about people who have been locked up for killing with a knife or another weapon? Should those items also be banned?
You should give this topic a break. A good majority of Americans are in favor of gun ownership. The majority of these people are responsible, law abiding people. Most use guns for hunting, others for target and most also protection.
Scenerio: You are awoken late at nite by a presence in your room. Your wife is asleep next to you, your kids down the hall. Do you know if this person wants to do harm to you and your loved ones? Has he done something already to your kids down the hall? How can you be sure he hasn't already? If you just lie there he might just leave or he might decide to kill everyone. Are you willing to take that chance? Not me. Break in to my house and you will leave in a body bag. My gun is loaded and close at hand. I am not paranoid nor am I scared. I have however been shot and do not wish it to happen again. Paulipod, feel how you may about firearms but just remember that the chance of any country marching their army across the UNITED STATES of AMERICA is an event that will never happen as long as we remain armed to the gills. There is something that can be said about peace through superior firepower and something can be said about disarming the people. The U.S.A. never disarmed for nobody. That cannot be said for Europe. We know who kicked Hitlers ass and it wasn't the French. Seemed everybody loved our guns then. Next time the U.S.A. and its guns should stay home and just let the rest of the world fall apart.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[JohnRich 4]

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I didnt state that the laws were effective or not and the relevance to crime rates..But... for the criminals that are locked up - they have been stopped.

I agree with your last sentence. The way to combat crime is to lock the criminals up.

But then the bleeding hearts whine about how many people are in prison... Tough!

We should lock people up for actual crimes against people or property, like assault or burglary.

However, we should not create new crimes, such as those of a technical paperwork nature, where some law-abiding person goes to prison for mere possession of a gun, when he hasn't used that gun in some other crime.

In Chicago, where guns must be registered and a gun owner's license must be obtained, there are cases where the police are going to the homes of people whose licenses have expired, to confiscate their now "illegal" guns. This is wrong, IMO, and is representative of what I'm talking about. Just because a license expires, shouldn't make you subject to arrest and property confiscation. It's a mere technical thing, where no crime against any other person or their property has been comitted. The State creates these "crimes", with their onerous paperwork laws.

Imagine the police confiscating your automobile, simply because you were a little late renewing your registration...

[Paulipod 0]

yes yes, I know.... America won the war... no one else was involved... I owe my English accent and the appreciation that I dont speak German to you... Its all down to the civilian firearms you carry...

Give the WW2 harping a rest. The topics are not related. Civilian and Combat situations are not really the same thing.

My thread was based on the fact that (again tongue in cheek) some "GUN" laws (note I have never mentioned banning here) result in criminals being put behind bars.

So - before you suggest I give the topic a break... I didnt raise the topic of banning guns here. You did.

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[Jimbo 0]

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I didnt state that the laws were effective or not and the relevance to crime rates..

But... for the criminals that are locked up - they have been stopped.

Gun laws didn't stop the criminals. Crimes were committed and criminals were caught and punished. If gun laws were effective at stopping criminals your crime rate would go down, correct? The number in prison for gun related crimes would go down, correct?

Gun laws don't -stop- gun crime, but instead give us a framework for punishment of a criminal -AFTER- a crime has been committed.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[kallend 1,652]

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We know who kicked Hitlers ass and it wasn't the French.

Quite correct. The Russians killed more Nazis than all other nations combined.

But what has that to do with gun laws?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Paulipod 0]

Ahh, this is where we get into word play... lol

Strictly speaking, once imprisoned a criminal has been stopped from commiting further crime.

Prevention is a different matter and I didnt say that Gun law prevented crime.

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[Jimbo 0]

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Strictly speaking, once imprisoned a criminal has been stopped from commiting further crime.

So you're not going to address the crime that put him there? You know, the gun crime that wasn't stopped by a law.

We already have laws to address violent, predatory behaviour. These laws already cover most, if not all all crimes committed with a gun.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Paulipod 0]

I ought to get a job as a lawyer playing these word games...

Lets say someone a felon - is in possesion of a gun... that may be his only current crime. If he is locked up - Gun laws have therefore stopped a criminal - in his tracks for a current crime and the continuance of the crime of carrying a gun.

Ergo - Gun laws do in deed stop criminals.

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[craddock 0]

I am not sure what the fuck you are trying to say

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Whether they used the guns or not.... they broke a law here - so... hence are criminals and have been reprehended appropriately

Really? An investment banker who is an advid target shooter loses his gun rights because he is convicted of insider trading. He gets caught on a range and is back in prison with the burdon being put on the taxpayers.

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But... for the criminals that are locked up - they have been stopped.

Stopped from what? Working? Paying Taxes? Supporting their family? Yes I guess your right. Gun laws do stop criminals. And I suppose you think most criminals are violent?

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[Paulipod 0]

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And I suppose you think most criminals are violent?

Not sure where you get that supposition from.

However, I would agree that any law-breaker should be punished.... and if there is a reason for them to be locked up - would argue they have been stopped from continuing to commit that crime at least!

Bottom line - people shouldnt break the law! Even if the law is one that isnt really relevant just becuase a former crime was a paper one.

Bodyflight Bedford
www.bodyflight.co.uk

[Jimbo 0]

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I ought to get a job as a lawyer playing these word games...

Not if you like things like a full belly and a roof over your head.

Oh well, I can recognize that your mind is made up. I'm outta here.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[AggieDave 6]

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The Russians killed more Nazis than all other nations combined.

And they killed even more of their own country men during Stalin's reign then that number as well.

You couldn't own a gun in Soviet Russia, so there's your connection.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[EBSB52 0]

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And what about people who have been locked up for killing with a knife or another weapon? Should those items also be banned?
You should give this topic a break. A good majority of Americans are in favor of gun ownership. The majority of these people are responsible, law abiding people. Most use guns for hunting, others for target and most also protection.
Scenerio: You are awoken late at nite by a presence in your room. Your wife is asleep next to you, your kids down the hall. Do you know if this person wants to do harm to you and your loved ones? Has he done something already to your kids down the hall? How can you be sure he hasn't already? If you just lie there he might just leave or he might decide to kill everyone. Are you willing to take that chance? Not me. Break in to my house and you will leave in a body bag. My gun is loaded and close at hand. I am not paranoid nor am I scared. I have however been shot and do not wish it to happen again. Paulipod, feel how you may about firearms but just remember that the chance of any country marching their army across the UNITED STATES of AMERICA is an event that will never happen as long as we remain armed to the gills. There is something that can be said about peace through superior firepower and something can be said about disarming the people. The U.S.A. never disarmed for nobody. That cannot be said for Europe. We know who kicked Hitlers ass and it wasn't the French. Seemed everybody loved our guns then. Next time the U.S.A. and its guns should stay home and just let the rest of the world fall apart.

I agree with you for the most part, but for this to drift from a local issue to a global issue is off point. I don't think other countries owe us for fighting wars, even if the result is that we do save their bacon. The reason the US is involved in wars is because we like to. So I dismiss any myrterdom here.

As for the right and ability of the citizens of a country to own firearms in a generally unencombered fashion; I'm all for it.

The reason some people from other countries adopt an anti-gun ownership mentality is becuase they cannot own them. I say that in a very respectful manner, but I believe it to be true. I want to get out of the US and move to Europe in the next few years, and if I do I will make that sacracfice.

"Break in to my house and you will leave in a body bag."

And if it's the middle of the day and you catch a theif on the way out of the house and shoot him in the back as he tries to escape, you will be leaving in handcuffs most likely. So discretion needs to be used here.

[AggieDave 6]

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And if it's the middle of the day and you catch a theif on the way out of the house and shoot him in the back as he tries to escape, you will be leaving in handcuffs most likely

Depends on where you live. In Texas that is perfectly legal. You have the legal right to protect with lethal force your life AND your property in Texas.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[EBSB52 0]

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I didnt state that the laws were effective or not and the relevance to crime rates..But... for the criminals that are locked up - they have been stopped.

I agree with your last sentence. The way to combat crime is to lock the criminals up.

But then the bleeding hearts whine about how many people are in prison... Tough!

In Chicago, where guns must be registered and a gun owner's license must be obtained, there are cases where the police are going to the homes of people whose licenses have expired, to confiscate their now "illegal" guns. This is wrong, IMO, and is representative of what I'm talking about. Just because a license expires, shouldn't make you subject to arrest and property confiscation. It's a mere technical thing, where no crime against any other person or their property has been comitted. The State creates these "crimes", with their onerous paperwork laws.

"But then the bleeding hearts whine about how many people are in prison... Tough!"

What if these are innocent people? We have well over 2 million people in prisons run by corporations that profit from essentially slave labor. There is a big problem here. As an American your odds are 1:146 of being locked up. Since virtually all prisoners are men, that makes the numbers of being an American male incarcerated at 1:85 or so.

"We should lock people up for actual crimes against people or property, like assault or burglary."

There are 2 categories crimes:

Violent and property.

"However, we should not create new crimes, such as those of a technical paperwork nature, where some law-abiding person goes to prison for mere possession of a gun, when he hasn't used that gun in some other crime."

Huh, WTF does this mean????? Are you trying to eliminate the category of white-collar crime? White collar-criminals, such as bankers or AZ Gov Symington, or the good folks at Enron are worse than all the Ted Bundy's put together. I'm not sure if you're saying to excuse them or not.

"Imagine the police confiscating your automobile, simply because you were a little late renewing your registration..."

No, cops only confiscate cars under RICO when a guy is picking up a whore or a bag of dope. That's due to our conservative agenda back in the 80's with Fascist Reagan and his war on drugs. Speaking of which, about 1/2 the people incarcerated are there because of drug related crimes. As much as I despise drugs I despise this more. Didn't we learn anything about prohibition of alcohol?

"In Chicago, where guns must be registered and a gun owner's license must be obtained, there are cases where the police are going to the homes of people whose licenses have expired, to confiscate their now "illegal" guns. "

Wow, it's here. I was unaware that states other than Cali were there yet. Ya, that sucks. As I've said before, personal gun ownership is not US Constitutionally protected. The writing is so vague in the 2nd that it could easily be interpreted that a state-run militia be one that controls the weapons, which could mean close control and registration or even checking them in and out.

[EBSB52 0]

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Lets say someone a felon - is in possesion of a gun... that may be his only current crime. If he is locked up - Gun laws have therefore stopped a criminal - in his tracks for a current crime and the continuance of the crime of carrying a gun.

Ergo - Gun laws do in deed stop criminals.

"I ought to get a job as a lawyer playing these word games... "

"Lets say someone a felon - is in possesion of a gun... that may be his only current crime. If he is locked up -..."

That depends upon what the definition of, "is" is

[EBSB52 0]

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And if it's the middle of the day and you catch a theif on the way out of the house and shoot him in the back as he tries to escape, you will be leaving in handcuffs most likely

Depends on where you live. In Texas that is perfectly legal. You have the legal right to protect with lethal force your life AND your property in Texas.

I think that's presumptuous to lay a blanket accross all situations. Obviously you have a better chance of no charge/acquital in Texas, but I wouldn't make a blanket statement.