FinlanderSisu 0 #1 October 27, 2004 I know it may hurt some http://www.forbes.com/commerce/2004/07/20/cx_da_0720presidents.html And furthermore http://www.eriposte.com/economy/other/demovsrep.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #2 October 27, 2004 http://www.eriposte.com/economy/other/demovsrep_comments.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,672 #3 October 28, 2004 Before anyone cries "liberal media bias"... the publisher of Forbes is a prominent Republican.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FinlanderSisu 0 #4 October 29, 2004 So nobody can come up with credible evidence against Dems dominating at economic policy? Or for that matter can anyone show how supply side economics effectively has worked in the past or why Bush continues to think it will? Problem with trickle down economics is it never trickles all the way down rarely getting past the deep pockets Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 200 #5 October 29, 2004 Supply-side economics doesn't work in the trickle-down model at all. It works two different ways: It allows people at all economic levels, and particularly at the top, to keep their own hard-earned money and use it as they see fit. That may mean spending it. It may mean saving it. It may mean investing it. In any of those three scenarios, the money brings more benefit to one and all than it does if the money is transferred to the government. If businesses and wealthy people keep more of their money, they are more inclined to invest it in businesses – hiring more employees, starting new enterprises, expanding operations. After all, it's the rich who tend to hire people. I don't know about you, but I've never been given a job by a poor person. The problem is the rank timing. Republican presidents usually inherit a Democrats f**ked up policies and are left to try and fix them.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #6 October 29, 2004 It pains me to see economic numbers and Clinton in the same sentence. Fact is the markets value and peoples "Paper Value" were great in a bubble economy. The bubble burst and look what happened... Profits were inflated, incomes were inflated, and investment values were inflated. When the bubble burst, people came back to normal. When did the bubble begin to burst??? Oh yeah, on Clintons watch. I don't blame Clinton for the bubble. However, I don't give him credit for a boom in the economy either as the bubble grew. FACT: US unemployment rate is one of the LOWEST in the world. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FinlanderSisu 0 #7 October 29, 2004 I don't know anybody that became rich by spending. Thats what the rhettoric is of Bush's tax cuts. "when people have money they spend money". When you give tax cuts to the top 2% of earners , those are the people by very nature are "accumulaters". Giving business tax cuts over middle and lower class citizens is assinine. Lets give WalMart a 10 billion dollar tax cut to produce jobs. If every wal mart has 20 more employees, Im not going to shop there more, I doubt anybody else will either.Who's going to support those extra jobs with sustained sales? Give the cuts to the "spenders" lower and middle class, demand grows as they spend thereby creating sustainable need for additional employees.. The eriposte link shows Dems vs. Repubs INCLUDING a couple years before and after their policy so saying Repubs are always downwind of dems policys argument is invalid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,463 #8 October 29, 2004 >I don't know about you, but I've never been given a job by a poor person. ?? Nor have I ever been given a job by a rich person. I got a job once from a middle class guy running a sole proprietorship, I got a job from a poor college student trying to start his own business, and I got several jobs from schools, corporations and the government. There seems to be an attitude that if you give a rich guy more money he'll enrich the economy with it. That's silly. If you give Warren Buffet a $2 million tax break he's gonna put it in a CD; he doesn't need any more money. (He's come out and said this, so that's not a guess.) If you give Joe Smith a $100 tax break on his $20,000 a year job, he's going out to replace the brakes on his car. Lower income tax breaks do far more to stimulate the economy than upper income tax breaks - if that's your objective. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #9 October 29, 2004 Unemployment Rate (%) By Nation: Germany - 10.5% France - 9.3% Canada - 7.1% USA - 5.4% Japan - 4.6 ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #10 October 29, 2004 QuoteI don't know anybody that became rich by spending. Thats what the rhettoric is of Bush's tax cuts. "when people have money they spend money". When you give tax cuts to the top 2% of earners , those are the people by very nature are "accumulaters". Giving business tax cuts over middle and lower class citizens is assinine. Lets give WalMart a 10 billion dollar tax cut to produce jobs. If every wal mart has 20 more employees, Im not going to shop there more, I doubt anybody else will either.Who's going to support those extra jobs with sustained sales? Give the cuts to the "spenders" lower and middle class, demand grows as they spend thereby creating sustainable need for additional employees.. The eriposte link shows Dems vs. Repubs INCLUDING a couple years before and after their policy so saying Repubs are always downwind of dems policys argument is invalid That makes no sense... You are trying to imply that "Poor Peaople" drive the economy. They Don't!!! People with large wallets drive the economy, enabling poorer people to work and then spend. Trickle - up economics don't work. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 200 #11 October 29, 2004 QuoteI don't know anybody that became rich by spending. funny...i know alot of people who got rich by "taking a chance" and investing in themselves" Thats what the rhettoric is of Bush's tax cuts. "when people have money they spend money". When you give tax cuts to the top 2% of earners , those are the people by very nature are "accumulaters". Ummm...everyone got a tax cut, not just the rich. Liberals like to spin the numbers to make it look like they got more. Classic "Class Warfare" strategy that just doesn't work anymore. Giving business tax cuts over middle and lower class citizens is assinine. Lets give WalMart a 10 billion dollar tax cut to produce jobs. If every wal mart has 20 more employees, Im not going to shop there more, I doubt anybody else will either.Who's going to support those extra jobs with sustained sales? As opposed to 20 people not having a job? C'mon, you crucify W for job losses that he really has no control over and then find a way to kill him if it does create jobs. Try putting your umbrella away and seeing the sunshine. The job of the government is not to take care of you. That's your responsibility. You'd have us beleive that when I open the paper there isn't a classified section with job postings. There's jobs. Some good, some not. Want a better job, get a better education. The gov't will even give you money for that . Bottom line, it's never been the responsibility of gov't to supply jobs. The free market system and capitalism handles that part if the gov't doesnt get in the way. I could go on and on...Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FinlanderSisu 0 #12 October 29, 2004 Poor people do not drive the economy, Spenders do. The top 2 percent are Accumulaters not spenders. Who spends ,i.e supports business sales, more as a % of their income? There is a reason money is called "circulation" Tax cuts to the top 2% are not circulating, hence driving the economy, but rather "accumulating" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jimbo 0 #13 October 29, 2004 QuotePoor people do not drive the economy, Spenders do. How do you suppose the rich got all that nice stuff? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #14 October 29, 2004 QuoteHow do you suppose the rich got all that nice stuff? By spending a much lower percentage of their income than the average person. You've got 1,000,000 poor people with a dollar each and they have to spend it to live. Then you have a rich guy with $1,000,000 and lives a lot nicer than the poor people, so he spends $5. Who's driviing the economy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FinlanderSisu 0 #15 October 29, 2004 so after they buy all this nice stuff theyre poor right? If Bill gates buys a 10 million dollar yacht thats like me buying a half a stick of gum. Relatively speaking--- thats not spending. The top 2% are accumulaters Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jimbo 0 #16 October 29, 2004 Everybody plays an important role, from the guy making 20K a year to Warren Buffet. The rich spend just like you and I, what isn't spent at the corner market is tied up in investments. Unless the rich have the money burried in coffee cans in the back yard they play an important part in the economic cycle, just like you and I. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,463 #17 October 29, 2004 >You are trying to imply that "Poor Peaople" drive the economy. They > Don't!!! People with large wallets drive the economy . . . The people who drive the economy are the vast majority of middle class america who pump 90% of what they make back into the economy. They make up most of the US and hence most of the economy. People with large wallets buy boats; the 'boat economy' isn't really talked about much on CNN-FN for good reason. Wal-Mart is talked about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #18 October 29, 2004 QuoteUnless the rich have the money burried in coffee cans in the back yard they play an important part in the economic cycle, just like you and I. Or they invest in foreign markets. I'm not rich, but I do. They do even more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,166 #19 October 29, 2004 QuoteUnless the rich have the money burried in coffee cans in the back yard they play an important part in the economic cycle, just like you and I. I don't think anyone's disagreeing with that. It's just that someone who directly spends a significant amount of the money they get in is more likely to spend a significant amount of extra money they get in. Investing another $10,000 in stocks takes a lot longer to trickle down to the everyday folks. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites blueskybug 0 #20 October 29, 2004 it is probably far better if i remain a lurker like usual.. but don't those rich people who bought that boat buy it from someone ? that person makes a living selling boats. people make a living producing boats etc ...i am far from rich and know very few truly rich people but i think the vast majority do not hoard their wealth. imo,,, now back to lurking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,463 #21 October 29, 2004 >but don't those rich people who bought that boat buy it from someone ? Of course. But that's one boat for every - what? - 10,000 washing machines sold? So if you want to employ more people, it's better to increase the number of washing machines sold from 10,000 to 20,000 than to increase the number of boats sold from 1 to 2. And tax cuts to lower income people will sell more washing machines than tax cuts to upper income people will sell boats. Now, that's just the economic approach; there is more to tax policy than that. It's just one factor in the overall tax scheme. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,672 #22 October 29, 2004 Quote>You are trying to imply that "Poor Peaople" drive the economy. They > Don't!!! People with large wallets drive the economy . . . The people who drive the economy are the vast majority of middle class america who pump 90% of what they make back into the economy. They make up most of the US and hence most of the economy. People with large wallets buy boats; the 'boat economy' isn't really talked about much on CNN-FN for good reason. Wal-Mart is talked about. Hey - people who make Mercedes and Rolls Royces and Bentleys and Aston Martins and Ferraris and Maseratis and Lamborghinis need jobs too. (Just not in the USA.) Under this Republican administration: Jobs lost Poverty up Uninsureds up Government spending up Government revenues down Size of government up Health care costs up (real terms) Energy costs up (real terms) Deficit at all time record levels. NO action on Social Security despite Bush's 2000 campaign promise to fix it. And they want four more years!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites blueskybug 0 #23 October 29, 2004 i'm not trying to be smart, i just want to understand. but what exactly is Kerry going to do to improve these things ? i don't really think he is going to reduce the size of gov. how exactly is he personally going to create more jobs ? how will he increase gov revenue without taxing the middle class ? etc etc. could you provide me a link or 2 so i can see it for myself. i am a consertive i guess, but i am not the biggest fan of the current pres. maybe this is more fun than lurking afterall. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,672 #24 October 29, 2004 Quotei'm not trying to be smart, i just want to understand. but what exactly is Kerry going to do to improve these things ? i don't really think he is going to reduce the size of gov. how exactly is he personally going to create more jobs ? how will he increase gov revenue without taxing the middle class ? etc etc. could you provide me a link or 2 so i can see it for myself. i am a consertive i guess, but i am not the biggest fan of the current pres. maybe this is more fun than lurking afterall. There's a very old, tried and true political remedy when an administration performs poorly. It's called "Throw the bums out".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites blueskybug 0 #25 October 29, 2004 some people may also follow the old "the lesser of 2 evils" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
FinlanderSisu 0 #12 October 29, 2004 Poor people do not drive the economy, Spenders do. The top 2 percent are Accumulaters not spenders. Who spends ,i.e supports business sales, more as a % of their income? There is a reason money is called "circulation" Tax cuts to the top 2% are not circulating, hence driving the economy, but rather "accumulating" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #13 October 29, 2004 QuotePoor people do not drive the economy, Spenders do. How do you suppose the rich got all that nice stuff? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #14 October 29, 2004 QuoteHow do you suppose the rich got all that nice stuff? By spending a much lower percentage of their income than the average person. You've got 1,000,000 poor people with a dollar each and they have to spend it to live. Then you have a rich guy with $1,000,000 and lives a lot nicer than the poor people, so he spends $5. Who's driviing the economy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FinlanderSisu 0 #15 October 29, 2004 so after they buy all this nice stuff theyre poor right? If Bill gates buys a 10 million dollar yacht thats like me buying a half a stick of gum. Relatively speaking--- thats not spending. The top 2% are accumulaters Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #16 October 29, 2004 Everybody plays an important role, from the guy making 20K a year to Warren Buffet. The rich spend just like you and I, what isn't spent at the corner market is tied up in investments. Unless the rich have the money burried in coffee cans in the back yard they play an important part in the economic cycle, just like you and I. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,463 #17 October 29, 2004 >You are trying to imply that "Poor Peaople" drive the economy. They > Don't!!! People with large wallets drive the economy . . . The people who drive the economy are the vast majority of middle class america who pump 90% of what they make back into the economy. They make up most of the US and hence most of the economy. People with large wallets buy boats; the 'boat economy' isn't really talked about much on CNN-FN for good reason. Wal-Mart is talked about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #18 October 29, 2004 QuoteUnless the rich have the money burried in coffee cans in the back yard they play an important part in the economic cycle, just like you and I. Or they invest in foreign markets. I'm not rich, but I do. They do even more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,166 #19 October 29, 2004 QuoteUnless the rich have the money burried in coffee cans in the back yard they play an important part in the economic cycle, just like you and I. I don't think anyone's disagreeing with that. It's just that someone who directly spends a significant amount of the money they get in is more likely to spend a significant amount of extra money they get in. Investing another $10,000 in stocks takes a lot longer to trickle down to the everyday folks. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blueskybug 0 #20 October 29, 2004 it is probably far better if i remain a lurker like usual.. but don't those rich people who bought that boat buy it from someone ? that person makes a living selling boats. people make a living producing boats etc ...i am far from rich and know very few truly rich people but i think the vast majority do not hoard their wealth. imo,,, now back to lurking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,463 #21 October 29, 2004 >but don't those rich people who bought that boat buy it from someone ? Of course. But that's one boat for every - what? - 10,000 washing machines sold? So if you want to employ more people, it's better to increase the number of washing machines sold from 10,000 to 20,000 than to increase the number of boats sold from 1 to 2. And tax cuts to lower income people will sell more washing machines than tax cuts to upper income people will sell boats. Now, that's just the economic approach; there is more to tax policy than that. It's just one factor in the overall tax scheme. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,672 #22 October 29, 2004 Quote>You are trying to imply that "Poor Peaople" drive the economy. They > Don't!!! People with large wallets drive the economy . . . The people who drive the economy are the vast majority of middle class america who pump 90% of what they make back into the economy. They make up most of the US and hence most of the economy. People with large wallets buy boats; the 'boat economy' isn't really talked about much on CNN-FN for good reason. Wal-Mart is talked about. Hey - people who make Mercedes and Rolls Royces and Bentleys and Aston Martins and Ferraris and Maseratis and Lamborghinis need jobs too. (Just not in the USA.) Under this Republican administration: Jobs lost Poverty up Uninsureds up Government spending up Government revenues down Size of government up Health care costs up (real terms) Energy costs up (real terms) Deficit at all time record levels. NO action on Social Security despite Bush's 2000 campaign promise to fix it. And they want four more years!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blueskybug 0 #23 October 29, 2004 i'm not trying to be smart, i just want to understand. but what exactly is Kerry going to do to improve these things ? i don't really think he is going to reduce the size of gov. how exactly is he personally going to create more jobs ? how will he increase gov revenue without taxing the middle class ? etc etc. could you provide me a link or 2 so i can see it for myself. i am a consertive i guess, but i am not the biggest fan of the current pres. maybe this is more fun than lurking afterall. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,672 #24 October 29, 2004 Quotei'm not trying to be smart, i just want to understand. but what exactly is Kerry going to do to improve these things ? i don't really think he is going to reduce the size of gov. how exactly is he personally going to create more jobs ? how will he increase gov revenue without taxing the middle class ? etc etc. could you provide me a link or 2 so i can see it for myself. i am a consertive i guess, but i am not the biggest fan of the current pres. maybe this is more fun than lurking afterall. There's a very old, tried and true political remedy when an administration performs poorly. It's called "Throw the bums out".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites blueskybug 0 #25 October 29, 2004 some people may also follow the old "the lesser of 2 evils" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
kallend 1,672 #24 October 29, 2004 Quotei'm not trying to be smart, i just want to understand. but what exactly is Kerry going to do to improve these things ? i don't really think he is going to reduce the size of gov. how exactly is he personally going to create more jobs ? how will he increase gov revenue without taxing the middle class ? etc etc. could you provide me a link or 2 so i can see it for myself. i am a consertive i guess, but i am not the biggest fan of the current pres. maybe this is more fun than lurking afterall. There's a very old, tried and true political remedy when an administration performs poorly. It's called "Throw the bums out".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blueskybug 0 #25 October 29, 2004 some people may also follow the old "the lesser of 2 evils" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
