News from Gun-Free England

[JohnRich 4]

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Mr. John Rich still is giving his very best to convince the poor, ignorant non-Americans: Gun ownership to everybody! This is ultimate answer to turn the world into a peaceful place.

I don't think that the non-Americans reading your message will appreciate you characterizing them all as "poor" and "ignorant".

[christelsabine 1]

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I don't think that the non-Americans reading your message will appreciate you characterizing them all as "poor" and "ignorant"

Nice try.

They will understand the real meaning of that, believe me.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Newbie 0]

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on a crime by crime basis, what we tend to see is a far higher insidence of violent, mindless crime in the US than we do here in the UK.

London Telegraph:

Guns blow a hole in the argument

THERE was much indignation yesterday about the claim by CBS News that Britain is riddled with crime. Believe it or not, Dan Rather is right.

There are many more burglaries and thefts in Britain than America and, "contact" crime is higher. This includes assaults, robberies and rapes. The 1996 victimisation survey, conducted before big falls in American crime, showed the risk of contact crime as higher in England and Wales than anywhere else. The main reason for a much lower burglary rate in America is householders' propensity to shoot intruders. They do so without fear of being dragged before courts and jailed for life. The most recent crime statistics from Britain show that in 1998 there were 963 offences of violence against the person for every 100,000 people, while in America the rate was 566. The trend in America is down while in Britain, it is up - violent crime has risen more than 10 per cent.

Source Article

John you need to read what these articles say before you post them up. Quoting directly from the article listed as source:

"Statistics can mask reality. Robberies in America are much more likely to be at gunpoint, which is one reason why the murder rate is much higher."

"If American tourists coming to Britain are frightened of being murdered, a rare crime in any case, it is much less likely to happen in London than in any American city."

"The trend in America is down while in Britain, as the latest crime figures will show next month, it is up. Violent crime has risen more than 10 per cent. Despite recent big falls in American murders, the rate remains the biggest difference between the two countries. Murder is the most likely cause of death in young men, who are 50 times more likely to be killed in Washington than in London, mainly because guns are so easy to obtain."

Once again, my opinion is that while these instances are rare on both sides, we might be more in danger in being shoved or pushed, getting into a drunken brawl, or having a car window smashed over here. You are more likely to be shot over there.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Newbie 0]

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look at NYC as an example of the good stuff that can happen

OK, ok, ok, just need to get this laughing under control.

Whew, ok.

Um, no. NYC is a good example of how big brother can happen. Their crime rates (city and state) have not been doing anything wonderful. Many other areas (with far fewer cops per capita) have done much better in reducing their crime rates.

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All i'm saying is that, on a crime by crime basis, what we tend to see is a far higher insidence of violent, mindless crime in the US than we do here in the UK. This is speaking from experience (26+ years living in London, approx 2 years living in Nor California a couple of years back).

Understood.

All I'm saying is if things keep going the way they are right now, you won't be able to say that in five or ten years.

And your experience is underwhelming. Two whole yeras, huh?

how can you say that the NYC crime rates have not "done anything wonderful"?

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/pdf/chfdept/cscity.pdf
If you look at the 11 year change, and aren't amazed that murders are down over 71%, rape is down over 40% in the same period ('93-'04) well then i don't know what else i can say to you.
You say it's big brother taking over, and i have a girlfriend from NYC who states none of her rights have been infringed, but she now feels safer than she ever did in her city. Personally i don't care if they crack down hard on things to get those kind of results, if honest and law abiding people from the city are enjoying a safer and better quality of life, then what's the problem there? I would have thought you would have been all in favour of more power to the law abiding, hard working citizen?

PS regarding my underwhelming experience of living over there, remind me how long you have lived over here again?

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Kennedy 0]

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You say it's big brother taking over, and i have a girlfriend from NYC who states none of her rights have been infringed, but she now feels safer than she ever did in her city. Personally i don't care if they crack down hard on things to get those kind of results, if honest and law abiding people from the city are enjoying a safer and better quality of life, then what's the problem there?

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Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

So speaks a man whose opinion I value.

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regarding my underwhelming experience of living over there, remind me how long you have lived over here again?

Did I claim firsthand expertise on the UK? However, I did spend three months there.

I'm sorry, I really don't want to laugh at you, but look closely at the statistics you linked to. They are for one week's worth of cimes. That 71% changes you mentioned? That's because "only" eight murders happened that week. For reference, that's a 33% change from last year. Do you think murders will be down 33% from last year for the whole year? Neither do I.
Do you still think murders are down 71% in 11 years?

I'm also thinking 1993 was a particularly bad year, and so any comparison to that year alone will come out favorably. Looking at trends, rather than cherry picked numbers, is much more illuminating.

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Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[JohnRich 4]

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my opinion is that while these instances are rare on both sides, we might be more in danger in being shoved or pushed, getting into a drunken brawl, or having a car window smashed over here. You are more likely to be shot over there.

Yes, America has a higher murder rate than England. But look at the trends in relation to the subject of this thread: guns. In the U.S., where we have more guns than ever, murder has gone down 12 years in a row, to the lowest level in decades. In England, the murder rate has risen dramatically, even though all the handguns and semi-auto long guns were confiscated.

My point is not which place is safest from murder. My point is that the murder rate has no relationship to the number of guns in society.

And England does have a higher violent crime rate than America, which includes things like assault, rape and robbery.

[shropshire 0]

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even though all the handguns and semi-auto long guns were confiscated.

No, sorry John but not ALL ... in fact is was, in the main, the legally held weapons (sorry if that's too imotive a word!) that were confiscated, the villians, god bless them, still pretended like they didn't have any.... but surely they wouldn't tell porkies?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Kennedy 0]

The man makes a good point, John. After all, how often to we tell people that the fact of the matter is gun control doesn't affect the criminals?

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Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[fab777 0]

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And England does have a higher violent crime rate than America, which includes things like assault, rape and robbery.

Margaret Thatcher...

Fabien
BASE#944

[Kennedy 0]

huh?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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