Zennie 0 #26 July 31, 2004 QuoteUm, 'scuse me? Surely you jest. Rebecca!!! **hug** Welcome to the flame fest! Hope ya have your asbestos undies on. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbarry 0 #27 July 31, 2004 QuoteRefuse away. You live in Texas; ...you can safely vote for whomever you wish for President knowing it doesn't matter in the least. Wendy W. Agreed. As an California Republican, I can join my 10+million brothers and sisters and vote for whomever I wish too (aka. tossing in my 'throw away' vote). The electoral college system protects small population states and rural areas nicely. It does nothing for 10 million righties on the left coast. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #28 August 2, 2004 QuoteQuoteUm, 'scuse me? Surely you jest. Rebecca!!! **hug** Welcome to the flame fest! Hope ya have your asbestos undies on. Mwahahahaa!!! *HUG!* No worries, I'm not controversial enough, and I can generally see most people's POV. And I have a flame-proof shield. So, no reply from the "good guy"? What, are ya skeered? you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #29 August 2, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteUm, 'scuse me? Surely you jest. Rebecca!!! **hug** Welcome to the flame fest! Hope ya have your asbestos undies on. Mwahahahaa!!! *HUG!* No worries, I'm not controversial enough, and I can generally see most people's POV. And I have a flame-proof shield. So, no reply from the "good guy"? What, are ya skeered? I was going to reply but I thought it was old news. Anyway here goes. There are good guys and bad guys. GWB is one of the good guys who is trying to make this a safer nation, meanwhile keeping it prosperous. Kerry is a bad guy who probably doesn't believe the crap he spews but doesn't care because he's got a rich wife. So his future is at no risk regardless. His policies are decietful and only stand a chance if enough people are fooled by his rehtoric and don't read the fine print, he is a bad guy. Now there are good guys/gals who will vote for him. I know some of them. They simply have a problem looking at the entire picture and seeing that left wing ideology is inherently bad.If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #30 August 2, 2004 from anyside of the political fence you have some serious definition issues in your use of the relatives 'good' and 'bad' .... and your mistaking a single point perspective for the 'entire picture'. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #31 August 2, 2004 Yeah, I'm with Zenister here. It's illogical to think in such absolute terms. They're both 'bad' and 'good' any way you slice it. You think Bush doesn't have a vested interest in the policies he's enacted? You think this nation is being kept prosperous under his presidency? (Before Bush, largest budget surplus ever; after Bush, largest budget deficit ever... hmmmm) You think he's not a rich guy who'll be rich regardless of whether he wins? And why is left-wing ideology any worse than right-wing ideology? Or any ideology that's skewed in one direction or another. Besides, I thought Kerry was a centrist... am I wrong? I'm not missing the big picture: we're in deep shit. you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #32 August 2, 2004 QuoteI thought Kerry was a centrist... am I wrong? Yes, you are (IMO). If there is one thing missing from this election, it is a centrist. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #33 August 2, 2004 That's cool. Maybe I misused the word. I thought he was not exactly far-left (which I suppose you can't be when running for office...), but closer to center? I don't know. I just keep having the horrible feeling that either way, Bush or Kerry, we're screwed. you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #34 August 2, 2004 QuoteYeah, I'm with Zenister here. It's illogical to think in such absolute terms. They're both 'bad' and 'good' any way you slice it. You think Bush doesn't have a vested interest in the policies he's enacted? You think this nation is being kept prosperous under his presidency? (Before Bush, largest budget surplus ever; after Bush, largest budget deficit ever... hmmmm) You think he's not a rich guy who'll be rich regardless of whether he wins? And why is left-wing ideology any worse than right-wing ideology? Or any ideology that's skewed in one direction or another. Besides, I thought Kerry was a centrist... am I wrong? I'm not missing the big picture: we're in deep shit.Kerry a centrist. Yes that is about as wrong as you can be. He is ranked the MOST liberal senator. I guess if you can look at a blue sky and tell me that its my opinion that its blue and that somebody else's opinion that its red is valid, then you can state a case that left wing ideology is not wrong. Otherwise I will just point to the failure in the Soviet Union, the entire Eastern block, Cuba, North Korea or anywhere that has been plagued with left wing ideology. If you had any exposure to these places you would quickly see that they sound the same as the American left. {We want to take from the Rich to give to the poor, Don't the rich have enough money?, they can afford to pay higher taxes, elect me and I will end poverty} All these promises are what the left feeds on. Some people truly believe this stuff. But the one's who see the entire picture understand that its failure this has been in every single instance it has been tried and always will be. As for comparing the state of the nation's prosperity there are a lot of things to take into account. First of all, in a great portion of Clinton's early years he was enjoying George Bush Senior economic policies taking effect, not to mention the internet boom that was taking place. Also after 1994 he had a Republican take over of Congress in both houses that pretty much tied his hands and kept him from further harming the country. He tried to destroy the health care system but the word got out of the scam it was and luckily it didn't happen. Now back to Bush Jr. Do I really need to explain the harm that 9/11 has caused to American industry? The amount of jobs that were lost because of this? Do I really need to explain how expensive it was to go to Afganistan and Iraq? I think its just a question of wether or not you think it worth protecting American lives from further attacks like 9/11. I think it is. And I won't give into the silly liberal games trying to spin around in a big circle under the premise that Iraq and 9/11 had no connection. Radical Islamists are the connection and there is plenty of evidence Saddam Hussein had many meetings with Al Queda. Oh I know the answer from the left. Just because they met before 9/11 does not mean that they are together. Just because Saddam Hussein offered $25,000 to the family of a suicide bomber doesn't mean he supported that. yeah ok.If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #35 August 2, 2004 Easy there... I do see your point, believe me, I just take issue with the good guys/ bad guys position. I don't think you can categorically call Kerry a bad guy any more than you can call Bush a good guy. They're on different sides, both of which have pros and cons. Do you think Bush has done an outstanding job, and do you think he's the best man for the job (not just Bush vs Kerry, but Bush vs anyone)? I'm not a liberal, I'm a republican as a matter of fact. I'm just not convinced that Bush is the right guy. you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #36 August 2, 2004 QuoteI'm not a liberal, I'm a republican as a matter of fact. I'm just not convinced that Bush is the right guy. There are Republicans who share your POV (maybe not here, but I personally know of a few). - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #37 August 2, 2004 QuoteQuoteI'm not a liberal, I'm a republican as a matter of fact. I'm just not convinced that Bush is the right guy. There are Republicans who share your POV (maybe not here, but I personally know of a few). I know. I think it's kinda funny. And kinda sad. Did that happen in the last election? Or any election? (not trying to make a point, I honestly don't know) Sigh. I said it before, I'll say it again. Politics suck ass. you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #38 August 2, 2004 Quotedo you think he's the best man for the job Of the people up for election, yes... I think he needs to change some of his cabinet out... SecDef, and SecJus... but IMO he is the "better of evils" JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #39 August 2, 2004 QuoteDid that happen in the last election? Or any election? It happend in '92, with Ross P., He drew otherwise conservative voters away from Bush (41), giving Clinton the win. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,149 #40 August 2, 2004 He didn't only pull conservative voters away from GHWB. I voted for him, and know a number of other normally-Democrats who did. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #41 August 2, 2004 QuoteQuotedo you think he's the best man for the job QuoteOf the people up for election, yes... Do you think he's done a good job so far? Not 'not bad', but good? QuoteI think he needs to change some of his cabinet out... SecDef, and SecJus... Agreed. Quotebut IMO he is the "better of evils" Which goes back to the good guy/bad guy thing. If anything, they're both bad... you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdweller 0 #42 August 2, 2004 But he did pull more votes from the consevative side, causing an overall positive swing for Clinton.------------------------------------------------------ "From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #43 August 2, 2004 QuoteBut he did pull more votes from the consevative side, causing an overall positive swing for Clinton. Most of the reforms that Perot advocated were of a more conservative nature than liberal. Campaign finance reform, tax code reform, etc. He may have pulled in some moderate to conservative Democrats, but I think he mainly pulled away moderate Republicans. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #44 August 2, 2004 QuoteDo you think he's done a good job so far? Not 'not bad', but good? In general, I think he could be doing a better job, particularly in chosing whom he takes cousil from, and articulating the case for Iraq... I don't think Left and Lefter are the answer, and while I hold a number of Libritarian views, their platform is not based in reality. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #45 August 2, 2004 Quotenormally-Democrats Notice I did not say Republicans... I said conservative... The majority (not all) of those that voted for Perot, would likely have voted for Bush. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdweller 0 #46 August 2, 2004 I should have used the word Republican instead of "conservative side". ------------------------------------------------------ "From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #47 August 2, 2004 QuoteThat's cool. Maybe I misused the word. I thought he was not exactly far-left (which I suppose you can't be when running for office...), but closer to center? Nah, you used the word correctly, it's just that Kerry doesn't fit the definition. He is about as much a centrist as the Dalai Lama is a war monger. (see rep/dem, liberal/conservative, etc rankings of senate) QuoteI don't know. I just keep having the horrible feeling that either way, Bush or Kerry, we're screwed. Now you're on the right track. What was that line about lions and tigers...?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #48 August 2, 2004 I'll agree that Kerry is further left than Bush is right. However when looking at the 4 directional political compass (left right being economics, up down being social issues), Bush is way further up (authoritarian) than Kerry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #49 August 2, 2004 Two sides, One coin, No cash value. edit: it would be nice if somebody came up with a 2D scale for intervention, with the X axis being domestically and the Y axis being foreign. or even better, the X axis being individuals and the Y axis being how much they interfere with businesses... yeah, that would be a good scale.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #50 August 2, 2004 QuoteEasy there... I do see your point, believe me, I just take issue with the good guys/ bad guys position. I don't think you can categorically call Kerry a bad guy any more than you can call Bush a good guy. They're on different sides, both of which have pros and cons. Do you think Bush has done an outstanding job, and do you think he's the best man for the job (not just Bush vs Kerry, but Bush vs anyone)? I'm not a liberal, I'm a republican as a matter of fact. I'm just not convinced that Bush is the right guy. I think Bush is the best guy that can get elected right now. I don't think he is as good as a communicator as Reagan was. I don't know how Reagan did it but he was able to fend off the attacks from the left and still get his mission accomplished. I heard a rumour that Giuliani might run as Bush's VP if Chenney was to step down (or be declared unfit because of health reasons. I think Giuliani would be great to have as president in 2008. Perhaps he may do a better job handling the left, that is what I think.If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
