lawrocket 3 #1 July 7, 2004 I read this quote last night: Quote"The world's greatest men have not commonly been great scholars nor it's great scholars, great men." It was late at night, and I started thinking about this. What great men have been scholars? Woodrow Wilson was a great scholar. Whether he was "a great man" is controversial, but I tend to think he is. Robert Reich is a great scholar. I don't count him among the "great men." Still, Ronald Reagan I count as a "great man." I find nobody greater in the 20th century (my opinion) than Winston Churchill. Why are not scholars generally considered great men? Pasteur was. Einstein certainly revolutionized the world. Socrates and Plato and Aristotle were scholars and were great. So was Thomas Aquinas. Who else is on that list - great and scholars? Who were the great dunces? Who were the fantastic scholars who were not great? Why? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #2 July 7, 2004 QuoteWhy are not scholars generally considered great men? Scholars tend to be more philosophical than realistic. The "ivory tower" image. Realists are the people who accomplish things in the real world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #3 July 7, 2004 >Scholars tend to be more philosophical than realistic. The "ivory tower" >image. Realists are the people who accomplish things in the real world. Yes and no. Gauss, Faraday, Maxwell, Hooke, van Leewenhoek, Curie, Bernoulli, Darwin, Einstein - all pretty academic people, but had an enormous impact upon the real world. Can't get much more real than an electric motor or a 747 or an atomic bomb. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #4 July 7, 2004 Thomas Jefferson was a scholar and a politician, but a great man, that's been debated. He was important and influential though, no one can deny that.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #5 July 7, 2004 I wouldn't say they weren't realists. (it's hard to figure out how things work in the real world if you're dreaming about somewhere else) Your lists includes men responsible for discovering or inventing many things that our society wouldn't be here without. They were great scientists, but does that make them great men?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #6 July 7, 2004 So what makes a great man? -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #7 July 7, 2004 QuoteA great man is defined by great enemies and great struggles... Difficult question. What would you say defines a great man? And do you work towards being one each day?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #8 July 7, 2004 >They were great scientists, but does that make them great men? Depends. Does "great" mean having the courage of their convictions? If so, people like Giordano Bruno are arguably among the greatest of men, but he wasn't very famous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #9 July 7, 2004 In the end, I think, history defines you as a great man or not. In this case, I must say that yes, a great scientist is a great man. Especially Gauss, holy crap batman was that guy smart -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #10 July 7, 2004 Well, history is written by the victors.... I'm trying to figure out exactly what he believe that led him to be burned at the stake by the inquisition. (the fact that he was tricked into arrest, rather than in a struggle, and that he recanted at least once, speak out against his potential, but are hardly decisive on their own)witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mardigrasbob 0 #11 July 7, 2004 QuoteIn the end, I think, history defines you as a great man or not. In this case, I must say that yes, a great scientist is a great man. Especially Gauss, holy crap batman was that guy smart And what a magnetic personality. Great men are created, great intellects are born! We all have the potential to be great! Very few have the potential to be wise! ----- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #12 July 7, 2004 Quote ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The world's greatest men have not commonly been great scholars nor it's great scholars, great men." which all goes to prove: just because a quotation is famous or classic, does not mean it is true. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #13 July 7, 2004 Well, I dont know about famous or classic, but your sig line quote is certainly true. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #14 July 7, 2004 Most interesting. I'd say there are exeptions to this rule, but that it is yet another generalism one might make. I know of no general rule of thumb that doesn't have exceptions. Ben Franklin was both a great scholar and a great man. Thomas Jefferson would qualify as well. One might also say that El Jefe Clintonista was both a great scholar and a great man from a certain point of view. Henry Kissinger, Rommel, Raeder, Doenitz, Robert E. Lee - all were/are quite well educated and considered great by many. Great scholars necessarily - no. Good scholars of the fields they chose to study - absolutely. I think that the time investment required to become a great scholar is such that becoming great - by the definition of the general populace at any rate - is precluded by one's own mortality. Random thoughts from a JACKASS. Interesting topic of discussion. Can't wait to see how this thread unfolds. Vinny te AnvilVinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #15 July 7, 2004 Same goes for successful business men. Saw an article here in Australia where the majority of the most successful entrepreneurs never had an academic education or even left school early...--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gmanpilot 0 #16 July 7, 2004 IMO, the greatest of men are those who if they had not lived, the world would be a worse place for many, many people. The inventors, scientists, and military leaders were great contributors, but if they had not lived, someone else would have figured it out. The greats include Jefferson, Lincoln, Churchill, Reagan & Gorbechev, Walesa, Mandela, MLK, Roosevelt, etc. I'm trying to think of the last time the world had a leader of that caliber._________________________________________ -There's always free cheese in a mouse trap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #17 July 7, 2004 Why? I think Carter was a great man, although he didn't make a very good president. OTOH Reagan was not as great a man, but made a better president. The greatness of a person is not solely dictated by their performance in their jobs (i.e. I hope no one judges John Glenn purely by his record as a senator.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #18 July 7, 2004 Well, what makes John Glenn a greater man that Alan Shepard or Gordo Cooper? I did not think that Carter was a great man. I think he had a doctorate in Nuclear (or, "Nukular" as he called it) Physics, didn't he? I'd say Galileo was a great man. Newton - he certainly qualifies, in my book. Well educated and the founder of a new way of thought that made today's technologies possible. I think a great man is one who leaves an everlasting positive impression on the world. Carter continues to have a greater effect after his presidency. The same could be said of Nixon - like Carter, he assumed the "elder statesman" role. Carter could have been a great man, but did not meet his fullest potential when he had the greatest chance. Personally, I give great credit to the academics. I like the greatness of those who toil in obscurity and make advancements that improve the lives of everyone. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #19 July 7, 2004 So what about John Lennon, for instance? Or Dostoevsky? They left a lasting positive impression. Both qualify, I think. Or Michelangelo. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #20 July 7, 2004 Why did you list them as greats? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #21 July 8, 2004 They had a positive lasting influence on the world around them and were definitely great in their work. The discussion is rather futile since we have no definition of "great man". My post was mostly a question on whether artists are great men/women as well. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #22 July 8, 2004 Oh it would take a twisted point of view to describe The Great Prevaricator as 'great', but looking at where he came from and where he managed to get himself, you can't help but be impressed. Even me, who hold the man in utter contempt due to many of his actions and most of his political beliefs. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #23 July 8, 2004 This is the type of discussion that ends up in a semantic quagmire. It's a bit like a trainwreck...lots of fun to watch. FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #24 July 8, 2004 Clausewitz? Sun Tzu? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
