Prison population and the war on drugs

[PhillyKev 0]

Just thought this was an interesting graphic. Notice the radical change occurs just about when the war on drugs is declared.

From the Cato institute.

http://www.cato.org/dailys/02-23-00.html

[PhillyKev 0]

Hey...I aint' that dum after all. I hadn't read the article before posting this, just saw the graphic and thought of that. Turns out that's what the article is about.

[Trent 0]

People should stop buying and selling drugs then... it's getting expensive to house them.

Oh, hello again!

[PhillyKev 0]

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People should stop buying and selling drugs then... it's getting expensive to house them.

That tactic has proven its usefullness.

[beowulf 1]

As long as there is a demand for a product, then there will always be someone willing to meet that demand.

There is no good solution to the drug problem.
The most effective was what China did to curb the opium use. Kill anyone and everyone associated with its use and sale. Not a viable option in the U.S.

[Trent 0]

FREE THE DRUG DEALERS!! IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT!!

edit: Yeah, I'm being obtuse. Those are interesting stats regardless.

Oh, hello again!

[PhillyKev 0]

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FREE THE DRUG DEALERS!! IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT!!

That's pretty accurate. If people didn't buy them, there wouldn't be dealers. But you're never going to stop people from buying them. Jailing people for drug use and sale has done absolutely zero to reduce the use of drugs. What's the point?

[kelpdiver 2]

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Just thought this was an interesting graphic. Notice the radical change occurs just about when the war on drugs is declared.

From the Cato institute.

http://www.cato.org/dailys/02-23-00.html

The article doesn't note the role of 3 Strikes legislation, which is another big component of the spike in prison counts during the 90s. Many states, including CA, take a pretty aggressive stance and will use fairly minor crimes as 3rd strikes.

[mardigrasbob 0]

As a person experienced in both prison and drugs; let me say that drugs should be illegal, persons involved their distibution should face significant punishment if convicted, and that the use of drugs is a social/medical problem.
If the penalty for sales were harsh enough and the penal system was consistant, the number of dealers and all criminals would decrease tremendously. Most dealers are not stupid when it comes to the law. Most know the legal system better than the lawyers.
Right now prisons are training grounds for young gladiators. Long sentences would put an end to youngsters going in for a few months and coming out with a whole new skill set.
Sure education and jobs are the key. Many old dope friends have quit because of fear of losing their jobs.
It is still a matter of personal choice. If you want to use drugs go ahead; but if you want to profit off of it, you should be aware that you are a criminal and will face the same penalty as a thief or other scumbag.
Bootcamp and job training for first-time screwups is the right idea, just like 3-strikes for career criminals.
An intelligent look at the prisons is a good policy but don't feel sorry, most belong there and the public is safer for it

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[benny 0]

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As a person experienced in both prison and alcohol; let me say that alcohol should be illegal, persons involved their distibution should face significant punishment if convicted, and that the use of alcohol is a social/medical problem.
If the penalty for sales were harsh enough and the penal system was consistant, the number of dealers and all criminals would decrease tremendously. Most dealers are not stupid when it comes to the law. Most know the legal system better than the lawyers.
Right now prisons are training grounds for young gladiators. Long sentences would put an end to youngsters going in for a few months and coming out with a whole new skill set.
Sure education and jobs are the key. Many old alcoholic friends have quit because of fear of losing their jobs.
It is still a matter of personal choice. If you want to use alcohol go ahead; but if you want to profit off of it, you should be aware that you are a criminal and will face the same penalty as a thief or other scumbag.
Bootcamp and job training for first-time screwups is the right idea, just like 3-strikes for career criminals.
An intelligent look at the prisons is a good policy but don't feel sorry, most belong there and the public is safer for it

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Ok, so I've replaced one word with another word, all those in bold, how does this statement sound to you now bob?

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[PhillyKev 0]

I'm curious, did you read the article? If we increase the penalty for drugs, where do we put the prisoners? Also, what impact has the 1.2 million drug offenders in prison had on making the public safer?

[mardigrasbob 0]

Yes I read it, and don't disagree.
Build more prisons, hire more guards and parole officers.
Drug use is non-violent and should be handled by fines and structured social progams, but persons involved in production, importation, distibution and sales should do hard time(5yrs min.)
Persons involved in crimes to support their lifestyle should be not coddled but imprisoned just the same.
Once criminals get the word that playtime is over; we can reverse this trend of prison overcrowding.

[mailin 0]

It's time to re-legalize drugs and let people take responsibility for themselves. Drug abuse is a tragedy and a sickness. Criminal laws only drive the problem underground and put money in the pockets of the criminal class. With drugs legal, compassionate people could do more to educate and rehabilitate drug users who seek help. Drugs should be legal. Individuals have the right to decide for themselves what to put in their bodies, so long as they take responsibility for their actions.

Jen

Arianna Frances

[happythoughts 0]

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Drug use is non-violent and should be handled by fines and structured social progams, but persons involved in production, importation, distibution and sales should do hard time(5yrs min.)

Sure, but it's been years now, the Kennedys are in politics today.

The reason that people steal to support drug habits is that they are expensive. The reason that they are expensive is that they are illegal.

btw, do you equate all drug use? Is it really necessary to have possession of pot a felony? Is this a major threat to society that warrants a year in jail?

A lot of casual drug users function in society on the same level as casual alchohol users. Possession of a case of beer isn't two years in jail though.

[mardigrasbob 0]

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It's time to re-legalize drugs and let people take responsibility for themselves. Drug abuse is a tragedy and a sickness. Criminal laws only drive the problem underground and put money in the pockets of the criminal class. With drugs legal, compassionate people could do more to educate and rehabilitate drug users who seek help. Drugs should be legal. Individuals have the right to decide for themselves what to put in their bodies, so long as they take responsibility for their actions.

Jen

Who is going to bury all the bodies!?
Drugs legal!? What -billboards, T.V. commericials, baseball statiums, B.C. Bud towers?
Addicts lose their free will, and it is society's responsibility to protect them.
Prison has saved addicts lives by incarcerating them.

[PhillyKev 0]

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What -billboards, T.V. commericials, baseball statiums, B.C. Bud towers?

They have all those for alcohol, tobacco, and prescription drugs.

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it is society's responsibility to protect them

Good point. We should ban skydiving too. People die from that shit.

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Prison has saved addicts lives by incarcerating them.

I'm willing to bet that if the money used to incarcerate drug users was used for prevention, education and treatment, more lives would be saved.

[benny 0]

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Who is going to bury all the bodies!?
Drugs legal!? What -billboards, T.V. commericials, baseball statiums, B.C. Bud towers?
Addicts lose their free will, and it is society's responsibility to protect them.
Prison has saved addicts lives by incarcerating them.

Man, you have a really warped view of drugs. What, did your mom OD shootin up heroine right before your eyes? Not all drugs kill people, hell, some save people. Alcohol is a drug, as is prozac and a variety of other things. Some doctors even attest to beneficial attributes of marijuana.

So where are all these bodies coming from that you speak of burying? I know they are not from pot ODs, I can guarantee you alcohol has killed man more people than pot. And as far as other harder things are concerned, decriminilization and the resulting industrialization of the trade would simply lead to safer product.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[freeflybella 0]

Americans feel safer when 'criminals' are put in jail.

Politicians get votes when 'criminals' are put in jail.

Private corporations that run prisons get rich when 'criminals' are put in jail.


What's not to understand?

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[beowulf 1]

If Cocaine were to be made legal I know more then a few people that would be using it on a regular basis and would most likely end up losing control of their habit. ie spending everything they have on Cocaine.

[mardigrasbob 0]

You are 100% correct!

The users and future users who want help should be able to receive it.
But if skydivers robbed and stole to pay for a slot or if 50,000 skydivers died every year and took their families with them, would you feel different.
It's not the drugs, it the social ills that drugs cause.
Addicts, like alcoholics are difficult to help and many don't want it.
The distinction between the victim and the predator needs to be made. Most dealers are not users; but business people; if the cost of doing business is too high, they will find another line of work.
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[mailin 0]

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Most dealers are not users; but business people; if the cost of doing business is too high, they will find another line of work.

Exactly.... you seem to see it slightly twisted though. If drugs were legal then the necessity for 'dealers' wouldn't be there - thus, the criminal aspect of drug use/abuse would be irradicated.

As I had posted:

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Criminal laws only drive the problem underground and put money in the pockets of the criminal class.

edit to add:

I think you should have more faith that people know what is best for them and their families. I have never thought it approrpriate that the gov. tell me what I should or shouldn't do - think of all that they HAVEN'T told us that has affected us adversly (Agent Orange use in the Vietnam War comes to mind). So why would I think that the gov regulating drugs would be good for me? Its OBVIOUSLY not working now. Leave the people to decide! I know drugs are bad for me, and I won't do them because I know they're bad, and I trust that the general population knows also - don't you?

Jen

Arianna Frances

[kelpdiver 2]

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Who is going to bury all the bodies!?
Drugs legal!? What -billboards, T.V. commericials, baseball statiums, B.C. Bud towers?
Addicts lose their free will, and it is society's responsibility to protect them.
Prison has saved addicts lives by incarcerating them.

A few posts higher you say prison is a training ground for young gladiators, now you're saying it's saving their lives? I do know it's costing us good money, and the overcrowding is leading to REAL (imo) criminals getting out sooner.

Alcohol and particularly nicotine kill so many more people. And we do have restrictions on where and how these products are advertized. Then we let people pick their vices. This isn't China.

Were we to legalize pot and E - not sure if anything goes is a good idea - the usage rate and abuse rate would increase, but the death rates to these drugs is far more related to the distribution channel than the actual usage. California could tax its number one cash crop. And in sticking with our tradition of blues laws, the users will be required to smoke their weed in private. Open beverage type laws could be left in effect, and enforced just as strictly as the community wishes.

We've tried the other way without success.

[happythoughts 0]

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If Cocaine were to be made legal I know more then a few people that would be using it on a regular basis and would most likely end up losing control of their habit. ie spending everything they have on Cocaine.

I do not advocate it's use, it's a bad idea.

However, if C was legal, the price would drop to a level probably lower than the price of a pack of cigarettes. Theft would not be necessary.

The converse, if cigs were made illegal and a pack cost $200... I know a lot of people who would have a problem with the cost of their current addiction.

[PhillyKev 0]

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If drugs were legal then the necessity for 'dealers' wouldn't be there - thus, the criminal aspect of drug use/abuse would be irradicated.

Not to mention one of the more popular anti-drug slogans these days, the money from illegal drugs going to terrorists.

The war on drugs costs about 20 billion a year, just in federal funds. About another 40 billioni spent by the states. The average drug treatment program costs $1400.

That's 42 MILLION people that could receive drug treatment EACH YEAR if the money was used there instead.

And as far as families being torn up because of drugs, how does sending the abuser to prison alleviate that?

[mardigrasbob 0]

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I trust that the general population knows also - don't you?

No!!

Don't get me wrong. Weed is no worse than booze and certainly better than cigs. Most places, personal weed possession is a ticket. I don't advocate arresting potheads at all. Reefer is basically harmless, but coke, crank, smack and pharmaceuticals must be highly regulated. People profiting off of the weakness of others(i.e. dealers) should be jailed.