GentleTiger 0 #1 March 1, 2004 Hi, I've fallen in love with skydiving and was wondering if anyone had any insights as to how I might protect my knee in landings? I'm currently looking at docile canopies with a shallow glide, suggestions on canopies would be appreciated too. Thanx in advance. Big Blues, Tiger________________________________________ Look, up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's a tiger in the sky!! Throw down some steaks and run for the hills!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 March 1, 2004 Ahhh, this I know. Something that can help is a very good knee brace, not the crap you can buy at a drug store, but a solid, metal constructed, hinged brace. If your insurance can cover it, that would be best, since they are VERY expensive, but if you knee(s) are uberf**ked then they are a god send.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GentleTiger 0 #3 March 1, 2004 Thanx Dave, there is one brace that's come highly recommended by a friend at the DZ with the same prob, I'll check it out. I tried hers on and it felt great. Looking forward to graceful stand up landings, not sliding in on my heels and butt! BS Tiger________________________________________ Look, up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's a tiger in the sky!! Throw down some steaks and run for the hills!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Laurel 0 #4 March 1, 2004 One of our skydivers, Julie, wears one of those metal robo-knee braces and when she lands, she lifts that leg up, lands on her good leg and then puts her bad leg down for a more comfortable, soft landing. Becareful, though. Others that I see with bad knees, do the calm booty-slide landing. ..................................................................... PMS#28, Pelogrande Rodriguez#1074 My Pink M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GentleTiger 0 #5 March 1, 2004 ya, been sliding on in, on my heels and butt. You can always tell which jumpsuit and rig I was using. Part of the trick is not to trash the right one as well. Please wish your friend the best of luck for me. Thanx Laurel, Tiger________________________________________ Look, up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's a tiger in the sky!! Throw down some steaks and run for the hills!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #6 March 1, 2004 Learn to slide your landings. It might not look hip and cool, but it will save your knees.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #7 March 1, 2004 I have to agree. Coming off a femur break, I still can't run (well, I probably could, but I'm a chicken), and the butt-slide is the way to go, as long as you have a grassy area! Yes, people still ask me if I'm OK after a landing like that, but I'm not proud. I also found the butt-slide to be easier on a canopy that has some forward motion on landing, rather than a "stright-down" type. Consequently, I'm still jumping my Stiletto and my Jedei, rather than find a "docile" Spectre or something like it.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,334 #8 March 1, 2004 Something else to consider is learning how to PLF. With a bad knee, you'll have to modify it a little, but you can handle a lot of things falling down that would hurt to stand up, especially when you KNOW you're going to fall down. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #9 March 1, 2004 Not to start a post fight, but I think with the way you sit in the harness of a ram air, a PLF isn't practical. I know we've been teaching for a million years but the PLF doesn't take into account the forward speeds of the modern ram air. That is not to say that you can't do them, it is just that by doing them or being committed to them, you are banking on a technique that is adapted for something else. In my humble opinion, the PLF will induce an unwanted twisting motion that coinicides with the impact of landing. Not a good thing when dealing with a knee who's torsional stability is compromised. The slide, on the other hand, does account for the ground speed of the ram air. Just my .02Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GentleTiger 0 #10 March 2, 2004 Hi Tink, Ya, I think sliding and a good brace will be a big help, but don't I have to do some stand-ups for licenses? Are there any methods of sliding in that you would recommend? As of now, I use my heels to break the fall, and slide in on my butt...but I don't want to break my tailbone to save my knee. Thanx for your input, BBS Tiger________________________________________ Look, up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's a tiger in the sky!! Throw down some steaks and run for the hills!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #11 March 2, 2004 No, stand up landings are not required for license and ratings. Only accuracy is considered. When I opt to slide, I place both feet an knees together, at an angle to the ground, hit heels first, then ease on to my butt. Take care to try not to stop the landing (the friction with the ground will do that for you) and just coast on in. It doesn't look cool, but it saves the knees. But beware, you still need to learn the proper flare technique. You will still thump in very hard if you miss your flare point.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #12 March 3, 2004 Quotebut it saves the knees. Occasionally at the expense of the ass and/or spine. It's also easy to tweak an ankle or knee if your heel catches. imho, if you have a physical issue (knee, ankle, back problems) it's better to jump a canopy that you can land softly standing up every time - even in no wind - than it is to have to butt slide because you can't run. If that means jumping something bigger than what someone who doesn't have injuries to protect is jumping, or if it means upsizing after coming back from an injury, so be it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GentleTiger 0 #13 March 4, 2004 wow, that's great news Tink! And pretty much what I've been doing. BBS Tiger________________________________________ Look, up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's a tiger in the sky!! Throw down some steaks and run for the hills!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #14 March 4, 2004 Glad I could help.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSBlueskies 0 #15 March 11, 2004 Hello, Just discovered this thread today. I jump with no ACL in my left leg and a reconstructed one on my right. I use two Robo braces when I jump. I've found that what works for me is a good PLF. Maybe not the answer for everyone. Also, I took a canopy class and have improved my landings a great deal. Doing good landings on a bigger canopy and good expensive braces are the only way to go. Best of luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 41 #16 March 13, 2004 I blew my knee skiing in 1996, both my ACL and MCL went, and wear a brace for both skiing and skydiving. I use a DONJOY which was relatively inexpensive ~$700 and does up with velcro. It rubs a bunch so when skiing its over the long johns and when skydiving it over the jeans. Won't do any sports without it."Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mtpohl 0 #17 March 13, 2004 My wife raptured her ACL in Aug 03 on a botched tandem landing (passenger was ok: all smiles). At 1000+ jumps (AFF-I, TAN-I, Sr. Rigger), she has not been too proud to slide in everyone of her landings ever since on her cute behind. Smart thing to do until she undergoes reconstructive surgery in early May. /M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smiles 0 #18 March 15, 2004 Hey,...I can relate, left knee snapped my ACL in 2 pieces and will not be getting surgery. Have found after a year can get by beauty with 3 ligaments in my knee. I wear a good brace and subconsiously still favor my right leg/avoid landing on left and turning to the left....or running canopy off more than a few steps. Takes time under a canopy to get to know it well and trust it. My canopy is a dream to land (150 triathlon) ...and has made 100% improvement on my landings. SMiles Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GentleTiger 0 #19 March 15, 2004 Hi smiles, great name. I'm going to the gym this week to practice jumping up onto a moving treadmill, ankles and knees together. I'll do it at different speeds so I can then gauge what I'll need to do for a stand up landing when I see the ground rolling beneath me. (I expect to get lots of curious looks at the gym ) Then, when I'm comfortable with that, I'm going to continue to practice my PLFs and start jumping off of various pieces of furniture. Granted this is a pain the the butt, but, hey, I'm havin some fun with it! BBS, Tiger________________________________________ Look, up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's a tiger in the sky!! Throw down some steaks and run for the hills!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSBlueskies 0 #20 March 15, 2004 Jumping onto a moving treadmill? Wow, that sounds kind of tricky. Is that an exercise your physical therapist gave you? I know my physical therapist gave me lots of great exercises to do, but I never heard of that one. I'd be really careful! When I was rehabing after this latest injury my therapist was great and got me up to jumping off a 24 inch step. Which was quite a big deal for me. Take it slow and make sure to get all the professional advice you can. Are you going to have your ACL repaired or just live with it? I've decided to just live with it this time. So far so good and the braces really help a lot. Again, best of luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GentleTiger 0 #21 March 16, 2004 Hi DS, No, a therapist didn't give me this, it's my own answer to being intimidated to the ground rolling beneath my feet. If I know that I can handle different speeds on the treadmill, I'll be able to handle the ground. And with the treadmill, I'm going to start very, very slowly, and build up speed as I get the hang of it. Ya, I'm going to live with this as long as I can without surgery. BBS and careful knees ________________________________________ Look, up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's a tiger in the sky!! Throw down some steaks and run for the hills!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSBlueskies 0 #22 March 16, 2004 I know from my own rehab experience that jumping up to something takes a lot more strength then jumping off of something, but I guess you won't know until you try. Have you ever thought about taking a canopy course? I decided I couldn't get back in the air until I had taken one. I don't know where you are, but these classes are popping up all over. I took Scott Millers course down in Deland and it was great. Gave me more confidence and now I know what I need to work on. I also perfected my plf's there and that has helped a lot. I have always been afraid of the "butt slide". I don't want to mess up my back or catch a heel and end up breaking my leg instead. You might check at your DZ and see if they know of any canopy classes around. I know Scott travels too and might be coming somewhere close to you. Take care, DS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GentleTiger 0 #23 March 16, 2004 Hi DS, Aside from my knee issues, I decided that c/c class is a must, and I'm really glad there's been much more emphasis on it lately nationwide. I plan on going to Deland as soon as I can, and my DZ will be having c/c classes once a month. In the meantime, it's practice practice practice! BBS, Tiger________________________________________ Look, up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's a tiger in the sky!! Throw down some steaks and run for the hills!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSBlueskies 0 #24 March 19, 2004 Hello again, Those canopy classes are great and I'm glad to hear you already thought of that. By the way, not trying to stick my nose in where it doesn't belong, but I talked to my physical therapist today about your idea of jumping up to a treadmill. She said that was a bad idea.....mostly because now your are dealing with two moving objects, yourself and the treadmill. When you skydive your moving, but the ground isn't. She said with two moving objects you've just doubled your risk for instability. Just thought I would pass on the info. You have to make up your own mind of course. Talk to your doctor about a knee brace, too. I think they are wonderful and I wouldn't jump without mine. I look kind of funny walking around with both legs braced, but that's the great thing about being 40! You just don't care about those things anymore. Stay safe, DS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cudlo 0 #25 March 20, 2004 The butt landing works, although sometimes painful when you misjudge where the ground is. The problem that I encountered on one jump (Otter) was when everyone was preparing to enter the jump run. Getting off my duff and then onto my knees, sitting back against my heels like everyone else was doing (it was my second AFP jump) was a HORRIBLE idea. When it came time for my instructor and I to jump, once I left the aircraft I noticed a severe amount of pain and a very limited amount of mobility in my left leg (2 ACL replacement surgeries to date)._________________________________________ "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." - Kierkegaard Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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