Dangerous Trends

[Deleted 0]

This is a post that I hope will help in the cause of safety in this sport. There are dangerous trends that having been going on in this sport over the last five years. Ten years ago, no one dared to take unnecessary risks because the sport of skydiving presented itself with plenty of dangers of its own.
Now, as the sport has developed better gear and training, people in it have found ways to make it more and more dangerous. Whether they do it by poorly maintaining their gear, or failing to get a gear check on EVERY JUMP, or going on jumps they should be avoiding(such as large RW or freefly jumps while a beginner), or by pulling low; it seems a sad inevitability that people are going to die in these preventable mistakes.
I have seen many a new jumper be too timid to ask for a gear check for fear of looking "uncool" and I have seen people with a dozen jumps to their name go on large 8 way RW jumps, that they should be avoiding.
Being a total safety nut is not at all "uncool". It is the safety nuts that get to live to see 10,000 jumps. The ones who casually shrug off safety with bravado are the ones you hear about who bounce after 1000 jumps.
There is unavoidable risk in skydiving, and even safe and smart jumpers can still get killed. Jan Davis was a safe and smart jumper, but she still died from an incident that could happen to anyone. She did everything she could to avoid dying, but most jumpers do not.
It is scary to think that there are at least another 20-25 people out there in our skydiving world, who will be gone by the end of this year. About 1 in 1000 of us die each year.
My hope for the future of the sport is that safety is made number 1 by ALL jumpers of ALL experience levels. You must not wait for the crowd to shift though. You must take 100% resposibility for your own safety. Draw the line that you will not cross and then take another step back on the side of safety and maintain that level at all costs.
If you do that, you just might live to see 10,000 jumps and your family and friends will never have to deal with that phone call telling them that you are gone forever.
Safe skies to all,
Anonymous
PS Blue skies and God bless Jan Davis

[PLFXpert 0]

I agree, safety is certainly top priority and no-one should ever be timid about asking for a gear check. I ask for SEVERAL every jump. There is a lot to learn, however, that they don't teach you in AFF (and I assume S/L as well, although I did not go that route.) and I'm still learning a million different things that I should be watching out for and paying attention to that make me wonder how I got by w/out knowing about them for my first 50 jumps. I think safety should be more of an issue in cert. courses. It is just as important as learning to fly.
The number you presented (and I am not sure if it's correct or not, but assuming it is) concerning 20-25 skydivers deaths a year isn't a bad # however. Don't get me wrong, it is a very sad thing to see anyone in this sport have a mishap and pay for it with their life. I'm simply saying that in the bigger picture, with all the things you could be doing besides skydiving, a 20-25 people a year dying isn't a bad # to deal with and I give the sport and the skydivers props for not having more than that. I would have guessed a lot more.
Much love and blue skies,
Carrie http://www.geocities.com/skydivegrl20/

[skreamer 1]

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There is unavoidable risk in skydiving, and even safe and smart jumpers can still get killed. Jan Davis was a safe and smart jumper, but she still died from an incident that could happen to anyone. She did everything she could to avoid dying, but most jumpers do not.

Using the tragic accident as a platform for this little diatribe is reprehensible. Whoever you are (and however many jumps you have and how ever many years you have been in the sport), you have just displayed extremely poor taste and timing. The fact that you chose to post anonymously also garners you very little respect in my eyes.

Quote

She did everything she could to avoid dying, but most jumpers do not.

So, according to you most jumpers do not do everything they can to avoid dying??? Rather than get into a protracted argument with you which would be in even further poor taste, I implore you to have a look at the following tables, get your facts straight and then think twice before using a tragedy as grounds for a misplaced whinge about safety.
US fatalities : 1995 - 2001
US fatalities : 1963 - 1997
Have a look at those figures, consider that there are more people skydiving now than ever before and then please don't post such misplaced crap again. I never met Jan Davis, but from the obits posted to her on rec.skydiving I appreciate that she was a very special person who will be missed.
The fact that you saw fit to include her tragic death as part your argument was both in extremely poor taste and entirely illogical.I had written a lot stronger worded response, but out of respect to the lady who died, I didn't think it would be appropriate or respectful. Please feel free to continue this discussion privately (whoever you are).
William Walls

[Iflyme 0]

I have noticed that there ARE lots of people eager to advance perhaps too quickly in skydiving. Many people are downsizing their canopies at a relatively low number of jumps. Others are learning to freefly early in their progression, perhaps before they have mastered the skills necessary to be a good belly flyer. In this sport, as in many others, you have to learn to walk before you can run (to borrow a well-worn phrase). While this is certainly not the case with the latest horrible fatality, we should all be aware of our own skill level, and put safety ahead of everything else. Just my little rant for the day...
Frank

[MarkM 0]

Quote

Now, as the sport has developed better gear and training, people in it have found ways to make it more and more dangerous. Whether they do it by poorly maintaining their gear, or failing to get a gear check on EVERY JUMP, or going on jumps they should be avoiding(such as large RW or freefly jumps while a beginner), or by pulling low; it seems a sad inevitability that people are going to die in these preventable mistakes.

Uh, right. Since the gear is so good today skydivers are just jumping around with unmantained gear for that extra "rush".
Not to mention all those low pull contests that have been cropping up at the DZs....
I suppose if the gear gets any better we'll all start tossing it out of the plane and jumping after it?
Don't think so.

[skreamer 1]

Frank, I agree with you 100%, but it just really saddened me that whoever started that thread chose to include this latest accident in their argument. I fail to see how a VERY experienced camera jumper dying because reserve lines got caught in a camera housing can be used as part of the argument for general jumper safety. If somebody posted about Patrick De Gayardon's tragic death 3 years ago (13 April 98) and emphasized how important it is to pack carefully no matter how experienced you are - that I can learn from. But including Jan Davis's death in this thread, was entirely misplaced and out of order.
If the sport is becoming more dangerous (which the figures don't support) then surely everybody has a part to play in keeping things safe. If one of you experienced jumpers sees a new-comer like me doing something wrong, then speak up. If the unsafe behaviour is as a result of arrogance and not ignorance then ground the new-comer until they see sense.
I bet when squares first came out the old-timers were whingeing in much the same fashion that we now seem to find in post-cypres times. What is my generation of skydivers going to whinge about one day? Youngsters hooking their wing-suits in???
(sorry, trying to inject a bit of humour there because I was really pissed off earlier)
/s
[drop till you party!]

[Iflyme 0]

Sorry, Skreamer - I wasn't referring to your post... we all perceive things in different ways I guess... Jan's death was not due to a lack of safety percautions - but anytime a fellow skydiver dies during a jump, it serves as notice to each of us how unpredictable this sport can be... personally, it makes me think about my own safety even more. I've gotten hung up on the door of the c-182 during exit twice now, due to being too damn tall. Fortunately I suffered no injury either time, but I have become more aware of how easily and quickly a fun jump can turn into a "life or death" experience. Despite all the measures we may take to reduce risk to ourselves, we cannot eliminate ALL the danger of the sport. I think I am starting to ramble a bit, so I'll end here, and just read what others post...
Frank
btw, at 78 jumps, I still consider myself a novice, not yet qualified to give advice to others. My perspective, I will share, but I would never suggest to anyone here "do as I do"...

[Deleted 0]

Skreamer,
You are misreading what I wrote about Jan.
I met Jan twice and she was a wonderful person.
I was saying that SHE DID EVERYTHING SHE COULD to stay safe. She DID NOT MAKE ANY MISTAKES. I used that tragedy as a reminder of how even a person as smart and aware as Jan can get killed.
I feel horrible for her close friends and family.
But I will not be disciplined by a rookie jumper for reminding people out there to please be safe on every jump.
I am not registered since this is the first and last time I will post here.
But my name is Andre Thompson since you asked and I have 483 jumps.
I wont be checking this again since I usually don't have the internet.
I wrote what I wrote to save lives.

[skreamer 1]

I am sorry you won't be checking this thread again, or posting again, Andre. However I stand by everything I posted, I was unhappy with what you posted and never sought to attack you personally. Yes, I am a rookie jumper and will be for some considerable time (but so was everybody in the beginning of their skydiving lives). I was not seeking to discipline you, I just felt that using the accident as a safety reminder was misplaced and inappropriate, but I understand that your intentions were good. I do hope you check back on this thread and hopefully if you ever get regular internet access you will post here again. You will find that here we tend to agree to disagree.
You've got your opinions, I've got mine - no hard feelings.
William Walls
[email protected]

[PLFXpert 0]

I noticed a couple comments made about starting to freefly too early. I agree to a certain extent but a lot of freeflying is just as safe as belly. In my defense, I started freeflying at 30 jumps and have done mostly that ever since but I also had quite a bit of time in the tunnel (not freeflying) so in some cases, people may have had practice in the tunnel too before they begin freeflying. I don't really think any amount of belly-flying can prepare you any better for freeflying. Whether you are super good at RW or can just hang out and stay stable, as long as you can do just that (stay stable) then I don't see anything wrong with learning to freefly at a minimal # of jumps. However, I am still new to the sport and learning stuff every day so if someone has a point to contradict what I said, I'd be very interested to learn.
The only thing I see that I don't agree with but there's nothing wrong with it, is not being well-rounded. I know a couple guys that started learning to freefly, mostly headdown, right off student status and now, at a mere 100 jumps, this one particular guy can fly headdown with the best of them but he can't do RW for shit. Even though there's nothing much wrong with that, I personally think it's cooler to be well-rounded. It may take longer to get really good at one particular thing but at least when you do, you'll be really good at a LOT of things instead of just one. Anybody agree?
As I've said plenty of times, I LOVE freeflying but since I started, I still make sure to do some 4-way or something for a jump every few freeflying jumps just to stay current. (Although, I'm not exactly *current* right now but hopefully this will be the only time in my life from now on that I'm not. Money isn't everything but it controls 95% of everything you want to do....he he he...my boyfriend always says that and I think it applys hereMuch love and blue skies,
Carrie http://www.geocities.com/skydivegrl20/

[Albatross 0]

I am the first person to cry for better safety and to encourage everyone to try and be better perpared for Mr. Murphy to jump up and bite you. However, I think that we are making great head way in safety. I am a novice at 49 jumps and consider myself as such. I am well aware that I do not know anywhere near everything. I am always asking for advice, explanations, and help. NO ONE has EVER denied me the answers if they had them or thought less of me. At my DZ anyone will provide a grear check. I often ask my former instructors for one as they are super familiar with safety.
Remember that we are alll a family and we need to look after each other. Old hadns need to take the new people uner their wing and need to be sure enough to tell us to respect or bounderies. We (as newbies) need to take the advice of those who have been there before. Remember that knowledge is power and here it will keep you alive. God belss Jan and her Family.
Blue Skys and Safe Landings
Albatross