Iquestion for the old school riggers 26 foot navy conical line release

[keithbar 1]

so back in the day my first cut away and reserve ride was on A 26 foot Navy conical that had a four-line release system upon deployment muscle memory kicked in and I pop the release without even thinking but I didn't need the steerability it would have been impossible to miss the drop zone from that altitude and position in the skymy question is would that system have had actual little wooden toggles at steering lines or would have just been a color-coded line pull on to steer it I have a lot of jumps back in the day on tu modified. T10s and para commanders but did have wooden steering toggles . so I may be confusing the two. Anyone know? also I'm thinking of leaving the 4 line release in place would have resulted in it and a softer landing no?

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[highspeeddirt 0]

a 26 ft conical(or any "unmodified") will oscillate.sometimes you will hit the ground during a downward oscillation.my advice would be to go ahead and release the 4 line, it will make the canopy more stable.

[darkwing 4]

Conventional wisdom, which I believe to be correct, says that landing will be better if you release the lines.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[obelixtim 102]

keithbar

so back in the day my first cut away and reserve ride was on A 26 foot Navy conical that had a four-line release system upon deployment muscle memory kicked in and I pop the release without even thinking but I didn't need the steerability it would have been impossible to miss the drop zone from that altitude and position in the skymy question is would that system have had actual little wooden toggles at steering lines or would have just been a color-coded line pull on to steer it I have a lot of jumps back in the day on tu modified. T10s and para commanders but did have wooden steering toggles . so I may be confusing the two. Anyone know? also I'm thinking of leaving the 4 line release in place would have resulted in it and a softer landing no?

Toggles on a round reserve?.

Nah, nope, negative, Kemo Sabey.

Roundies are more reliable the simpler they are. Toggles could catch lines during opening causing a problem....not good on your last chance.

4 line cut is better than a reserve with meshed gores during the opening sequence as well.

You can steer (turn) the canopy by pulling the line adjacent to the 4 line cut on each side. (sometimes they're marked.) the 4 line cut will stop oscillations as has been said, and you'll get a little bit of drive out of it which could get you away from an obstacle if you have a bit of altitude and wind. Anything extra you get out of a round reserve ride is a bonus.

As with any round reserve be ready to PLF to the max, whatever you are landing on.

A lot of guys hooked the canopy up with the mod in the front, as you were more likely to be landing backwards in any sort of wind. Turning the mod into the wind on landing meant you were squeezing every ounce of drive out of it, while facing the direction you were landing, meaning a forward PLF rather than a backwards PLF.

Student training meant PLF training to hell.

PLFs have saved my butt and bones on a lot of jumps, plus once when I fell off a roof while painting it.

Shit....I must be getting old!!!.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[RiggerLee 61]

If we could return to the original question. It's bugging me because I can't remember the answer ether. Didn't the military have a four line release mod where you would pull the line of the release, undo the chain-link releasing the four lines, and then that line would become the control line spliced into the next out side line? I seem to recall that it just had a loop on the end of the 550 lb. line not a toggle. It was just tacked down with seal thread. Am I getting this confused with one of the after market systems? What was it on? Seat packs? Memory failure.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[obelixtim 102]

RiggerLee

If we could return to the original question. It's bugging me because I can't remember the answer ether. Didn't the military have a four line release mod where you would pull the line of the release, undo the chain-link releasing the four lines, and then that line would become the control line spliced into the next out side line? I seem to recall that it just had a loop on the end of the 550 lb. line not a toggle. It was just tacked down with seal thread. Am I getting this confused with one of the after market systems? What was it on? Seat packs? Memory failure.

Lee

The earlier round reserves didn't but most of the newer lopos had that short line with the loops as you describe. The military prolly came up with it first, but I don't really recall or know for sure.

Where's Dan Poynter when you need him?

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[riggerrob 561]

The stock MIL SPEC 4- line release was similar to the Waters 4-line release. Butler also built Waters 4-line release kits for many years, but only for PEP. The last fifty-or-
so new production C-9 s I packed came stock from the factory with Waters 4- line release system. You just pulled red loops of suspension lines until the daisy- chains released , then the red loops became steering loops. Pretty simply for the user.

There was a competing system that depended on metal pip pins to release those four drive lines, then had an annoying habit of jamming when you only pulled them halfway out, so never proved as popular as the Waters 4- line release system .

[keithbar 1]

thanks for that that's exactly what mine had. waters 4 line release. it worked well. and luckily I was very practiced. At plfs back then

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[jimjumper 25]

I know your asking about the Navy Conical, but just for info some of the LoPo reserves did have the wooden steering toggles your thinking of. My Strong LoPo had them. Had 3 rides on that canopy before it lineovered (with someone else under it) and got big burn holes in it!

[riggerrob 561]

Look at Poynter's Manual, Volume 1, pages 250 and 251, Section 6.2.10 Steerable alteration - reserve canopies.
Eventually: Butler, Davis, Para-Innovators, GQ Security, Waters, the US Navy and US Air Force all agreed that daisy-chaining was the best way to assemble 4-line releases.

[keithbar 1]

the one thing i remember very clearly was that navy conical pounded my big ass into the ground. and I really believe the only thing that kept me from being injured was my excellent plf skills . and being 20 yrs old and in the best shape of my life otoh my second reserve ride was only a few months later on a 26 ft. strong lopo that left me standing upright in a perfect plf position all my weight on the balls of my feet heels elevated. and as i started to topple over to my right i was like standup dumb ass. stood it up without even trying to

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[dpreguy 14]

Rigger Rob's explanation is correct. Jim Hall, old days, who jumped and rigged and co-produced "Ripcord" TV show, told me he personally tested and probably invented the "4 line cut" for the C-9's. The pilot was to cut the 4 lines with his hook knife and steer with rear risers. Now the systems are using the red daisy chain device as described by R Rob, which, when the daisy chains are pulled, releases the 4 lines, and as he said, are then used for steering. 3 of the 4 round pilot emergency parachute companies now offer the C 9 with 4 line release. I have only seen the C-9's in seat packs. I just packed 4 of them. Two of each mfg.
The H/C manufacturers sew in a channel onto the rear risers to keep the long red release/steering lines contained. Then a guide ring like on a sport canopy.

[riggerrob 561]

.... 3 of the 4 round pilot emergency parachute companies now offer the C 9 with 4 line release. I have only seen the C-9's in seat packs. ...

. ...................................................................................

I have packed C9 canopies into back, chest and seat packs made by a wide variety of civilian and MIL SPEC factories.
Butler, Para-Phernalia and Strong sell C9s to the warbirds market because C9 is one of the few canopies certified for more than 254 pounds at 150 knots.
The reason that you often see C9s in seat packs is because they are going into military surplus fighters and trainers that have deep seat pans specifically designed for bulky MIL SPEC seat packs.

IOW if you don't sit on a bulky seat pack, your eyes will be below the window sills.
Hah!
Hah!

[councilman24 36]

They still have it. You can see instructions for it in the manual for Strong's squadron seat in the C9 addeneum. New contract C9's have the release. No toggle just the red line. I service several.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[dpreguy 14]

Yes. I just did two Strong seat C-9's and two Butlers C-9's.
Nice 4 line releases. Newer canopies. I have about 8 customers with them.

As usual, packing the pop top was a 'not fun' experience.

[alexey 6]

Can you make some photos how they do it now?

Thanks

Lexa

[dpreguy 14]

I'd love to show photos, but I don't know how to do that.
Councilman is a computer nerd/chip head, (said in a nice way), so maybe he can do it?

[riggerrob 561]

alexey

Can you make some photos how they do it now?

Thanks

............................................................................

Poynter's Manual contains some good drawings show how to pack a Butler/MIL SPEC/Waters 4-line release.

[dpreguy 14]

The Waters/Butler stuff is 30 years old (appx) and if you notice, the "toggles" are just red doubled 550 with a knot on the end to hang onto. And....woe if you let one, (or both) of them go. They just fly behind you, attached to the rear lower lateral band. Then you could steer with rear risers I guess? Gotta give'em credit though, they did market a 4 line release w/o having to hook knife the rear 4 lines. Not too long after, someone invented the present system and put the red (or olive drab) doubled 550 thru guide rings, so it you let go of them, they'd still be there. Just like our present toggles. C'mon Coucilman, post some pictures.

[kkeenan 13]

Interesting how things go around. I jumped with both Charlie Waters and Manley Butler at a DZ near Austin in the early 70s. Butler and I were pretty new back then. Charley Waters was a master designer of plenty of innovations. Manley obviously picked up a lot. However, me being an Aggie, not so much.

Kevin K.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?