Time to vent...

[jfields 0]

Scott,
The other truth about hiring at higher levels is that if you meet the HR people before you already "have the job" from your prior meeting with the direct manager you'll report to, you are already screwed.
Justin
My Homepage

[scottbre 0]

Quote

The other truth about hiring at higher levels is that if you meet the HR people before you already "have the job" from your prior meeting with the direct manager you'll report to, you are already screwed.

Actually, the experience I have had with that is with big companies, where the first contact I have is with someone whose job it is to do the interview, but who doesn't make any decisions. That's fairly annoying, because it turns out, that when I get around to asking questions, they don't know any of the answers.
It's amazing that big business ever got big in the first place, when you consider how inefficient most of them are.
"Can't keep my mind from the circling sky. Tongue-tied & twisted just an earth-bound misfit, I."

[jfields 0]

It is all about job hunting and networking. For example, try to dig up the name actual manager you'd be working for. It might take some work on the computer and telephone. Contact them directly, be polite, but assertive and get a meeting with them, even if it is short.
Then you can do your magic and make your impression on them. When you have the manager calling HR, instead of you, saying, "Get this guy in" you are in the driver's seat. If you go in that way, you are in unless you royally screw up in the personnel formalities.
Here is a good site on lots of stuff related to finding/switching/leaving jobs. It is run by a headhunter, who really knows what he is talking about. Lots of articles and advice.
http://www.asktheheadhunter.com/
Once again, good luck in your search.
Justin
My Homepage

[scottbre 0]

Well, everything I say is acedemic at best, since I haven't even gotten my first job yet. (I wouldn't consider Accountemps a real career type job) But based on my record so far, I know lots of ways to not get the call-back.
Thanks for the link, I will check it out.
"Can't keep my mind from the circling sky. Tongue-tied & twisted just an earth-bound misfit, I."

[SpeedRacer 1]

What kind of businesses do yall work at? I'm a biologist at a biotech company, and interviewing & candidate selection is done entirely by the other scientists (the primary researcher and the rest of us scientists in the group) who will be working with the candidate. All the HR people do is step in atthe end & talk about benefits & shit. But they have no say in who gets hired, unless you have a criminal record or something.
Speed Racer
What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork from my lunch?!
-WC Fields

[freeflir29 0]

Speedy....This may be a shock...but I think the position of "Scientist" is filled slightly differently than most computer, office, or sales positions. "I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay

[SpeedRacer 1]

Yeah, but I'd still think the interviewing would be done by someone who knows something about the work being done!
Speed Racer
What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork from my lunch?!
-WC Fields

[SkyDekker 1,153]

hey scottbre;
I used to be in your exact situation. Just keep plugging away at it. Eventually it will all fall in place!!!!!!
Good Luck
"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa

[jfields 0]

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Yeah, but I'd still think the interviewing would be done by someone who knows something about the work being done!

Sadly, it usually isn't. In many job areas, you have to work fairly hard to get to talk to someone with half a brain that understands what you will be doing at their company.
Justin
My Homepage

[GrumpySmurf 0]

Be careful though - especially with programming positions, if the interview is a phone one, you can more or less get away with fudging, but if in person - that could kill your chances - I got stuck with interviewing college interms once, one of whom claimed he knew the Windriver Tornado IDE to the ends of the earth and back and worked with it for some time (any college kid who claims to know Tornado and VxWorks always gets a raised eyebrow from me) - so I tossed him in my office and asked him to start it up and generate a simple Hello World, project and all, add it to the workspace and have it piggy back off the vxWorks image already downloaded to the board - from scratch (fairly trivial, especially if you don't have to include a BSP into the project). Let us just say he might have stood a chance if he simply said he didn't have experience with Tornado. Some interviewers are jerks, especially when that money earmarked for a new hire could also be used for raises at the end of the year if no suitable hire is found ;)
I remember the good old days, I doubt you even needed a pulse back in '97 and Nortel would have taken you with no questions asked. :)

[freeflir29 0]

"I'd still think"
That's where you took a wrong turn! I work for Bellsouth and it's amazing. The management has absolutely NO input on who comes to work for them. The company gives HR guidlines on who they want prospective employees to be. HR hires them and they show up......some more qualified than others. I am the only non-management person in here that has an actual certification of any kind. Out of the 3 managers in the group only one has any certification. They do have 4 year degrees and experience in the company but all the telecom knowledge they picked up was OJT. I at least knew my way around networking before I walked in the door but still had a bit to learn.....Well....OK....it took me about 2 weeks....LOL
"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay

[bill2 0]

Welcome to reality. That's the way most employers are when the economy is bad. they can be very picky, just like employees can be when the economy is going well and people get hired at positions they don't even remotely qualify for. Can anyone say dot com? Try doing as your friend did and get a temp gig at some company. Remember it takes a lot of working at A job(s) to get THE job you really want. It's called paying your dues. You have to remember that you are not only going up against the company's hiring requirements, but the qualifications of the people who are applying for the same job. Don't lie on your resume but also don't be modest. If you did something relevant, anything, put it down there. And use the appropriate buzz words, since so many resumes are scanned in and the software picks up on certain words for certain types of jobs. Good luck.

[Iflyme 0]

In the business I work in - television news - very few people expect to get a "great" job fresh outta school. Go to a small town, work for a smaller company, gather some EXPERIENCE, then you'll have something back up your pitch to the bigger companies. And as for "padding" your resume, if you lie to get a job, your starting off on the wrong foot. Will you continue pretending throughout your career?

[freeflir29 0]

"Will you continue pretending throughout your career?"
I don't know....How much money is in it for me?
"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay

[jfields 0]

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"Will you continue pretending throughout your career?"
I don't know....How much money is in it for me?

It is sort of like the unwritten job intelligence test. If you are blantantly obvious or stupid enough to get caught in a lie, you deserve what is coming to you. If you are indulge in slight improvements that go unnoticed or can be backed up at a later time, you pass.
If you have an uninterrupted streak of passes until retirement, then you win the jackpot.
Actually, I'm only half kidding.....
Justin
My Homepage

[weid14 0]

unless you're the Notre Dame football coach of course....

[jfields 0]

Weid14,
I'm not familiar with the specifics of the incident. Did he get busted before or after retirement? Or was it retirement forced by getting busted?
Justin
My Homepage