Sebazz1 2 #1 April 30, 2002 http://www.pressdemocrat.com/lifestyle/news/30jump_d1.htmlSEBAZZ....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base698 1 #2 April 30, 2002 As usual we are depicted as injury laden yahoos. You can't trust the media for shit... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CatBurger 0 #3 April 30, 2002 oh, but I trust them to give us shit... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebazz1 2 #4 April 30, 2002 I did not realize that you could jump under the age of 18. Not in California anyway. Risk of lawsuit. It would seem to me that under 18 you have no rights. And at the same time no one person can waiver the rights for someone else? i.e. Parents. Wierd.SEBAZZ....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebazz1 2 #5 April 30, 2002 I just got an answer from someone regarding people under 18 jumping. We'll keep him anonymous.........."What's new? From day one in the USPA SIM 16 year olds have always been able to jump, just not tandem, until June of 2001. When then new NPRM past through the FAA after about ten years of discussion. There was lots of stuff in the new NPRM not just skydiving stuff. In any case the age limit for jumping did not change, it is 16 years old.Now having said that, USPA and some of the manufactures don't agree, they think that it should be 18 years old or age where someone can sign a legal contract (Wavier). Just because it is legal to take someone from the age of 16 on a jump (tandem, AFF or static line) doesn't make it smart. If and when someone gets hurt and that person is a minor we will all pay the price. Can you imagine "Mad Mothers Against Skydiving."At each BOD meeting someone always wants USPA to endorse 16 year olds jumping on tandem since it is now legal, it won't happen bad idea. Each DZO that lets it happen is playing "Russian roulette.""SEBAZZ....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spy38W 0 #6 April 30, 2002 Quote Each DZO that lets it happen is playing "Russian roulette."" Since the waiver wouldn't apply because it was signed by somebody under 18 and parents cannot sign away their childs rights, wouldn't that also be opening up the possibility for the equipment manufacturer to be sued as well? --Give them a sip of the darkside, and they just thirst for more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebazz1 2 #7 April 30, 2002 Now that I think about it I read this in Parachutist. I think Bill Booth wrote it..............Yeah the manufacturer would get hit too.SEBAZZ....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #8 April 30, 2002 Yep... thats why if you see this happening at a DZ, let the manufactor of the Tandem Equipment that they are using know about it. Not one of the major manufactors want under 18 jumping on their gear that I'm aware of.One lawsuit could easly wipe out RWS/Jumpshack/Etc.., Airtec, PD/Icarus and the DZ where something happens if a underage youth goes in on a tandem and the parents sue....Voice your opinion to people about this issue if you don't like what you are seeing now...If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TEB6363 0 #9 April 30, 2002 OMG!!!I don't even want to start with the press, skydiving, LODI (2 deaths there last year like there proud of it), and jumping tandem younger than 18.Actually, hey, if the DZO doesn't mind the fact that his decision to make an extra $100 may cause a lawsuit that could end tandem jumping. That is between the DZO and the Tandem manufacturer.OK, the end of my rant.:::OK, Canopy is Open, No Traffic Around, .. Why are these "Extra" Lines Draping Down??, Damn! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coconutmonkey 0 #10 April 30, 2002 What, the press biased, sensationalist, preaching about topics they know nothing about? Naw, say it ain't so! <> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBS 0 #11 April 30, 2002 One lawsuit could easly wipe out RWS/Jumpshack/Etc.., Airtec, PD/Icarus and the DZ where somethinghappens if a underage youth goes in on a tandem and the parents sue....---------------------A SUCCESSFUL lawsuit. Ask Bill Booth sometime about how many lawsuits he has seen come and go. There is another thread on another forum that referred to a couple. With the rules that are in place with the manufacturers at this point, they can still be sued, but the chances of someone winning are none to worse. I think everyone is always going to have to answer to the lowest common denominator (in this case, the age limit of 18 in places such as California), as manufacturers are world wide. They want to be covered no matter where an incident may occur.Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 4 #12 May 1, 2002 Didn't one of those guys write something to Parachutist about this? Pleading with DZOs to *not* let 16 year olds jump?I was thinking it was Bill or Ted.heh.. I said Bill and Ted.I'll go see if I can find it....Thanks to the human search engine (Phreezone) - March 2002 Parachutist, pg 13 "Too Great a Risk" submitted by Bill BoothYou don't scare me! I got chunks of guys like you in my stool!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xybe 0 #13 May 1, 2002 QuoteA SUCCESSFUL lawsuit. Ask Bill Booth sometime about how many lawsuits he has seen come and go. There is another thread on another forum that referred to a couple. Warning mad rant ahead...Even then a barrage of lawsuits (and settlements) can still damage the finances of manufacturers, DZs, instructors, etc. to the point that they may go out of business.And there is the other issue that was brought up of public fear/hatred for the sport after a 16 and/or dies or is gravely injured.Many americans are lawsuit happy, see the example of the parents of the kid that piloted an cessna into a building, they sued the makers of the acne medicine the kid used. Media portrayal of skydiving is unfair to say the least, why ask for trouble?Think of jurors that only know skidiving from headlines like "young woman plummets to her death while skydiving" or "skidiving claimed 35 lives last year". How fair could they be?Skydiving is far from mainstream and that is something we have to strive to change by enhancing safety while keeping ourselves out of trouble, it's unfair, it sucks, but it seems inevitable to me.Still shedding whuffo-nessCheck out the Hardcore Whuffo pages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBS 0 #14 May 1, 2002 Even then a barrage of lawsuits (and settlements) can still damage the finances of manufacturers, DZs,instructors, etc. to the point that they may go out of business.--------------------------------I agree completely...If you read the statement made that I was responding to, though, you will see that it says specifically "ONE lawsuit could EASILY put RWS...etc etc etc...OUT OF BUSINESS".If that were true, we wouldn't have manufacturers in business...the big ones would have been taken care of already, and the small ones would have never seen their stability and had the balls to start up.And we wonder why equipment is so expensive...I agree as well with the rest of your statements regarding the liability that the sport would undertake in general. I like the age being 18...hell, let's up it to 21...any supporters?:-)StevePS - I was just kidding...please don't start yelling at me...anyone. :-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chickenhawk420 0 #15 May 1, 2002 come to UK, the laws better. Did my first two (and only) jumps at 16. Now 20, must jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #16 May 1, 2002 QuoteBesides flying planes, Kevin plays paintball, rides dirtbikes and has gone scuba diving in shark-infested waters. He also lived with friends for several months in Sweden, his father's birth country.They let a sixteen year-old live in Sweden!? For several months!? How extreme is that!? The next thing you know there will be an epidemic of youngsters being sent to and from different countries in some sick and twisted form of human "exchange". First skydiving, now this? What is the world coming to?FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShortBus 0 #17 May 1, 2002 I dont know to much about the legality of people my age jumping and to be honest i can sum it up with two words "bull shit" this sue happy world has really messed things up for the decent people left in the world. I called Numerous Dz's in my home state MI and in OH no one would let me jump since i was only 16 and i wasnt mature enough to make my own choices...Great might as well throw salt in my wounds while your at it. I finally found a Dz "Skydive wayne county" that let me jump lsat summer, my first jump is something ill never forget the fact alone i was allowed to jump has earned my total respect its just sad Dz's have to take "risks" just so someone under 18 can do something they love. im just kind of ranting with no real purpose to my post. Im just expressing how sick it makes me that people can sue over the smallest thing i.e "hot pickles" "acne medicine turned my kid bad" "made me say a prayer" what is wrong with this world!!! Well atleast there is some normal people left that make it easier for people my age so Rock on all you normal people.dan"get on the bus" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #18 May 1, 2002 Hey, join the Army. They'll let you jump and even pay you for it! You'll just have to walk a little afterwards.I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OATSF14 0 #19 May 1, 2002 My kid is 16. He has done 10 tandems. He will continue to do them. He has also logged much tunnel time. Mid summer he will be doing a mid week, "shhhhh..can't tell anybody AFF course". If you wish not to allow your kids to jump at 16, don't let them. Mine wants to. Luckily I know a couple DZs that are open to this. Old buddies come in handy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #20 May 2, 2002 The recent debate has been sparked by the lifting of restrictions on Tandems for people under the age of 18. There is no reason for an AFF course for a 16 year-old to be "hush-hush", it violates no laws or BSR's. I know a few people who completed their training prior to turning 18, and have seen quite a few more doing static-line and AFF jumps. But DZ's do have the right to decide whether or not they will allow minors to jump at their facility. FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AiRpollUtiOn 0 #21 May 2, 2002 I believe that here in Belgium, everyone that fits into the tandem harness is allowed to jump (with parents concent if under 18 ofcourse)A few weeks ago we had a kid aged 11, he enjoyed the ride!This jump was sponsored by make a wish foundation (the boy had about 10 months left to live => leukemia)Glad he made the right choice, and didn't choose to meet like ... euhm Britney Spears or sumthing, this doesn't mean I wouldn't like to meet her!I'd like for us to be good (very good) friends heheh ;-)Anywayzzz, I don't know why underaged people shouldn't make tandem jumps, the risks are s high as with grownups, little to none. Will jump for beer, bs AiRpollUtiOn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
