Gear on airlines story: no problems

[narcimund 0]

This week my boyfriend and I travelled to the bay area for a trade show (Seybold) and a day of jumping at Skydance in Davis. Just thought I'd post how the gear-on-airline process went.

Both of us made it through leg #1 without a single raised eyebrow. We put our rigs in soft gearbags and put the gearbags on the xray conveyor belts without calling attention to them. The xray people passed them off without any questions.

On the way back my bf went through again without a pause, but I got stopped by the xray chick. She was concerned about a square metal object (obviously the cypress). She passed me on to another security person who spoke little or no English. ("It's a p-a-r-a-c-h-u-t-e" "paarasoot??") Finally I got shuffled off to a supervisor who educated her underlings. "Parachutes are ok!" Then she turned to me and asked, apparently seriously, "You're not planning on using that, are you?" I gave her my best serious airplane-security-is-important face and assured her that not only didn't I intend to use it, I'd be very unhappy if I was forced to exit a 737 at 40,000'.

It's worth noting that the return trip was today, Sept. 11.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[quatorze 1]

TODAY???? I have worked for (undisclosed airline) for over two years and know the ins and outs, but I still would not have tried to fly with my rig today...Friend yuo must have two big brass church bells swinging low

I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle

[skyejumper 0]

I've travelled with my rig on 3 flights within the past 2 months (all on Southwest Airlines). Some airports are stricter than others. At Burbank airport they wig out a bit, then the supervisor comes over and you give them the Cypres card and stay cool and everything is fine. Same deal at Phoenix. Oakland airport didn't even bat an eye. I think it's all how you act. Oh yeah.. they let a friend of mine thru with her rig, but then made her take her sneakers off!!!

[quatorze 1]

Cute...
I think it was Ben Fraklin that said the true test of a man's character is to give them authority. Just a thought

I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle

[skydiverbrian 0]

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Friend yuo must have two big brass church bells swinging low

Wow Narci! I guess your secret's out now!

In a world full of people, only some want to fly... isn't that crazy! --Seal

[christoofar 0]

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the exit doors on most Boeing and MD-80s sealed during flight? There is no way a passenger could open them at cruising altitude and exit the plane with a parachute.

I don't know if that's a good logical defense to use when trying to get to the gate and you're stuck @ security... but it's worth a shot.

At Rantoul there were no problems in the Champaign airport... I was one of the first groups leaving (I left after 6 days) and I gave an impromptu course to the security personnel (upon questioning of my carryon) on what sport rigs look like and what all the parts are you see in the Xray machine. I also explained AAD and that they should always be turned OFF.

I have taken a rig through SAT, PHX, Vegas and ORD and have never had any troubles with airport security. I think it more has to do with the individual scrutinizing you than anything else. Some places don't see lots of skydivers coming to/fro so they don't know what to do. There might be a few places where even a supervisor has no clue about people like us.

Either way, all the big U.S. carriers allow rigs as carry-on. If you are stopped, ask for a supervisor if they won't let you onboard. Be cheerful and polite; answer any questions asked (don't over-volunteer information).

Other helpful hints:

DON'T carry your rig to the airport unconcealed; esp. at large airports where there are lots and lots of whuffos. Buy a gear bag at the sporting goods store. You don't want to be in a plane full of scared-shitless whuffos staring at you through the whole flight.

DON'T take the rig out of your gearbag before the xray machine. Let security stop you if they have questions. At your arrival, it's okay to take the rig out after landing and throw it over your shoulder if you don't want to carry it in your arms... you won't be stopped by security leaving the airport and since everyone is on the ground, you won't hear much flack from whuffos.

DON'T exclaim to the world that you have a rig. Let security take you aside so you can talk to them directly, away from other passengers.

DO turn off your AAD before you pack your rig or take it to the airport. Know how to turn it OFF in case you are asked to turn it on.

DO explain what the AAD is when asked by security; it is an emergency reserve-opening device to be used during a skydive. It is there to save your life.

DO wear skydiving t-shirts, etc. paraphanalia with you if you can. A guy in an Armani 3-piece with a parachute looks odd and suspicious. A dude with five-o-clock shadow in a "GO FAST" tee seems more apropos to have a chute. Same goes for women; not a good idea to look like June Cleaver.

DO answer any question asked of you politely and honestly. Being talkative unsettles nerves. You don't have to spill your whole life story, just explain that this is a sport you do and it's fun and exciting. If you brought a skydiving rag with ya to read, share it.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[PhreeZone 15]

I've gone through SAT, CMH, CVG, O Hare, Houston, DWF, and I'm sure a few others in there. At no point was I really stopped about the rig. A few quick questions and I was on my way.

>DO wear skydiving t-shirts, etc. paraphanalia with you if you can. A guy in an Armani 3-piece with a parachute looks odd and suspicious. A dude with five-o-clock shadow in a "GO FAST" tee seems more apropos to have a chute. Same goes for women; not a good idea to look like June Cleaver.

This is the only part of the post that I've seen is backwards. The times I fly for work I don't get asked about the gear, but on personal flights I get asked all most all the time. If you are dressed up for business, most times security just gives it a once over, but personal flights are more able to be interrupted (searched and delayed). Also by wearing this type of shirt you are announcing to the entire world you are a jumper. A jumper carring a rig on board can scare the whuffos... A business man carring a large duffel bag on does'nt get a second glance.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[christoofar 0]

Quote

I've gone through SAT, CMH, CVG, O Hare, Houston, DWF, and I'm sure a few others in there. At no point was I really stopped about the rig. A few quick questions and I was on my way.

>DO wear skydiving t-shirts, etc. paraphanalia with you if you can. A guy in an Armani 3-piece with a parachute looks odd and suspicious. A dude with five-o-clock shadow in a "GO FAST" tee seems more apropos to have a chute. Same goes for women; not a good idea to look like June Cleaver.

This is the only part of the post that I've seen is backwards. The times I fly for work I don't get asked about the gear, but on personal flights I get asked all most all the time. If you are dressed up for business, most times security just gives it a once over, but personal flights are more able to be interrupted (searched and delayed). Also by wearing this type of shirt you are announcing to the entire world you are a jumper. A jumper carring a rig on board can scare the whuffos... A business man carring a large duffel bag on does'nt get a second glance.

I've found the opposite to happen to me. I was questioned more often in ORD (line check, and the ticket counter) and I was wearing a suit and tie with the gear bag over my shoulder. I'm sure business casual is probably more in the "harmless" type of dress that you speak of.

Passengers actually seeing a rig over a shoulder and you boarding the plane will setoff alarm bells in their minds... if they know what it is. If you're wearing just a plain old tshirt, or even a skydiving tshirt... whuffos will just glance over it and figure you for military, extreme-sports freak, etc... much like you would gloss over someone who had 15 zillion piercings. As far as security goes, the more you "seem" like the type that jumps, the easier your trip to the gate will be.

Also, not every skydiving tshirt is an obvious "you are a skydiver tshirt". I have a couple that brazenly announce it, most of the others are just the speed-limit (120mph) sign with the word skydive! plastered on it, some others I have are too existential to be recognized. I didn't get questioned when wearing my bright-purple "Fear is Not Fatal - Skydive San Marcos" tshirt and cut up jeans on a 4 leg flight. You would *think* it would set off alarm bells, but it doesn't.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[BikerBabe 0]

I have flown several times with my gear since last september, and the ONLY place I've had problems is Albuquerque. They seem to be super strict here, and I'm not sure why. Of course, they have about 100 security people standing around 4 security lines...most of whom are BSing with their buddies or staring off into space.

They did not accept my Cypres card as identification of the metal box inside the rig, and said if they couldn't visually identify it, I couldn't carry it on. I see this as a potential problem in the future, since I'll be flying to Phoenix every two weekends to train.

The supervisor actually said this to me: "If I let you on with this, then someone else carries the same thing on and blows up the plane, how would you feel?" Needless to say I was appalled at that question and I told him that was a completely inappropriate thing to say. That was when I gave up because I knew I wouldn't be able to be polite anymore, and I checked it.

Anyway, I went out the next week and bought a hard sided suitcase that perfectly fits all my gear (rig, helmet, jumpsuit, weight belt, etc) and I now check it on flights where I don't have to make a plane change. I haven't had a problem with that so far.

So just a warning if you ever feel the need to fly out of ABQ with your gear (not that you would, unless you live here and you want to leave)...they seem to be overly-paranoid here for some reason.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[AndyMan 7]

I've flown countless times in the last year. I've been to almost every major hub aiport in the US, plus a few in Canada.

If you happen to be flying through an airport with the new federalised security - awesome! These guys are well trained, know the rules, and never give hassles without a good reason. If you're stuck with some dumbass from Argenbright, well - it's going to be hit and miss. If you do get stopped, they'll hand you off to a supervisor who usually knows the rules. I've never been delayed by more then 5 minutes, usually when I'm already running late for my flight.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[christoofar 0]

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I've flown countless times in the last year. I've been to almost every major hub aiport in the US, plus a few in Canada.

If you happen to be flying through an airport with the new federalised security - awesome! These guys are well trained, know the rules, and never give hassles without a good reason. If you're stuck with some dumbass from Argenbright, well - it's going to be hit and miss. If you do get stopped, they'll hand you off to a supervisor who usually knows the rules. I've never been delayed by more then 5 minutes, usually when I'm already running late for my flight.

_Am

Hear hear AndyMan!

One good thing about TSA is that, when they eventually get their act figured out, will have standardized security across the board so everyone will be treated the same. Norman Manetta remphazised that on an NPR broadcast I heard two weeks ago. Airports that want to adopt their own "additional" security checks and procedures is unacceptable; if one airport has a reason to institute another check, they should notify TSA and FAA immediately as to why they feel they need the precaution because the extra precaution may be needed at other facilities.

I have a friend in Bah-ston who recently was hired by TSA to work at Logan. He has assured me even thought they are in a hiring and training frenzy right now... you *will* be treated and scrutinized the same way at every U.S. airport in the near future.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[JeffGordon 0]

I have flown with my rig a dozen times over the past year and the only hassle I've gotten was at Tampa Intl. They xrayed my gear bag, saw the metal on the rig and made me open the gear bag. I explained what a sport parachute is and that I was a skydiver. I explained the AAD and how it couldn't possibly activate on the plane (I have an Astra).
Well why don't you just check it? Because it costs more than my car. I had to wait while the called a supervisor, then wait for them to xray it again. Explained again that skydiving rigs are specifically allowed by FAA regulations and by Delta airlines policy. Had to wait for another supervisor and explain again that sport parachutes were allowed by FAA regulations and Delta airlines policy. This time the supervisor checked the list and asked me "Is your little thingy turned on?" I showed her the Astra was not turned on, She thanked me for my patience and let me go. Took almost three hours.

Leaving Baltimore, I had a man ask me about my rig. I told him it was a sport parachuting rig and he just said "I should have been able to tell that by looking at your shirt"

[christoofar 0]

Okay. Since TSA is heading up all the airport security now, I thought I'd excersize my 1st Admendment right and send a letter.

Here is a draft. Comment away. Useless rants will be ignored. Constructive criticism will be embraced!

Quote

Mr. Christopher Sawyer

San Antonio, TX 78230



Transportation Security Administration
400 Seventh Street SW
Washington, DC 20590




To: Director, Transportation Security Administration


Re: Airport Security - Parachuting Equipment Onboard United States Commercial Aircraft



To Whom It May Concern:



My name is Christopher Sawyer. I am an avid skydiver and a frequent traveler among America’s air transportation systems. As a sport parachutist and participant in that sport, I do frequently travel to regional airports in different areas of the United States where parachuting activities are carried out. The Federal Aviation Administration regulates parachuting/skydiving itself and its requirements are detailed in FARs, which I will not go into detail here.

Skydiving is not a renegade activity. We do have our own association that serves to represent us and self-regulate our sport, the United States Parachute Association, headquartered in Washington. Skydiving participants are not easily classifiable by any particular stereotype or physical appearance. George Bush Sr. has made several skydives in recent years. Tens of thousands of U.S. skydivers are female. There are many active skydivers over the age of sixty. The people who engage in the sport of parachuting come from a vast array of ages, races, religions and social strata with varying physical abilities.

The concern I have here in this letter to you is with the consistency of airport security personnel when encountering the traveling skydiver. In my experience and the experiences of others, most airport personnel are aware that people such as us exist. The treatment of skydiving equipment however, namely the parachuting rig, gets mixed reactions from among the security personnel that inspect carry-on luggage. This inconsistency is disheartening to see. For some skydivers this can be a very aggravating experience and it intensifies concern over airport security overall.

Skydiving equipment is required by the FARs to be designed to save the life of the person who is wearing it. Most skydivers prefer to closely monitor their gear as they travel about the United States and abroad. Improper handling of the gear can risk the life of the individual who depends on the gear in the sport. The FARs require that a skydiver carry both a main and reserve parachute, and that the reserve parachute be packed by an approved FAA rigger.

There are many skydivers who carry an Altitude Activation Device (AAD) inside their rig. This is an emergency apparatus that opens the reserve container of the skydiving rig in the course of a jump. When switched on, it will activate if the jumper does not open his or her main parachute at the prescribed minimum altitude in the course of skydiving. When it is armed, the device triggers a reserve container opening; the spring-loaded pilot chute in the reserve container will deploy, then reserve parachute will come out of the rig. This can create a large mess. Once the reserve is deployed, an approved FAA rigger is required to pack the reserve canopy and close the reserve container.

Security personnel who come across skydiving gear treat the equipment differently. Some are aware of what the gear is, and some are not. Some personnel aggressively question skydivers as to their gear and whereabouts, which they should. The insistence of forcing skydivers to check their parachuting rig as luggage, however, is an irrational decision. Parachuting rigs are approved by the FAA to be carried onboard an aircraft. Parachuting equipment is very expensive to own and maintain, in particular the rig itself.

Parachute rigs should be inspected and scrutinized like any other suspect item that passes through security checkpoints. Security personnel should be properly trained to identify parachuting gear and what it looks like under x-ray in a consistent manner. They should also be trained to recognize an AAD and to order the owner to keep it turned off. It is imperative that this be done even if the skydiver is checking the gear to be stowed in a luggage compartment.

I strongly urge you to consider including the coverage of parachuting gear in formal training for all front-line airport security personnel in addition to other sport paraphernalia that enters and exists airports each day. The Federal Aviation Administration and the United States Parachuting Association are extremely knowledgeable organizations and can assist with providing the resources and information necessary to understand all aspects of parachuting equipment.


Very Truly Yours,


Christopher Sawyer
USPA A-40633

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[PhreeZone 15]

Nice letter... only thing I'd change is this:"When it is armed, the device triggers a reserve container opening;"
The word armed implies explosives. I'd choose something like enabled or activated... but stay away from armed, cut, etc.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Spy38W 0]

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Nice letter... only thing I'd change is this:"When it is armed, the device triggers a reserve container opening;"
The word armed implies explosives. I'd choose something like enabled or activated... but stay away from armed, cut, etc.

How about "The AAD releases the reserve pilot chute" or reserve parachute

--
Hook high, flare on time

[christoofar 0]

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Nice letter... only thing I'd change is this:"When it is armed, the device triggers a reserve container opening;"
The word armed implies explosives. I'd choose something like enabled or activated... but stay away from armed, cut, etc.

Good point. Keep it coming.

Did I explain the AAD acronym properly? I've heard different expansions of AAD.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Parachuting rigs are approved by the FAA to be carried onboard an aircraft.

Actually, it's the US DOT that has certified them as non-hazardous. Take a look at Airtec's website for the document.

[Marz 0]

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How about "The AAD releases the reserve pilot chute" or reserve parachute

I write to people for a living....
When I was a corporate trainer, our catch line was "when in doubt, confuse them with subject matter expertise." I don't think that's the intent here.

Should this maybe get circulated around as a petition and submitted to TSA by the USPA ? That might hold more weight...

my two cents.

Good job!

_________________________________________
Did I just kill another thread?

[christoofar 0]

Good ideas and corrections, guys! I'll send the letter off with the corrections tomorrow after enough people have read it.

I agree that we should have the USPA readdress this problem directly to the TSA and appeal for support. Perhaps I should cc: Mr. Needels?

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[Spy38W 0]

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Good ideas and corrections, guys! I'll send the letter off with the corrections tomorrow.

I agree that we should have the USPA readdress this problem directly to the TSA and appeal for support. Perhaps I should cc: Mr. Needels?

Hrm, howzbout sending it to somebody at the USPA for ideas/corrections/suggestions, whatever.. I'm a bit paranoid, but think that sending a letter like that blindly to the TSA might cause more problems that it would solve. Why not take the extra day or so to send it to the USPA and get their advice. Isn't that what we pay them for?

--
Hook high, flare on time

[PhillyKev 0]

Good point, Spy. The person reading it might have a bug up their butt and decide that now that parachutes have been brought to their attention they have to impose extra requirements regarding them (such as check in, etc.). The USPA would know the best person(s) to direct this to and would have experience as to whether it would be helpful or harmful.

[christoofar 0]

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Good point, Spy. The person reading it might have a bug up their butt and decide that now that parachutes have been brought to their attention they have to impose extra requirements regarding them (such as check in, etc.). The USPA would know the best person(s) to direct this to and would have experience as to whether it would be helpful or harmful.

I disagree here. Let me explain why:

Almost all security directors at airports know that parachutes are allowed on board. If you got stopped and you run into a trouble, the security supervisor usually resolves the issue. If parachutes were considered to be dangerous, which they are not, the Agency would have quickly added them to the list of prohibited items, before and certainly immediately after 9/11.

If you take a look at the restricted list of prohibited carry-on items, the TSA lists out quite a few items that definitely should not be in a cabin. "There is a $1,100 fine per violation in additional to criminal penalties."

I think the scenario of carrying a parachute has probably been discussed at a high-level at length in the Agency. The issue my letter highlights is the inconsistency at TSA administered checkpoints when screening for and handling what is not a prohibited item, but may be emotionally perceived to be prohibited due to fear or undue concern by inspectors.

Rationally speaking, I do not think my letter is antagonistic or inflammatory. I also do not represent all skydivers, either. I am writing it in the perspective of a single concerned air traveler, who happens to be a skydiver.

I do think USPA needs to see a copy of this letter so they have a chance to respond to it if queried. I am not doing it to "subvert" the USPA, I am sending it to raise awareness and perhaps ignite a dialogue.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[PhillyKev 0]

Airtec met with the ATA Hazardous Goods Committee and the Committees response was:

"The general consensus was: "yes, you have an interesting problem", and
"you know, we really are not the right people to be talking to, as
your device is not hazardous". They suggested that we schedule a
meeting with the ATA group that is responsible for training the
airport security personnel, and "tell them what you have just said to
us". In addition, they suggested that we supply the ATA Security
Board with a CYPRES equipped rig to be used in the screening personnel
training classes."

Also from Airtec:
"Lastly, please do not call the airline ahead of time and try to "ask
permission" or "ask if it is OK" to carry your CYPRES equipped
parachute on board or even to check it as baggage - this will only
cause problems. Although CYPRES has been approved as non-hazardous by
DOT, many airline representatives are not aware of this (thus the
reason for our meeting with them in D.C. last week). The DOT
certificate does not refer to CYPRES by name, but to a part number. If
you call in advance and ask permission, the airline representative may
have to refer the matter to their headquarters or even to an
independent testing laboratory resulting in long delays."

"Please email me with details of any specific experiences you
have in the next few months while traveling by air.

Blue skies - safe skydives,
Cliff Schmucker"

Check out the full write up here. Your letter may not hurt, but it's unlikely to do much good. The best bet is to let the people who have been working on this issue continue their work. If you want to help them or prod them on, contact them.

[Spy38W 0]

Right, basically my point is, there might be something in the letter that would set off whuffo people in the agency that would cause them to add parachutes to the "banned" list, that we, as skydivers would not think twice about. And as the USPA takes part in whuffo/skydiver relations more than the average skydiver, they would probably be more likely to pick up on one of these unintentional 'triggers'

Just my two cents, do as you wish, but please remember, think before you act and it's easier to ask for permission than forgiveness, etc..

--
Hook high, flare on time

[christoofar 0]

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Right, basically my point is, there might be something in the letter that would set off whuffo people in the agency that would cause them to add parachutes to the "banned" list, that we, as skydivers would not think twice about. And as the USPA takes part in whuffo/skydiver relations more than the average skydiver, they would probably be more likely to pick up on one of these unintentional 'triggers'

Just my two cents, do as you wish, but please remember, think before you act and it's easier to ask for permission than forgiveness, etc..

I just can't see this happening. If I was an employee and I denied a skydiver to board an aircraft with a parachute, it would begin an incident that would almost certainly catch the attention of the folks "upstairs." Many parachutes are in the sky daily on commercial aircraft; and that's not including all the parachuting gear in the air on freight flights.

I'm not certain the [carefully reworded] letter will do much good directly, either... but it is only meant to serve as a piece of information.

I'm quite confident that I've rationally explored all the expected reactions of people who may see the letter. This isn't a rant like you see in Parachutist every month. It's a legitimate concern, and I don't think TSA would overreact.

The TSA has very specialized security experts who have already deemed parachuting gear to be harmless equipment to be taken aboard. To think that parachutes have been going in and out of cabins without anyone at the Agency knowing or contemplating it since 9/11 would seem quite bizarre.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.