training with a new chute/ other newb questions

[sundevil777 93]

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I was looking at the Javelin Legacy and it doesn't really look that bulky. Of course a picture does not equate to what it actually is like in real life.

Of course you should not expect that picture of their container to have been a model that has really large student sized canopies in it.

If you got the money, great, buy new gear, but plan on getting it for when you have plenty of jumps. I understand that it is a confidence booster to have your own equipment, but you can get much of that feeling if you learn more about the gear (learn how it works and how to pack it yourself), and it helps gear confidence if the DZ you jump at has gear that is fairly new and in great condition.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[airtwardo 6]

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...even though I know it's really safe.

Ummm...relative to what ~ Blindfolded Bomb Disposal ?


Before you go in for training ya might want to study up a bit on the risk factor. It's certainly safer than when I started, probably not as safe as it will be in ten years...but make no mistake, you are purposely putting yourself into an environment that does not suffer fools.

Bring your A game, listen, learn, think.

A Disneyland ride is 'really' safe, make the right mistake at the wrong time while skydiving and death or injury are very real consequences.


Stay in the sport for a while and you'll know someone who went in, stay a while longer any you will see it first hand...understand that believing that Skydiving is 'really safe' is fertile ground for the seed of complacency.

Trust me ~ Complacency Kills.


Now...get your ass in CLASS!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[popsjumper 2]

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Because you don't want to be on a student rig with a dinosaur-sized main after you're licensed and have a few jumps under your belt.

Please refrain from telling people what they "want". You have no clue what they want and your use of derogatory terms, i.e., dinosaur-sized, implies smaller is better and that's not true by along shot. You are perpetuating a myth that smaller is better for everyone.

YOU are one of the ones causing the "gotta downsize" and "gotta downsize fast" problems that lead to so many injuries.

Let his local people handle it.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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Since you obviously didn't hear me the 1st time.

Ummmmm...methinks he has no clue what we are talking about as far as equipment goes....RSL, AAD, wing load, sizing, etc.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Hellis 0]

Quagmirian

***Ok I got it. Consensus is don't buy a new student rig, wait until after 50-100 jumps and buy something better.

I don't want to buy used.

That's absolutely fine. Buying new has a number of benefits, like having the harness sized to you, and knowing exactly what you're getting. Be aware that there are some downsides, like the initial lead time and a significant drop in resale value when you come to sell the rig.

And this ^^ part is much depending on your landingskills.
A two month old gear that was in the hands of a "bad landing" person will look like it's ten years old.

And something that not has been mentioned before is, when you buy a new canopy it's almost near impossible to pack for a beginer.

If you buy used gear the pricedrop is not a problem anymore.
The rig probably have a few stains already so bad landings is not that big issue.
And you will be able to pack it yourself.

All the confidenceboost you might get from owning your own new gear will be gone in a minute if you struggle with the packing.
However, the confidenceboost students/new jumpers get from beeing able to pack their own gear is something else.

[ChrisD 0]

airtwardo

Quote

...even though I know it's really safe.

Ummm...relative to what ~ Blindfolded Bomb Disposal ?


Before you go in for training ya might want to study up a bit on the risk factor. It's certainly safer than when I started, probably not as safe as it will be in ten years...but make no mistake, you are purposely putting yourself into an environment that does not suffer fools.

Bring your A game, listen, learn, think.

A Disneyland ride is 'really' safe, make the right mistake at the wrong time while skydiving and death or injury are very real consequences.

Funny you mention the Disneyland World death rate.


Splash Mountian 6 dead, mostly from standing up at the end.

Thunder Mountian 2 D, 3 serious fiberglass engine on first car comes off in tunnel.

Skyride worker gets pushed off platform due to other worker starting ride without notice.

Disney is good for 20 or so fatals because of drowning each year. Some of these might be heart attacks.

Car crashes on property, esp after drinking, another 20 or so.

1 chooking in a property food establishment.

Drugs, 2 -4 each year cast as well as public.

Space Mountian, 1 per every 3 years due to undiagnosed congenital defects, sudden death snydrom.

One confirmed suicide in the contemporary hotel, newlywedd Goofy comes home to fine new wife in bed with best man,...

ETC.,


You might be better skydiving on a Velo 100 than going to DW.

C


Dude, what you mean "suck" and "safety" in that last sentance???

Now you have put your foot into it, and I'm going to point out in not as nice as Krissanne points out that you have raised a real issue and shown your true colors, that was a really stupid thing to say, if in fact your a student, and we all are really, you might be forgivin, but I suspect otherwise your really "Gerado" come back to show us all how full of yourself you really are....

You want to learn to swoop, someday, fine, but till then keep your mouth shut, do what your told and learn, and real fast learn not to speak about safety and how you think the world works from your perspective.

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[NWFlyer 2]

chemist

Do you want to be that golfer with the bestest, newest clubs that can't hit the ball off the tee?


nah I don't want to be that guy but it's not the same. I don't want to be the guy that says you have to start on a used 250cc either. Riding a motorcycle is easy as pie. There's a balance to be drawn between suck and being safety conscious.

Well, guess what. Your instructors are going to put you on the skydiving equivalent of a 250cc for a while, whether you like it or not, and whether you walk in with shiny new gear or not.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[popsjumper 2]

chemist

nah I don't want to be that guy but it's not the same. I don't want to be the guy that says you have to start on a used 250cc either. Riding a motorcycle is easy as pie. There's a balance to be drawn between suck and being safety conscious.

Ruh Roh

or

Troll

I don't know which.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[gowlerk 1,914]

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There's a balance to be drawn between suck and being safety conscious.

And apparently you suck at safety. Not even remotely acceptable here.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[-Joey- 0]

popsjumper

Quote

Because you don't want to be on a student rig with a dinosaur-sized main after you're licensed and have a few jumps under your belt.

Please refrain from telling people what they "want". You have no clue what they want and your use of derogatory terms, i.e., dinosaur-sized, implies smaller is better and that's not true by along shot. You are perpetuating a myth that smaller is better for everyone.

YOU are one of the ones causing the "gotta downsize" and "gotta downsize fast" problems that lead to so many injuries.

Let his local people handle it.

Wrong I never said any of those words that you unjustly put into my mouth. Nowhere did I say "smaller is better." But it's fact that the very first rig a student uses for AFF level 1 is most likely not the size they'll end up using at jump 25 with stamped proficiency card in hand. If students typically go through one downsize (ie 240 to 220 or 220 to 20) between jumps 1 and 25 (as I've observed) then it's not a good idea to buy gear at jump 1 since they'll likely be on something else soon anyway.

Skydiving is serious business

[popsjumper 2]

Do you know the difference between explicit and implicit?

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But it's fact that the very first rig a student uses for AFF level 1 is most likely not the size they'll end up using at jump 25 with stamped proficiency card in hand. If students typically go through one downsize (ie 240 to 220 or 220 to 20) between jumps 1 and 25 (as I've observed) then it's not a good idea to buy gear at jump 1 since they'll likely be on something else soon anyway.

True dat, though it is different than what you implied earlier.
Just asking that you try not to over-emphasize downsizing with youngsters by using terms derogatory to larger canopies. Sometimes people make it sound like immediate downsizing is mandatory or something. We already have way too many unskilled hot rod pilots out here....we surely don't need more.

If you must emphasize downsizing, please, at least do it in a manner that promotes, slow, steady, little-at-a-time progression, OK?

BTW....220 to 20 is rather radical, don't you think?
Yes, it's what you said.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

chemist

Quote

There's a balance to be drawn between suck and being safety conscious.

And apparently you suck at safety. Not even remotely acceptable here.

Obviously, you responded to the wrong person...you meant to respond to "chemist".

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[chemist 0]

ChrisD

***

Quote

...even though I know it's really safe.

Ummm...relative to what ~ Blindfolded Bomb Disposal ?


Before you go in for training ya might want to study up a bit on the risk factor. It's certainly safer than when I started, probably not as safe as it will be in ten years...but make no mistake, you are purposely putting yourself into an environment that does not suffer fools.

Bring your A game, listen, learn, think.

A Disneyland ride is 'really' safe, make the right mistake at the wrong time while skydiving and death or injury are very real consequences.

Funny you mention the Disneyland World death rate.


Splash Mountian 6 dead, mostly from standing up at the end.

Thunder Mountian 2 D, 3 serious fiberglass engine on first car comes off in tunnel.

Skyride worker gets pushed off platform due to other worker starting ride without notice.

Disney is good for 20 or so fatals because of drowning each year. Some of these might be heart attacks.

Car crashes on property, esp after drinking, another 20 or so.

1 chooking in a property food establishment.

Drugs, 2 -4 each year cast as well as public.

Space Mountian, 1 per every 3 years due to undiagnosed congenital defects, sudden death snydrom.

One confirmed suicide in the contemporary hotel, newlywedd Goofy comes home to fine new wife in bed with best man,...

ETC.,


You might be better skydiving on a Velo 100 than going to DW.

C


Dude, what you mean "suck" and "safety" in that last sentance???

Now you have put your foot into it, and I'm going to point out in not as nice as Krissanne points out that you have raised a real issue and shown your true colors, that was a really stupid thing to say, if in fact your a student, and we all are really, you might be forgivin, but I suspect otherwise your really "Gerado" come back to show us all how full of yourself you really are....

You want to learn to swoop, someday, fine, but till then keep your mouth shut, do what your told and learn, and real fast learn not to speak about safety and how you think the world works from your perspective.

I did say suck and safety in the same sentence but I did not mean safety sucks. I meant people who suck seem to be the worst at safety.

From my experience from flying it seems like the safety nazis are the ones who see danger everywhere except under their own two feet. Being severely judgemental is a hazardous attitude that reduces safety. Just as being over confident is hazardous to safety. You have to draw a balance, you don't want to be on either extreme.


I never said I want to start swooping or using equipment out of my league. It sounds like from my limited posts you are stereotyping me and judging me as some sort of reckless person you associate with wanting to swoop?? Don't know what the deal is with that.

So far I have listened to everything people have said, I have no plans for filming anytime soon (did not understand the danger but now I know), and I didn't start this thread about wanting to get the worlds smallest sports canopy.

[popsjumper 2]

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Being severely judgemental is a hazardous attitude that reduces safety.

I don't understand this part. Would you explain?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[gowlerk 1,914]

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Obviously, you responded to the wrong person...you meant to respond to "chemist".

Indeed! You on the other hand seem to have a firm grip on the concept of safety. As do most people in this sport who have enough life experience to remember Firesign Theater!

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[chemist 0]

I'm leaving this forum. I'll talk safety with my local DZ

[chemist 0]

popsjumper

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Being severely judgemental is a hazardous attitude that reduces safety.

I don't understand this part. Would you explain?

I'm just talking about the fire marshall bill types. They heavily criticize others yet they are always getting hurt themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGGmUTUV2kM

[airtwardo 6]

chemist

***

Quote

Being severely judgemental is a hazardous attitude that reduces safety.

I don't understand this part. Would you explain?

I'm just talking about the fire marshall bill types. They heavily criticize others yet they are always getting hurt themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGGmUTUV2kM


Make the link clicky.


FWIW ~ I personally don't know any Fire Marshal Bill types in this sport, usually the ones who talk the talk - walk the walk.

I recommend conservative choices, taking it slow, focusing on the long term goal of kickin' off from old age.

I've been in the sport close to 40 years and I've never been injured doing it.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[popsjumper 2]

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I've been in the sport close to 40 years and I've never been injured doing it.

Not far behind ya'.
Does a minor twist of the knee count?

OTOH, a 20-something broke my heart when she went for some guy her age.



Ummmm...make that 3 20-somethings. What is it with 20-somethings anyway?


My DZO said he likes twenty nine year old girls.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[ChrisD 0]

chemist

yea I guess I don't mean right away, I want to do at least a few jumps to make sure I'm not going to 'wuss out' off skydiving. But I'd like to buy it during my training as motivation, something about jumping out of a freaking airplane requires a lot of motivation.

This is where "we" can no longer tell if your joking with "us" or your really a student.

This is the "Turning Point" or "Tipping Point" where the bulk of this little society has doubts about you.

On one hand money isn't an object, but then you say or perhaps we imply that money is an object?

Then you raise in your words: "Wuss out" ism and purchasing a rig?

As a form of motivation???

You kind of opened the door to a form of banter that is confusing, because of your responses??


So if your a student feel free to keep at this, IN A GOOD WAY,
Ya you will get a few post's about reading other posts, because what you have indicated has been , for the most part discussed elswhere, but on the other hand you have raised an issue that has great relavance to most students and having thier own gear, while being a student.

I have seen, and my most humble apologies, forgotten,...

That most students do seek out particular gear, AND GIVEIN the choice, they get the same rig time and time again,...

even when, in our eyes, an equivalant rig is available!

But it's your eyes that led you to ask this??

Is this what you mean by wanting a "New Chute" one that you can call your own?

C

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[chemist 0]

Money is not an issue in the sense that I can spend an extra $2000 for new rig vs. same thing used. Of course what parachute to get IS an issue.

I just found out the DZ has all brand new parachutes for students where I want to get my license, so thats nice that I'll be able to use brand new stuff similar to what I want to buy. The plan is get the Class A license and buy then. I'll be able to use the brand of parachute I want, and I'll know what size canopies fit in it, and so on.

[chemist 0]

jumping this week by the way : )

I am sure I will start learning very quickly about stuff once I actually start doing this thing.

[jumpinjackflsh 0]

Always words of wisdom, lmao...

Yeah, don't listen to the "it's safer than driving crew, just look at the numbers" bs. if as many people jumped as drove you'd see a significantly different picture.

Your only ammunition is your ears, training, consistency and humble attitude.

Even then there are no guarantees but frankly, the only constant we all know is we are going sometime, not the when or how.

[chemist 0]

just did my 1st AFF jump. Everything went safe and awesome, it probably does make more sense to just buy one their used rigs and save $2000. When given advice at the DZ by the superiors I just keep my mouth shut and listen.

It's a whole different perspective once you're actually there and doing it.

[popsjumper 2]

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just did my 1st AFF jump. Everything went safe and awesome,

Congrats!

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it probably does make more sense to just buy one their used rigs and save $2000.

Personally, I would question that. Student gear gets beat all to hell. If you buy student gear, hve it thoroughly checked by a disinterested 3rd party....some rigger not associated with the DZ in any way. Is that saying the local rigger is dishonest? No, It's saying take the worry out of it.

Keep asking questions.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239