hookitt 0 #1 March 26, 2013 The gap in poptop was 3/4s of an inch. She fired off the reserve before I could get a picture. Considering where this rig came from, it should be nice and tight. The reserve toggles were set up with one captured under the velcro, and one out. The one captured under the velcro will be a lot more difficult to grab, especially under stress. Nowhere in the manual does it say to capture the toggles under the Velcro, or under the bottom tuck slot. I've seen it both ways. Regardless if you're an independent rigger, or factory rigger, if you would please stop tucking the toggle handles out of reach, that would be great. Years ago, I asked a local rigger to stop doing this. He wasn't pleased about it but he said he would. The very next weekend he had a reserve ride and could hardly get his own toggles I borrowed a rig a couple years ago and as luck would have it, I had to cutaway. Guess what... getting the toggles free sucked. Enough stories. Just stop hiding the toggles please. Anyway, here's the photo. Edit: The photo is too big so it looks gigantic. Just click on it instead :)My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,912 #2 March 27, 2013 Where's the like button? We need a like button for stuff like this.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #3 March 27, 2013 Thanks. It's not a comment regarding the rig by the way, it's a comment regarding a toggle packing technique. Considering I'm not a dropzone rigger and I've seen it recently 2 times, that means it's very likely happening fairly regularly in areas FAR AROUND THE GLOBE!!!! Sorry got excited. I figured I'd point it out. I've got my own quirks I'm sure so if people see my work and need to bring anything to my attention, then go for it. Gareth thinks I pack like shit but he's never seen the actual folded parachute, just the closed product so he's exempt from comment haha... My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #4 March 27, 2013 Quote Thanks. It's not a comment regarding the rig by the way, it's a comment regarding a toggle packing technique. Considering I'm not a dropzone rigger and I've seen it recently 2 times, that means it's very likely happening fairly regularly in areas FAR AROUND THE GLOBE!!!! Sorry got excited. I figured I'd point it out. I've got my own quirks I'm sure so if people see my work and need to bring anything to my attention, then go for it. Gareth thinks I pack like shit but he's never seen the actual folded parachute, just the closed product so he's exempt from comment haha... You do have a weird way of packing from what I've seen. Where's those pictures at?"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #5 March 27, 2013 Woops, Forgot about those because my phone broke and no matter how hard you try, without good light, Phone pictures suck. Packing pictures suck in general too! It can be as neat as can be and still look wrinkled. I'll go charge the old phone and see if they're on there. or if I must take others just for you. :) It's not that weird really. I've seen many people do it similar.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #6 March 27, 2013 Quote Gareth thinks I pack like shit but he's never seen the actual folded parachute, just the closed product so he's exempt from comment haha... Just tell Gareth it wouldn't happen if they didn't own a Wings.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parachutist 1 #7 March 27, 2013 Once again everybody has an opinion... here's the other side. I don't like loopy toggles flopping around during deployment. There's another option: fold the excess toward bottom of the toggle and slide it into the bottom keeper. Not so tight, but still out of the way. Grab the riser with thumb on toggle, slide thumb sideways and out comes the excess. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 102 #8 March 27, 2013 QuoteOnce again everybody has an opinion... here's the other side. I don't like loopy toggles flopping around during deployment. There's another option: fold the excess toward bottom of the toggle and slide it into the bottom keeper. Not so tight, but still out of the way. Grab the riser with thumb on toggle, slide thumb sideways and out comes the excess. Chris What does the manufacturer say about your method? Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #9 March 27, 2013 QuoteI don't like loopy toggles flopping around during deployment. There's another option: fold the excess toward bottom of the toggle and slide it into the bottom keeper. Not so tight, but still out of the way. Yeah I understand your point, but, Do your own the way you want to. That's fine. New jumpers with zero reserve rides and not that many jumps shouldn't have to figure out how to grab the controls. Make them obvious. The toggles are plenty secure. The loops are certainly not flopping around in any dangerous manner. Hiding them can be dangerous. Folding them up, then leaving them exposed for easy gripping is smart. It's not just an opinion.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #10 March 27, 2013 I've not only seen it the way you've described, I've also seen the loop pulled tight all the way down and folded under. The rig I borrowed was done up that way. It took extra seconds to get them out. I reached for them and thought to myself.... "Self... you've got to be kidding" I wasn't low so it didn't matter. It's a good way to scare a newb skydiver. (or is it noob). Either way, :) edit: to reply to parachutist instead of myself.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parachutist 1 #11 March 27, 2013 No, folded under wouldn't be good. Folded once and stacked on the toggle is fine IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parachutist 1 #12 March 27, 2013 QuoteQuoteOnce again everybody has an opinion... here's the other side. I don't like loopy toggles flopping around during deployment. There's another option: fold the excess toward bottom of the toggle and slide it into the bottom keeper. Not so tight, but still out of the way. Grab the riser with thumb on toggle, slide thumb sideways and out comes the excess. Chris What does the manufacturer say about your method? Mark I spoke with a rep this afternoon at PIA... we had a container to use for demonstrating options. Paraphrasing our converation: there are a gew things one can do with the excess. This rep has seen it all and tried some over the years. With all this experience he prefers to leave the extra webbing out, folded and stacked on top of the bottom toggle holding slot, same length as the end of that slot. He likes the excess to be out so that people can get toggles in hands more quickly. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #13 March 27, 2013 Is the rep willing to put that in writing or not? With out it being in the manual or in writing then nothing they say matters if its a departure from what is illustrated in the manual they publish.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parachutist 1 #14 March 30, 2013 QuoteIs the rep willing to put that in writing or not? With out it being in the manual or in writing then nothing they say matters if its a departure from what is illustrated in the manual they publish. That's your interpretation. The way I see it: I do everything that's in the Wings manual: "insert toggle into lower pocket". If I choose to dress that pack job in a certain way to improve the chances of a successful reserve deployment, by eliminating loose loops of fabric that could easily snag a small format camera or other object, that's simply my style of packing. I am still following the manual to the letter. Suppose a rigger does his own style of reduction folds... 1 flake up and 2 flakes down. That style of packing is found nowhere in the canopy or container manual, but also it's not disallowed in either. Storing loops of fabric away from snag hazards is similar: just an improved style used by a particular rigger. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #15 March 31, 2013 Quote Gareth thinks I pack like shit but he's never seen the actual folded parachute, just the closed product so he's exempt from comment haha... Wait. What ? I never said that. I merely opined that Ray Charles could have bulked your last attempt better. Sheeesh. You try being constructive and that's the thanks you get. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #16 April 1, 2013 Quote Quote Gareth thinks I pack like shit but he's never seen the actual folded parachute, just the closed product so he's exempt from comment haha... Wait. What ? I never said that. I merely opined that Ray Charles could have bulked your last attempt better. Sheeesh. You try being constructive and that's the thanks you get. Good one! Your constructiveness workedMy grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #17 April 1, 2013 Quote Suppose a rigger does his own style of reduction folds... 1 flake up and 2 flakes down. That style of packing is found nowhere in the canopy or container manual, but also it's not disallowed in either. I just use a stapler to hold everything in it's place. Works great, perfect folds every time! "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #18 April 1, 2013 Quote I just use a stapler to hold everything in it's place. Works great, perfect folds every time! I just pencil pack your packjobs as the folds are perfect . And sometimes I change the sequence of closing flaps to make it more personal scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
