winona ryder verdict

[happythoughts 0]

Some followup from CNN:

CNN

"Additionally, prosecutor Rundle said her office would only seek a sentence that includes probation, community service and restitution to Saks Fifth Avenue"

"prosecutor Rundle told the jury that the state had successfully proven that Ryder had "intent to steal" because "she brought her own burglary tools," including scissors to remove garment tags, a garment bag, and a plastic bag filled with nothing but tissue paper for wrapping up items. "

"prosecution witness Colleen Rainey, the former investigator for Saks' theft-and-loss department, testified she saw Ryder take orange-handled scissors out of her purse and use them to cut out large sensor tags, leaving large holes in designer garments. "

"Ryder has appeared in more than two dozen other movies, including... "Edward Scissorhands." "

Sounds to me like she had a plan. A careful plan. It didn't work. They only want their money back.

[happythoughts 0]

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Did anyone ready to condemn her realize that Saks and other BevHills Blvd. stores regularly do business with celebs and VIPs and their standard operating procedure is the celebs pick out what they want and take it home and then they are billed. No check out, etc. They just watch what she walks out with and send a bill. They do it all the time. The guy who buster her was a new employee of the security company that watches the door. In fact, Saks wanted all charges dropped because they said she didn't do anything wrong but the prosecutors pressured the security company into keeping the charges alive.

According to the testimony of multiple people, she came into the store with scissors to effect her theft. This was not a case of over-zealous security.

[SpeedRacer 1]

I still don't understand why she did it?

Well looks like she's just getting probation, plus she's gotta pay for the clothes she damaged.

but if she goes to jail, well, I heard the California prisons are pretty full, so I would volunteer to put her up in my house...
guess I'm just civic minded

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[Guest]

This is the point I was trying to make. When you're a celeb, you don't do business through the checkout line. The reason is simple - you're in the fishbowl, the public eye.

I know Harrison Ford goes to the hardware store in Jackson to buy nails, etc., but Jackson's a small town (and when you've got neighbors like the Rockefellers, you don't stand out as much, either). Further, I don't think the hardware store owner would object if Ford walked out without paying, because the owner knows he's good for it (I think Ford still owns the Snake River Grill, too, BTW) It's a "duh" thing, just like Saks. The security company screwed the pooch.

Along with all the good stuff (fame and fortune, etc.) of being a celeb comes a dark downside - stalkers and all the other goofballs who think you give their pointless, hopeless, miserable lives some meaning, just because they saw you on the big screen. That, and an utter lack of privacy. Even your garbage is sifted by tabloid shills, and if you complain, you're portrayed as being hostile. How would you like that?

And because you're a public figure, if you go through the regular line, you'll be mobbed by people who want your autograph/photograph ("The girls on my bowling team in Des Moines wont believe me!"), want you to read their script, want you to get them an audition, want you to pay for their heart surgery, etc., etc.

Those that have tried to portray Ryder as an inept shoplifter are totally off base. She didn't get where she is by being stupid.

Unfortunately, because of the way the situation was handled, Saks couldn't stop the prosecution. There should never have been one.

I've said elsewhere about celebrities, that "Their sh*t stinks too." But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be treated with the same common courtesy and respect we would give anybody else. Yes, they have perks, but they pay dearly for them every day.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Scoby 0]

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Do you have any idea, of all of the people arrested for shoplifting in Los Angeles in the last year how many are facing jailtime? Exactly one.

That's a pretty broad statement. Can you support it with data?

"According to an NBC News study of L.A. County records, none of the other 5,000 people prosecuted for shoplifting in the last two years has been hit with such harsh charges — and in two specific cases in Beverly Hills where the alleged amount stolen exceeded that in Ryder's case, both defendants pleaded out with misdemeanors — something that prosecutors have adamantly refused to do for the movie star."

This is from the National Review Online, which was the first search engine entry that came up when I entered "winona ryder shoplifting los angeles" into Google. This isn't hard, folks.

[happythoughts 0]

"And because you're a public figure, if you go through the regular line, "

The regular line at Saks?

"Those that have tried to portray Ryder as an inept shoplifter are totally off base. She didn't get where she is by being stupid. "

I am unsure how she got where she is in terms of her show-business career. After having met a number of successful actors, I don't think stupidity is a stumbling block to an acting career. But I know how she ended up in jail. She is an inept shoplifter.

"Saks couldn't stop the prosecution. There should never have been one. "

Nope, she intended to steal stuff. She was cutting the tags off, she wasn't just wandering out the door saying "taa, taa, bill me later". Saks should prosecute her.

[Guest]

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"And because you're a public figure, if you go through the regular line, "

The regular line at Saks?

"Those that have tried to portray Ryder as an inept shoplifter are totally off base. She didn't get where she is by being stupid. "

I am unsure how she got where she is in terms of her show-business career. After having met a number of successful actors, I don't think stupidity is a stumbling block to an acting career. But I know how she ended up in jail.

>Uh, she posted bail...

She is an inept shoplifter.

>So she has been portrayed. But who knows?

"Saks couldn't stop the prosecution. There should never have been one. "

Nope, she intended to steal stuff. She was cutting the tags off

>So the prosecution witnesses say. Were any of the garments shown in court? I haven't been following the case.

, she wasn't just wandering out the door saying "taa, taa, bill me later". Saks should prosecute her.

>If it was, as has been portrayed, a blatant act of theft, then yes, she should be punished. But what if all the fog of hype and puffery dissipates, and we find that it wasn't the case? Well, at least it's over. She won't be doing any time, and her career won't suffer.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Scoby 0]

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Nope, she intended to steal stuff. She was cutting the tags off, she wasn't just wandering out the door saying "taa, taa, bill me later". Saks should prosecute her.

It certainly seems that her intent was to steal. She certainly should have been prosecuted. She also should have had the opportunity to plea-bargain to a misdemeanor. This whole affair was disgusting.

[happythoughts 0]

[reply
>But what if all the fog of hype and puffery dissipates, and we find that it wasn't the case? Well, at least it's over. She won't be doing any time, and her career won't suffer.

She is so inept as a shoplifter that cut her finger while cutting the tags off the clothes.

The fog of hype has lifted. She's guilty. She may be cute and famous and all that, but she's guilty.

"She won't be doing any time, and her career won't suffer"

Oh, thank God. We wouldn't want her or her career to suffer.

The only impact to her is that she has to pay for the stuff that she should have paid for in the first place. I know that seems harsh.

[clrarch 0]

Does anyone know if they presented the clothes she cut the tags off of as evidence? There's been all this talk about the security person who saw her cutting the clothes, and her being caught with the clothes, so were the cut clothes presented as evidence in the tiral? It seems funny to me they wouldn't be because it would be pretty damning evidence, don't you think?

[Guest]

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Does anyone know if they presented the clothes she cut the tags off of as evidence? There's been all this talk about the security person who saw her cutting the clothes, and her being caught with the clothes, so were the cut clothes presented as evidence in the tiral? It seems funny to me they wouldn't be because it would be pretty damning evidence, don't you think?

One would think so, but like I said, I haven't been following the case. The point I was making is that things aren't always the way they seem.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[happythoughts 0]

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One would think so, but like I said, I haven't been following the case. The point I was making is that things aren't always the way they seem.

The only logical next step is to send her an email with a copy of this thread. Highlight the points that show your undying support and belief in her. Include your home phone number in case she just need to "vent". With that type of loyalty and perseverence, marriage is just around the corner. (Well, that or a stalking conviction. Maybe you could use her lawyer. )

Guilty dammit. She's guilty. She's cute and waif-like and needs the protection of a strong manly-man to get her through these "hard" times, but she's guilty. She had socks stuffed in her pockets.

[PhillyKev 0]

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She had socks stuffed in her pockets.

So do I, but that's just to impress the ladies. Maybe she's not a shoplifter, just a lesbian.

[SpeedRacer 1]

Thanks, PhillyKev! Thank God I'm not the only one who is trying to lower this Very Serious Discussion down to the usual level of this forum!!

Speed Racer
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[happythoughts 0]

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She had socks stuffed in her pockets.

So do I, but that's just to impress the ladies. Maybe she's not a shoplifter, just a lesbian.

The reason why it hasn't been working is that the socks go in the front of the pants.

A well-hung lesbian has thicker fingers than hers.

[blewaway5 0]

Ok, everyone, just to throw my .02c in, who really cares if she did or did not mean to steal the crap? In all honesty I could care less what she or any of the other stars and starlets do with theeir time as long as they are treated fairly. In this situation it seems kinda ridiculous to bring such harsh charges since they obviously don't do this with everyone. Also it strikes me as just plain nuts that we as a country really invest so much value into what a person who makes movies for a living does in their spare time that people will stalk them and go through their garbage, etc, etc. Who cares?!?!

Truman Sparks for President

[jraf 0]

BURN HER!!! Burn the fucking witch!!!

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[SpeedRacer 1]

she turned me into a newt!!

Speed Racer
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[skymama 35]

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Does anyone know if they presented the clothes she cut the tags off of as evidence?

If I remember correctly, they showed the clothes as evidence, and there were holes in them where the sensors were. Plus, they found the sensors, with the matching material stuck in them, stuffed in the pocket of a garmet that was hanging on the floor.

Shoplifting is an addictive thing, just like any other addictive behavior. Instead of skydiving, that's the activity that probably gives her a high. I'm sure she's been doing it for years. I used to work in the Bridge department (expensive clothes) of a store. You'd be amazed at how many seemingly high class women stole from us.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[happythoughts 0]

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Shoplifting is an addictive thing, just like any other addictive behavior.

The nice thing about being a kleptomaniac is that you can take something for it.