PLFXpert 0 #1 December 8, 2002 before you develop bad ones... I'm just curious...who would recommend that tunnel time be required as an 8th or 9th (if you count the hop-n-pop as #8) level to AFF? I was very fortunate and had a good friend who would take me to the tunnel when I had just finished AFF, then I got a job for that company. I haven't been in a LONG time (I need to go!) but I had no problems and I feel it helped me a lot. From what I've heard from others, sometimes jumpers with several hundred jumps go to the tunnel for the first time and can't seem to stay in the center. I was talking about this w/ a friend and we both agreed it would help so many new jumpers to improve if they were to have at least half an hour in the tunnel as part of AFF. I realize that tunnels are not plentiful in every state and would not be logical in that sense to require, but I know they're in the process of setting up several more in the US so that at least everyone would be w/in a few hours of one. At that point...I might say, let's re-evaluate and maybe make it a requirement. What do you guys think?Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 December 8, 2002 A requirement? No. A good instructor can teach the same skills as a tunnel in a resonable amount of time. If anything, I think that it should be recommended. For jumpers in the middle of the US a tunnel is pretty much out of the question with out dropping a good deal of cash. For not as much money a jumper could go through Skydive U. and learn many of the same skills.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lippy 775 #3 December 8, 2002 There was a pretty lengthy discussion on this in the RW forum not too long ago. Check this out: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=233439;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unreadI got nuthin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #4 December 8, 2002 Point taken, but as you'll see if you re-read my post, I said only after more tunnels were put up would I think we should consider the notion. Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 35 #5 December 8, 2002 I think that when it's time to be signed off for the A license, that jumpers should go through another canopy class, something more advanced than what they get in their AFF classes. The learning curve is so steep when we are students and there is SO much to remember, I think everyone could benefit from a few extra hours of ground school once they have become a little more comfortable in the air. I took Scott Miller's class (he's with PD) at about 50 jumps, and then a more advanced class at 200 jumps. I couldn't believe how much better I understood the canopy concepts that he went over with me again. Instead of just taking his word for it, like I did the first time, I had the ol' lightbulb going off over my head the second time when it all made so much more sense to me. This is all very fresh in my head because I heard this afternoon that a friend biffed in on his 100th jump because he didn't flare on a straight in approach. I think he's going to be ok, but he's broken up a bit.She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #6 December 8, 2002 No way. I think it's a great idea for anyone to get tunnel time, but even after there are a few more in operation it would be absurd to ask EVERY student to travel several hundred miles just to jump in a wind tunnel. There aren't enough tunnels now, and it's not financially sound to build one in every, or even every other, state. I think that the tunnel is a great learning tool, but the basic skills that you're talking about can be learned in the air with a good instructor and video. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #7 December 8, 2002 Quoteit's time to be signed off for the A license, that jumpers should go through another canopy class, Boyohboyohboy do I agree. Fatalities rarely happen in freefall... Someone (here) questioned why I was going to spend the money on canopy control class at such low jump numbers, when I should be spending it on RW coaching, 'cause that's what I should do in their opinion. After all, that's what lots of people do, right? But I took it anyway, starting at #40, and while I am still not anything to shake a stick at landing wise, I do understand what's going on up there...and am not left to trying to figure it out 100 feet at a time, scared out of my wits - or figuring it out simply by watching someone else, who is better than me, but might not be all that good ('cause what do I know about how to tell if they're good or not, other than they don't tank it?). The AFF course I took didn't really teach me anything about canopy control. But I also don't think that canopy control can be taught there, because there is sooooo much to do during freefall, and learning to survive that.... The only difficulty I had about the canopy control class is limiting someone to having their own canopy before getting the training. I'd rather spend the $$ on the class, learn all sorts of stuff, get more confident before getting my own canopy, but I also "get" the reasons behind it - learning on the same canopy you'll be jumping for a while, learning about risers, trim, brake line length, and so forth for the particular canopy so you can then learn to fly it. I vote for canopy control class...it may not be as fun as RW coaching, but it may save your leg or back or life.... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skr 1 #8 December 9, 2002 > I think that when it's time to be signed off > for the A license, that jumpers should go through > another canopy class Even more than that the first 30 or 40 jumps should be mostly about canopy flying and general parachuting, with a little freefall stuff tossed in for entertainment. Not as in hold them back on the freefall stuff, but don't let them loose until they show some signs of flying their canopy without scaring anybody. Canopy flying and landing are complicated and people really need a good, systematic introduction. I re arranged the order and emphasis of the coaching part of the ISP at our drop zone to reflect that attitude. The details are at the bottom of the page http://indra.net/~bdaniels/ftw/ but it looks something like this: ------------------------------------------------------------- Jump | | | | Numbers | Canopy | | | | Control | | | | | | | | | Exit | | | | | Separation | | | | | | | | | Packing | | | | | | | | | Manifesting | | \ / | Gear Rental | | | | | | | |-------------------| | | | | | | Freefall | Cessna | | | | Recess Playground | | | | | | | | | Spotting | | | | Tracking | | | | | | | | | | \ / | (Moving students from being told) |-------------------| | (every little move to being able) | | | (to take care of themselves ) Freefall | | | | Docks | | | Swoops | | | | Exits | | | | | ------------------------------------------------------------- \ / | ----------------- > ----------------- > ------------------> A License | Proficiency card requirements + Calhan enhancements Skr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #9 December 9, 2002 I'm guessing that it didn't turn out how you had formatted it, huh? Sucks when that happens, doesn't it. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skr 1 #10 December 9, 2002 > I'm guessing that it didn't turn out how you had formatted it, huh? Pretty quick on the trigger :-) :-) I was still trying various markup edits when you saw it and responded. Skr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #11 December 9, 2002 Hey, I'm a post-whore and was just sharing your frustration when ascii formating here, sometimes you can get stuff to turn out right, sometimes they don't...hehe --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
