sar911 0 #76 January 11, 2003 Jim, I'm with you, I believe !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smiles 0 #77 January 11, 2003 I'm not sure.... Wow, I'm so happy I wasn't raised as a child to, so can make my own decisions....my son is reading Ishmael in English 12 and said I should give it a read........ Did the entire cosmic process of creation come to an end right here on this little planet with the appearance of man??..evolution didn't come to a halt, the planetary process of creation didn't come to a halt....mans appearance caused no more stir than the jellyfish's. Our Religions: are they the Religions of Humanity Itself? In spite of the terrible mess we've made of this planet, we do think we can run the world, and if we continue to think this, it is going to be the death of us. Was man in fact born to become an agriculturalist and civilization builder?? Why do we need religion? Why are new ones being created every day?...because we still profoundly feel that we do not know how to live? There is no one right way for people to live--never has been and never will be. ah..I wonder often but my partner was raised a jehovah witness by his mother/ mom & dad separated due to religion/....he has after 9-11 decided to read the bible, and recently announced he wants to study with the jehovah witness's. I am afeared for our relationship. I simply asked him to let me know what changes will take place in our relationship....??? Now I am tempted to find everything I know "wrong" about jehovahs religion, to help him out/ ...wrong move. To each their own/ but don't dare try to preach to me/ or save me..thanx very much. Smiles Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #78 January 11, 2003 Quote he wants to study with the jehovah witness's. I am afeared for our relationship. I simply asked him to let me know what changes will take place in our relationship....??? Funny thing...People always hate Jehovah witness`s,why?they allways com and knok at your door... At my near A there are a couple that belive in that way,and they contacted me ather they saw that i jumped rigth out their front door.They offered me beer after a jump,and we had a long good talk.Then 3 weeks later they told me what they belived in..My first thourgth were..F### let me out of here..But then they asked me,i answered that im an atheist,and it were okay by them,it havent been mentioned since.Still talking whith them and have a good laugh. On ICQ i were contacted by a muslim girl(wery much a muslim),i still talk to her and we respect each other.. I do belive that the first thing that goes bad in this world are the fact that we dont respect each other enouf. There will always bee the bad guys that knock at your door,thouse from 9-11 and so on,but actualy they aint the same all of them.Or lets take a look at our self.. Who are we to help israel?They have lost 700people,the other 2000...is that a dair war? I think in this world we ALL keep togeter to kill eachother..Its the only point we can agree,they are different we dont like them..(its the same at both sides.. I dont defend any kind of terro or war,just saying that if we are smart enouf to make thouse things we do why then figth eachother.If we didnt developed weappons to figth religion,we migth could safe lifes somewere else for the mony.. Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #79 January 11, 2003 QuoteIt does not logically work. Yes it does. The sum total of all religions is exactly zero. QuoteUnless you KNOW EVERYTHING about every atom and molecule in the entire universe, you cannot KNOW that there is not a god, although you may truly believe that god does not exist. Wrong again, godbot. Absolute knowledge is not needed to evaluate the situation of a deity. The godbots, jesus freaks, islamists, hidus, etc... have never been correct. There is no god.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #80 January 11, 2003 QuoteThen you shoud use that education to make an intelligent choice. I did, I quit believing in sky pixies, demons, devils, angels, omens, signs and all other things that children are generally afraid of. QuoteI'm not saying that you are any lesser a person for choosing not to believe in "God" or a god but you should think about it a little more in depth.Yes you are. You are saying that I should think like you. You are also saying that because you believe in some kind of mythological sky pixie that you are better than me. QuoteFirst of all you seem to think that faith in god is a bad thing but faith in science is okay. It is the same thing. Nothing in science can be proven and neither can that in religion. So you have randomly chosen to put your faith in science because that is what you can reach out and touch. First, I don't have faith or "believe" in science. I KNOW of science. The facts are that EVERYTHING in science can be proven. All data are subject to verification and repeating. That's what proof is all about. In brief, it works like this: I do an experiment, gather the results, apply the results to the question I was testing and write up my findings. I then submit the project for critical review. The review people then proceed to probe for any and all weaknesses, any errors and any other problem with any aspect of the project. It is then either accepted or rejected. To make matters even better, there will be some researcher somewhere that will recreate the experiment and vefiy the results. In the end, you have something to KNOW rather than believe. Nothing in any religion anywhere can stand up to that kind of review. Mythology fails miserably to present a working model for understanding anything. QuoteThere is, in fact evidence to support that there was first cause for the universe. Everything you see, everything you can lay your eyes upon has a cause. So why wouldn't the universe? Where is your evidence for the first cause of the universe? In what peer reviewed journal can I find it? Where is the experiment that I can repeat the supports the conclusion of first cause? Where? It's no where. It does not exist. Neither does any deity.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #81 January 11, 2003 It's YOUR god, YOUR rules, YOU go to hell.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hagar 0 #82 January 11, 2003 QuoteThere is no god. Problem is, you definitly can't prove that either. Is it impossible to prove Gods existence? I am not asking about any particular god-proof, just the possibility or impossibility of such proof.--- PCSS #10 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #83 January 11, 2003 QuoteYes you are. You are saying that I should think like you. You are also saying that because you believe in some kind of mythological sky pixie that you are better than me That do all religions say,thats why we have war... Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Genn 0 #84 January 11, 2003 No way!!!By any chance there is a "God"...he is no ! I don't believe in anything that I can't see, touch, hear, etc. Too many bad things happen to too many good people. If he is really out there...he is a prick! My 2 cents. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tb62871 0 #85 January 11, 2003 I dont know. What i really don't know is if we need to burn this much space to not chang anybodys mind. --TB Welcome my friends to the show that never ends. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #86 January 11, 2003 If someone were to walk up to me today and say.. I am going to ask you a question. If you answer yes I will kill you. If you answer no you can walk. The question? Do you believe in God? My answer right before I kick his ass... YES!! Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lewmonst 0 #87 January 11, 2003 Quoteoh no! dont give up! that is exactly the point. true religion (anyones) is a matter of faith.. the only sin is in blindly accepting someone else 'truth' about divinity, not looking critically, for yourself, with your own eyes, and interpretations, question the 'facts' as they are presented to you and come to your own conclusions on the nature of god. if he/she is out there and cares to show you you will find enlightenment, without the need for anyone elses dogmas or control... the answer is in the seeking.. Zennie Wins!!! ha, this has been an interesting argument to follow. I have to give my kudos to Zenister's responses. Especially this one. I respect everyone and their right to believe in whatever they choose. I have no respect for anyone who blindly accepts religion and faith like a hereditary disease or out of fear. I respect proofs, method and analysis. The one philosophy class I took in college was by far the most colossal waste of my time. Physics just makes more sense, to me. Think for yourself. That is respectable no matter what conclusion you come to. peacehttp://www.exitshot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #88 January 11, 2003 We as people spend far too much time intellectually rationalizing what we already know in our hearts. We think that we are above so much, that we are the center and the all. That life is all about us. We flatly deny or qustion a supreme being, because we don't want to have to answer to one later.... I choose to believe, because my heart tells me to. JJJJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #89 January 11, 2003 Quotei'm surprised by this statement. after all, God created man after his > own image. God has an appendix? And feet that evolved from a primate's? And the teeth of an omnivore? And did he start out looking like a Neanderthal, and then change his appearance as man evolved? Or did he start out looking like a Cro-Magnon, and just waited for us to catch up? The idea of an all-powerful male deity that need not live on the earth, but looks exactly like someone who evolved to do just that, is a little hard to swallow. As I've said before, I don't believe in the god-as-cosmic-trickster theory. Yes, if you believe the bible literally, then you have the evidence you need to convince yourself that he looks just like us. But to do that you have to swallow a whole lot of other self-contradictions and just plain wrong stuff that's scattered throughout the bible. This is not what Christians believe. Actually, pagans (wiccans are the modern version) usually think of God as having physical form resembling humans (ie. two arms ,two legs, etc.) They even have different Gods with different appearances, like Apollo with his chariot, Isis, etc. Christians believe in a God that is omnipotent & omnipresent, &therefore does not have a physical form. When the Bible says man was created in God's image, its referring to the fact that we have an intellect and a free will. That's the part of us that was made in the image of God. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #90 January 11, 2003 The burden of proof lies with believers. Believers make the claim that there is a deity, and that one must do X,Y,Z in order to please that deity. Therefore it is the duty of the believer to support his claim. The atheist, on the other hand, has a much simpler task. We only have to examine the evidence and arguments presented and then confirm or debunk the claims. The claim can also be made the absence of evidence is evidence of absence. However, this is a weak claim at best. Consider the vast amount of negative evidence that exists concerning the existence or non existence of a deity. Everything from unfulfilled prophecy to conflicting claims. Thousands of years of emerging religions, each claiming monopoly on the truth, just like their predecessors, and each failing to deliver on the claims made. Negative evidence is confirmation of absence.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #91 January 11, 2003 Yep, 24,000 of them in the last 1000 years. The vast majority (94.8%) driven, caused or exacerbated by religion.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #92 January 11, 2003 Tink: this thread could go on forever. But if you are interested in why an intelligent person would believe in God or religion, I would recommend reading Mere Christianity by CS Lewis. Its not a long book, and lucidly explains the motivations behind faith. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunman 0 #93 January 11, 2003 QuoteThe sum total of all religions is exactly zero. This may be true. Hell, it probably is. But what does that have to do with the existence of a god? Maybe all religions ARE bullshit. Maybe they are ALL wrong. That has nothing to do with whether or not god exists. QuoteWrong again, godbot. Ease up on the personal attacks there, buddy. I have neither proposed the existence of god nor have I attempted to propagate any one creed or dogma. QuoteIt's YOUR god, YOUR rules, YOU go to hell. Who said anything about rules and hell? I thought the discussion was about whether or not god exists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #94 January 11, 2003 Diferent minds,diferent grow up,difrent people,diferent food,diferent collor and so on. We are lucky to be diferent,or it could be one borring life we would live,huh.. Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #95 January 11, 2003 Threads about god and religion have a lifespan all their own. On the NG's , it is pretty much endless. This is a good thing because I never get tired of debating it.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #96 January 11, 2003 Religion is the means by which deities are manifest. They are always hostile to those who are critical. The existence of a deity is dependent on the existence of religion. The two are inseparable. The fact is that religion is horseshit and so is god. Sorry if you took the hell thing personal, but when doing combat with theists, I find a quick strike is more effective than a slow defense.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #97 January 11, 2003 "Adam was standing in the garden, lonley. GOD said, "Adam, you look lonley, how would you like this?" Poof... there a figure stood in front of ADAM. Adam said, " Oh my... This is the most beautiful and PERFECT creature that you have created, of course I would like one." God Responded, "It is yours, but it is going to cost you!" "how much?" asked adam "An arm and a Leg" said god Adam thought for a moment and said, " GOD, What could I get for a Rib?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #98 January 11, 2003 Nope. Isn't that obvious?Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #99 January 11, 2003 Yup, there would be very short debates as well.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #100 January 11, 2003 Tink, the burden of proof rests with the individual. It's not a matter of taking sides, cause there are way too many sides duking it out. Part of the problem is human nature to want to be right, to prove what we think and force others to see our way. Too many cooks so to speak. All the bullshit boils down to what you have faith in. I have spent the last thirteen years looking and listening to everybodies take on God I could find. Some interesting points were made, but all in all nobody can absolutely prove anything. I guess thats why its called faith. Despite all the arguments for or against every angle of God, it came down to me asking for an answer and God answering. It has been that way ever since. I ask and if I am listening I get an answer. Maybe not the one I want, nor in the way I would like to get it. But an answer none the less. Personally I'd love a burning bush and some stone tablets delivered, via FedEx to me from God. It would take a lot of guess work out of the process. I consider myself to be a fairly intelligent person. I understand I know little about anything and that I have the potential to learn. I could be wrong on the exsistence of God. But it feels right. It's hard to defend a feeling, or convince anyone on the exsistense of God on a feeling. Maybe it would be easy to defend a belief had I been raised that way and taught it from childhood. But such is not the case. With concerns to any God beliefs I was a blank slate so to speak. JJJJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
