wmw999 2,122 #51 January 23, 2003 Not every question is about the WTC. Anyway, how did the US let someone go who was imprisoned in Israel? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowpullin1 0 #52 January 23, 2003 well look at it like this. the terrorist just killed about 4,000 people, the unborn fetus has done nothing to hurt anyone. and yes some people just need killing. "It's hard to fly with the eagles when you are surrounded by turkeys." My Website Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NtheSeaOrSky 0 #53 January 23, 2003 OK What if you knew for certain the fetus was going to be a terrorist/Hitler, etc.? Could you kill it then, knowing it would save millions of lives?? I really don't think there is a right or a wrong answer...everyone has their choice to choose what they believe. That being said, is the right to choose what you do with your own body any different from the right to think and form your own opinions??? ~~~stirring the pot~~~Life is not fair and there are no guarantees... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #54 January 23, 2003 >What if you knew for certain the fetus was going to be a > terrorist/Hitler, etc.? >Could you kill it then, knowing it would save millions of lives?? Nope, because you can't know that - we learned that from Heisenburg. You can't predict the future with any accuracy. And that's not just a philosophical angle, that's a law of physics. >That being said, is the right to choose what you do with your own > body any different from the right to think and form your own > opinions??? To some degree, yes. You can't do drugs, kill yourself, stand naked on a streetcorner or sell your body for sex, even though those are all things you do with your own body. Personally I think that those are sorta questionable laws, since it is your own body that's the issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NtheSeaOrSky 0 #55 January 23, 2003 awe, c'mon now bill, play by the rules.... the question wasn't can you know.....it was if you knew just a hypothetical situation of course, but if you knew without a shadow of a doubt could you kill it???Life is not fair and there are no guarantees... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #56 January 24, 2003 Quote Nope, because you can't know that - we learned that from Heisenburg. You can't predict the future with any accuracy. And that's not just a philosophical angle, that's a law of physics. I predict, by the tingling sensation in my nose, that I will soon sneeze. I'm right 90% of the time! LOL And yeah Bill, play by the rules! If I knew (beyond reasonable doubt) that the fetus will grow to become a baby, then from baby to adult, then adult to mass murderer, I would become a part of it's life in one way or another... I'd dedicate my life to obtaining info on said fetus/baby/adult/murderers upcoming crimes (All the while trying to stop them) until it was time... Then kill him/her!... I would not feel guilt. I don't think that's really the question anyway. We speak of the LAWS of mathematics, the LAWS or physics and the FORCES of Nature. I think the last should be considered LAW as well. Killing is Killing but abortion is not murder! Again, all creatures on this planet end the lives of their own offspring for many different reasons (without worry that some other animal of the same species will bomb their clinic!). Not forgetting that we humans have intellegence and morality which seperate us from beast, we are still creatures of this earth and must act like it. If someone is killed to prevent the death of many others, it is justified. In some cases, (saving private Ryan style) the opposite is true. The point is that killing is NATURAL. We will never rid mankind of this act. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #57 January 24, 2003 >I'd dedicate my life to obtaining info on said > fetus/baby/adult/murderers upcoming crimes (All the while trying to > stop them) until it was time... Then kill him/her!... I would not feel > guilt. Well, now, you have to play by the rules too. If anyone here saw someone pointing a gun at another person and pulling the trigger, I doubt anyone would disagree that you should try to stop them. Most people here would probably agree that deadly force would be appropriate if that was your only option. But what if you had this case? Would you kill that same person, just 20 years earlier? Personally, I would not. I don't believe in the ends justifying the means. You can kill someone in self defense or in defense of others if there's an immediate threat, not if there's just a possible threat. This theory is in all our laws. Cops can't shoot a suspect because he's unconscious and on drugs, even if it's likely he will come to and get very violent. If he _does_ get violent and pulls out a knife, then the situation changes. You can't shoot a man on the street even if he looks scary, and even if you suspect (or are even 99.9% sure!) he will burgle your house in a few days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #58 January 24, 2003 Quote You can't do drugs, kill yourself, stand naked on a streetcorner or sell your body for sex, even though those are all things you do with your own body. Personally I think that those are sorta questionable laws, since it is your own body that's the issue. actually Bill you can kill yourself. Suicide isnt illegal, failing in the attempt is however ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #59 January 24, 2003 Quote>I'd dedicate my life to obtaining info on said > fetus/baby/adult/murderers upcoming crimes (All the while trying to > stop them) until it was time... Then kill him/her!... I would not feel > guilt. But what if you had this case? Would you kill that same person, just 20 years earlier? No, that's just my point. If I knew this fetus was to grow to become a mass murderer, I would still wait until he/she grew up and displayed signs of this... then kill. There's no reason to take away the innocent years I guess. But in this example, we are killing to avoid killings. Abortion in general is not like this. You are killing to avoid a terrible life. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #60 January 24, 2003 Quote actually Bill you can kill yourself. Suicide isnt illegal, failing in the attempt is however Suicide is illegal, they just sentence you to life in jail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #61 January 24, 2003 QuoteQuote IMHO, in Illinois all juries in "capital" cases should be given a presentation describing the cases where: ... Jailhouse informers were given reduced sentences in exchange for their testimony, ... Maybe then we'd stop putting innocent people on Death Row. All the the cases you described could lend themselves to putting innocent people on Death Row but I don't see how one criminal ratting out another for a bargain sentence would. Certainly, when a jailed criminal testifies, their testimony is taken with a grain of salt and it is ALWAYS made aware if there was some sort of agreement to reduce scentence. Also, let's not assume that the law enforcement system is eager to reduce scentences of confirmed guilty prisoners. Thus, when this sort of deal is made, it is made with good cause. As far as a jailed criminals testimony puttin an innocent on death row? What would a criminal already IN jail know about an innocent? How could one possibly pin the rap on someone they obviously would have to contact to? Nobody is going to the chair based on criminal testimony alone. You are SO mistaken. I guess you have not followed the various fiascos in Illinois. Every scenario I described has happened in Illinois, and resulted in a death sentence for someone subsequently found to be innocent.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kopelen 0 #62 January 24, 2003 Your second paragraph and two comments don't jive, but thanks for your input though. But what the heck if your behind bars with no chance of parole you probably took someone's life or close to it. But what would I know lol!!!!Your logic not mine!! PM me if you like to discuss it!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
