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nerd137

Bad exit, big FAIL for AFF3

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Geez guys, you're not actually getting upset about this, are you?

This is sooooo not that big of a deal. Let's try some relaxation techniques...BREATHE IN....BREATHE OUT...BREATHE IN...BREATHE OUT. There, now group hug everyone!:P

I understand all the points of view here and I have made my decision. Of course, if this is some kind of personal rivalry that has nothing really to do with my situation, then by all means, "FIGHT!"B|

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With only 5 jumps, students don't know what licence is what, or what they stand for, yet, in some cases.



HA! Read the SIM cover to cover, baby! ('Nerd' isn't just a clever nickname! Hahaha.)



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As I said :P
"yet, in some cases."


www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

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Ref: By the way, the RAPS method sounds scary as fuck! Man, I'm glad I'm going the AFF route!

It wasn't the RAPS system or the jumping out of the plane that scared me. It was the ride up, I mean, what if I fell out? How would I cope? Was falling & jumping THAT much different? Yes it was. One was MY choice the would not have been. What help me get over the fear of falling out, was it more altitude? NO Two consecutive 5 second delays from 2K2 (cloudscrapers).

RAPS has some advantages over AFF (although AFF is probably the best way into the sport if you have the money spare). BIG SMILE, RELAX & ENJOY IT & the dive will work.

You seem to know what YOU want to do, do it, have fun & stay safe.

.


Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

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you don't practice getting unstable in the tunnel either.



You don't have any tunnel time do you....:S



I did 30 minutes of tunnel coming back from a pause. I restarted at Perris at their L4 (which is typically the L3 release dive elsewhere). I did no work on unstable moves or recovery. I don't see how an AFF student should.

So it won't help on exits or recovering from flips, though it sounds like he already has the latter part down nice. He'll get the first part sometime over the next number of exits.

The tunnel time will improve his freefall and should increase the comfort level, which indirectly solves a lot of problems. As Brian G has been posting, scared divers tend to be tense, which doesn't help form. It's an investment of 1.5 AFF jumps to work on the skills of L3, 4, 5.

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you don't practice getting unstable in the tunnel either.



You don't have any tunnel time do you....:S



I did 30 minutes of tunnel coming back from a pause. I restarted at Perris at their L4 (which is typically the L3 release dive elsewhere). I did no work on unstable moves or recovery. I don't see how an AFF student should.

So it won't help on exits or recovering from flips, though it sounds like he already has the latter part down nice. He'll get the first part sometime over the next number of exits.

The tunnel time will improve his freefall and should increase the comfort level, which indirectly solves a lot of problems. As Brian G has been posting, scared divers tend to be tense, which doesn't help form. It's an investment of 1.5 AFF jumps to work on the skills of L3, 4, 5.



***
Let me ask you this.

How many AFF students have you Instructed, that have a some sort of problem during their AFF training, and after coming back from the tunnel they BREEZED thought the rest of the AFF course?

Hmmm?

The tunnel will help him... ;)



Ed
www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

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I believe I clearly said that in my last paragraph. You might read rather than look for fights. I answered your question to Matt - perhaps you're confused?

But it won't help with unstable exits. That's a different problem to solve. And he will, with or without the tunnel. He's better off having screwed up a jump. He was tested and appears to have reacted well to it. Compare that to someone who had 7 uneventful AFF jumps. I'd rather be person #1.

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You might read rather than look for fights.



I'm not looking for fights. You seem to be the one that is confused.

What I am looking for is lowtime/non istructor jumpers that have NO IDEA of what they are talking about GIVING ADVISE to someone that is trying to learn.

The tunnel will help with all aspect of his jump, including his exit.
Being more relaxed for the jump and knowing he will be able to remain stable will help him center his focus to being stable on the relative wind as he leaves the plane. I HAVE seen it done by quit a few students that have been to the tunnel.


Ed
www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

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I agree tunnel time can help you in freefall... but you said your problem was going fetal on your last exit. Other than giving you more self-confidence... you can't practice exits in the tunnel and you don't practice getting unstable in the tunnel either.



While I have discussed this privately with Nick, I will also comment here... I taught his FJC and was on both Level 1 & 2. Other JMs were on his L3. You make some good points, but ultimately it is the AFF-I's responsibility. The tunnel will benefit him more than jumping. Nick can post his results later.

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I'm doing my AFF atm, and getting through it pretty quickly. The way I approach each stage is once your in the air, you are jumping, even if you screw it up by missing p/p you are still jumping.. so take your time during your jump and go through everything step by step, as long as you maintain altiude awareness you will be fine. The jumps a designed for you to go through it all slowly, you do have time.
Also, before you jump go through it over and over in your head, perfect every time - if you miss something keep going and go through it again perfectly.

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Also, before you jump go through it over and over in your head, perfect every time - if you miss something keep going and go through it again perfectly.



Have to agree with you on this point. It helped me sitting at home in a darkened room thinking my way throught the jump from start to finish.

To Nerd137

Look around you when climbing to altitude and you will see very experienced jumpers with their eyes closed going throught the dive, move by move. And these are the guys who are good. Watch, listen & ask, you learn a lot that way.


Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

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The key for me to passing was that I could ALWAYS get stable quickly.



Really? At what level were you able to regain stability like that? I'm not there yet, but I'm excited thinking about getting to the point where I can continually reposition myself at will. Ya know?

~nerd



Just my .02 as well, but I was so broke during my training that I would often go weeks between jumps, so I would practice my arch on the living room floor, rehearse the dive flow in the shower and re-reread Poynter's book (severely dog-eared now). When the jump finally happened I felt like I'd already done it before--deja vu.

Bear this in mind, though: I did my AFF 2 out of a King Air. Lost one instructor upon exit, flew back-to-earth for about 5K before getting belly-to-earth at 8K. I had spinning problems until AFF 5 (practiced endlessly on living room floor, was mad and made my mind up that I would NOT accept any spin and would correct with as extreme a counter turn as required) End result it worked! AFF 5 was a breakthrough jump. I still sweated like a death row prisoner on the ride up, but I stayed on heading, turned in both directions and did the entire dive flow. Of course I felt like I was having a heart attack upon deployment. My instructor told me during the de-brief that I didn't appear to be breathing during the entire freefall. DOHHH!!!!
“Keep your elbow up!"

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I did my AFF 2 out of a King Air. Lost one instructor upon exit, flew back-to-earth for about 5K before getting belly-to-earth at 8K.



lol...I feel better now. Hee hee hee.:P

Did your instructors ever catch up to you, or were you on your own for the whole dive?

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I had spinning problems until AFF 5 (practiced endlessly on living room floor, was mad and made my mind up that I would NOT accept any spin and would correct with as extreme a counter turn as required)



I had a turning problem (like spining but not as fast, it felt fast to me) on my RAPS freefall jumps. I could stop it with a counter turn but this meant I had less control over intentional turns (cause turned out to be left knee dropped slightly). I was advised to just forget about stopping the turn & RELAX MORE, hard for ME to do but when I did the turn stopped and I was locked on heading.
The point is, if you are spinning/turning then your body position is wrong, don't counter the spin/turn, CORRECT THE CAUSE which is often a dropped knee so relaxing & arching usually works.


Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

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I did my AFF 2 out of a King Air. Lost one instructor upon exit, flew back-to-earth for about 5K before getting belly-to-earth at 8K.



lol...I feel better now. Hee hee hee.:P

Did your instructors ever catch up to you, or were you on your own for the whole dive?



My reserve side JM stayed with me the whole time, but it took a while for the main side JM to catch up. He had me by 8K.

I'd never seen someone in freefall before--so I'm like "Wow! That is so coooool . . . " as he came right at me. I got flipped over and maintained alti awareness (that's all I accomplished on that jump beside a decent landing).

I think my instructors were a bit rattled/pissed off at me, but my primary instructor didn't show it during the debrief. He just calmly told me that I'd have to get my body (and rig) out the door better so it wouldn't catch in the rather small doorway of the King Air. I'm 6'1"--200lbs.

BTW, I wasn't actually spinning on my early "release dives", but had this annoying slow turn to the left. My decision to counter instead of just being passive must have helped me feel more in control--therefore more relaxed--I've never had a problem with holding heading since.

Let's put it this way: I was definately NOT a "natural" at freefall, but I WAS highly motivated--failure was not an option.;)
“Keep your elbow up!"

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My decision to counter instead of just being passive must have helped me feel more in control--therefore more relaxed--



Just proves, what works for one may not work for everybody.

I had to put quite a lot of shoulder/arm input to counter my slow right turn which meant it was almost imposible for me to add more to turn left. My 'sod the turn just relax and enjoy' attitude stopped the turn and proved it must be my legs as my arm were in the normal position.

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Let's put it this way: I was definately NOT a "natural" at freefall



A hardwood door could arch better that I did on my early freefalls but thanks to the more experienced jumpers at my local DZ I got the right advise to help me (and some that didn't but thanks anyway).


Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

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Let's put it this way: I was definately NOT a "natural" at freefall, but I WAS highly motivated--failure was not an option.;)



Ditto on that! B|

Actually, ditto on your whole post. Except, I never was thinking "Wow! That is soooo cool." Instead, I was thinking, "Hmph. That's strange. How the hell did I get upside down? Shit." [<--Think Dr. Evil after exhausting his list of ways to blackmail the world for money.]

I have zero idea if my instructors were miffed at me or not...if they were, they sure didn't show it. I'm guessing it was just another day in the life of an AFF-I.

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...AND NOW, THE STARTLING CONCLUSION...



I'm thrilled to report that the windtunnel was a HUGE help for me! HUGE, HUGE, HUGE. I did 15 minutes, and by the end I was leaping into the tunnel with a big smile on my face, doing 360's, moving forward, moving backward, up, down, all on command. It totally boosted my confidence. Five days later I did my AFF 3 jump again and it went perfect! It was definitely my most enjoyable jump yet. (Well, I ate shit on the landing, but that's not really concerning me too much...I'll land the next one on my feet. ;)) And between the tunnel time and this jump I can skip on to AFF 5 for my next jump. Woo-hoo!

I wanna say "thanx" to everyone who gave me advice in regards to my post here. I really appreciated what everyone had to say! So: "Thanx!"

I sooooooo can't wait until my next jump! :)
~nerd

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